Red diesel consultation ends 30/10/2020

[OldGoat]

In July HMRC issued a consultation document on the virtual extinction of uses for MGO - Red diesel fuel.

Comments / sugestions / why were invited

The consultation closes at the end of October.

Even if you are happy to pay the full rate of Road Fuel Duty on your boating needs. I am seriously concerned that many current suppliers will stop selling fuel because of the risk of theft of 'white diesel' from their tanks as most are insecure. Even if they are content with the risk, I suggest that in order to remain viable the price of fuel for boaters will rise well beyond roadside / supermarket prices because supplying fuel to them in small quantities will be a lot more expensive.

A solution might be to continue selling MGO to boaters - but charging the full road fuel duty as a base less  the 60/40 allowance that HMRC seem to be happy with in their consultation document

 

If you agree with the above - or have alternatives please, please respond to the consultation (as people say) NOW

The link is:-

https://www.gov.uk/government/consultations/consultation-on-reforms-to-the-tax-treatment-of-red-diesel-and-other-rebated-fuels

 

 

[Tracy D'arth]

I would gladly but I don't do MS Word.

[alias]

10 minutes ago, Tracy D'arth said:

I would gladly but I don't do MS Word.

Many freeware programmes can open and edit .docx files, e.g. LibreOffice: https://www.libreoffice.org/download/download/.

[Martin Nicholas]

https://www.howtogeek.com/304622/what-is-a-.docx-file-and-how-is-it-different-from-a-.doc-file-in-microsoft-word/

 

Quote

DOC is a document format used by Microsoft Word, while DOCX is its successor. Both are relatively open, but DOCX is more efficient and creates smaller, less corruptable [sic] files . If given the choice, use DOCX. DOC is only necessary if the file will be used by pre-2007 versions of Word.

 

[Tracy D'arth]

Got that, tried that, won't fill the tick boxes, and only saves gibberish. Waste too much time already.

If the daft thing can't be in a format that most can use, sod it.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

Isn't the reality of 'consultations' that the powers that be have already decided what they are going to do. They organise a 'consultation' purely to give the illusion of an element of democracy.

 

Am I overly cynical? 

[Martin Nicholas]

I'm sure they'll accept replies in plain text.

[OldGoat]

IMHO the budget  from the Treasury is so tiny that staff can only use the-day-before-yesterday's software. Hence the DOC format....

[Martin Nicholas]

59 minutes ago, Martin Nicholas said:

I'm sure they'll accept replies in plain text.

... And in writing

Here's the thing in plain text:
https://www.mgn.org.uk/pub/Red_diesel_consultation_submission_form.txt

Edited August 29, 2020 by Martin Nicholas
Yet more helpful.

[David Schweizer]

I opened then questionaire  byt didn't get as far as completingm it as a banner came up at the top of the page advising me that it had come from an unsafe source.

[OldGoat]

21 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I opened then questionaire  byt didn't get as far as completingm it as a banner came up at the top of the page advising me that it had come from an unsafe source.

A caution - not a prohibition - my machine hasn't been attacked yet....

[David Schweizer]

20 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

A caution - not a prohibition - my machine hasn't been attacked yet....

I am sure you are correct, but why does a site sponsored by the Government raise these issues when the vast majority of sites do not?

[OldGoat]

10 minutes ago, David Schweizer said:

I am sure you are correct, but why does a site sponsored by the Government raise these issues when the vast majority of sites do not?

Dunno - I assumed it's because it was all text rather than a 'proper web page'

[Sea Dog]

How come this was always cited as being forced on the UK by the EU and was something even HMRC fought against, and now we're no longer in the EU, so they can no longer be the ones pushing it, it's not gone away?

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, Sea Dog said:

How come this was always cited as being forced on the UK by the EU and was something even HMRC fought against, and now we're no longer in the EU, so they can no longer be the ones pushing it, it's not gone away?

 

Could it be down to the fact that 'a previous Prime Minister' agreed that despite leaving, everything that was already in UK law would remain 'as is' and would be reviewed as time passed.

[The Welsh Cruiser]

5 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

How come this was always cited as being forced on the UK by the EU and was something even HMRC fought against, and now we're no longer in the EU, so they can no longer be the ones pushing it, it's not gone away?

My best guess is that the government is in ever increasing debt, as we know. As long as it is unprepared to raise income tax (political suicide) it must therefore maximise receipts from tax from potential new sources. This is one of them. The EU seeded the idea, the government wasn't particularly interested at the time. Times have now changed.

[alias]

1 hour ago, Sea Dog said:

How come this was always cited as being forced on the UK by the EU and was something even HMRC fought against, and now we're no longer in the EU, so they can no longer be the ones pushing it, it's not gone away?

It is one of the many pieces of EC legislation to be enacted in UK legislation during the transition period as a result of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. 

[Machpoint005]

...meaning that all the kerfuffle about stopping the EU imposing its laws upon us was just xenophobic twaddle. We have left (we are told) but suddenly everything is just the same as it was!

 

 

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

 

Could it be down to the fact that 'a previous Prime Minister' agreed that despite leaving, everything that was already in UK law would remain 'as is' and would be reviewed as time passed.

 

Yes, and it is being reviewed, and it is being left alone. See above.

[Bewildered]

I just don’t get why we have to pay road duty rates when we clearly aren’t using roads. I feel we should counter with all cars need to buy a boat license ?

[Alan de Enfield]

47 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

...meaning that all the kerfuffle about stopping the EU imposing its laws upon us was just xenophobic twaddle. We have left (we are told) but suddenly everything is just the same as it was!

 

 

 

Yes, and it is being reviewed, and it is being left alone. See above.

I can see nothing 'above' that says it is being reviewed and 'left alone'.

 

Are your referring to this ?

 

1 hour ago, peter n said:

It is one of the many pieces of EC legislation to be enacted in UK legislation during the transition period as a result of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018. 

 

[Machpoint005]

46 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I can see nothing 'above' that says it is being reviewed and 'left alone'.

 

Are your referring to this ?

 

 

 

"See above" -- ie about the xenophobic twaddle we were fed in 2016 ↓

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

>>We have left (we are told) but suddenly everything is just the same as it was!<<

 

52 minutes ago, Bewildered said:

I just don’t get why we have to pay road duty rates when we clearly aren’t using roads. I feel we should counter with all cars need to buy a boat license ?

 

It's not road duty, it's fuel duty. Does that answer your question?

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

1 hour ago, Bewildered said:

I just don’t get why we have to pay road duty rates when we clearly aren’t using roads. I feel we should counter with all cars need to buy a boat license ?

Its not been road tax as such for many years, it's just fuel duty now. Same as NI contributions are really just another income tax. It all goes into the same pot.

[OldGoat]

6 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

Its not been road tax as such for many years, it's just fuel duty now. Same as NI contributions are really just another income tax. It all goes into the same pot.

The consulaltion document states precisely that. The excuse is that it will make our boats greener (my joke).

I don't think there's much hope in retaining "Red" but the document refers to retaining the 60/40 split (how?) which might help the cost.

However I am concerned that if canalside fuel tanks are full of white diesel it will get stolen and dealers will just stop selling it.

Anyone want to take issue on that? 

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

However I am concerned that if canalside fuel tanks are full of white diesel it will get stolen and dealers will just stop selling it.

Anyone want to take issue on that? 

I imagine (in my opinion) that they will require installation of new tanks with improved security and it may well involve burying the tanks, which will involve a huge infrastructure cost, which will have to be recovered by adding 'extra pence' onto the price of fuel.

 

Canal side (and fuel boats) are going to be very VERY small buyers of diesel and will not get the discounts that the bigger groups, get (A brother in law ran / owned a petrol station and he used to 'make' 1p per litre) so they are disadvantaged straight away - I wouldn't be surprised if Tesco etc can sell fuel at a lower price than  XYZ Marina can buy it at.

 

Add in the 'infrastructure recovery costs' to the already expensive fuel and I can easily see £2 per litre.

 

A NB uses (maybe) 1.5 litres per hour, so a couple of 22 litre Jerry-Cans will probably last a couple of weeks - no reason not to go and fill the cans at the nearest garage at £1.20 / litre.

 

I very much doubt that the folks that want to save £2 or £3 a week will be those who will bother to buy proper de-canting equipment and we will see many more spills and rainbows in the canals.

[Machpoint005]

Perhaps your pals in Westminster could help by no longer applying VAT after the fuel duty has been levied (a tax on a tax)?