Shoreline or not?

[ditchcrawler]

45 minutes ago, Paul Gwilliams said:

Indeed, wind up "Meggers" were good especially on a long length of pyro, pug guns  and some of the old timers were sadists and got jollies out of tormenting apprentices. 

 

Didn't help if you we're a gobby apprentice like I was?. Still didn't affect me...... where's me tablets

 

However one bit of wisdom I still remember is that it doesn't help to get a shock every now and then, it just reminds you that it bites if you don't treat it with respect.

 

Happy to work on all sorts of mains installations, 12v still perplexes me and as for 240v on a tin tub on a muddy pond ? I've RCD'ed everything separately from feed to final circuit and as with the 12v every circuit will be separate with its own protection. 

 

 

It helped if you could connect the other megger lead to the metal  boot scraper grill just outside the door

[OldGoat]

1 hour ago, Glynn said:

Shorelines are just modified rebadged LEC's, so are a cheap fridge really as i understand it.

I have one,it's 'ok' but if/when ig faults I will replace it with a proper 240v mains fridge which are much better at their job.

Conceptually, yes - but Lec stopped supplying them some time ago (pity 'cos they were only around the corner from Shoreline), but the quality is similar. That not the problem with the cost because Shoreline still has to rip out the 240v compressor and modify the rest of the electrics and make a profit as well.

The 12v compressor is not made to be highly efficient and I guess the power cost of running a good quality mains fridge is less than a 12v unit.

The killer (if there is one) is that the inverter has to be on 24/7 just to wait for the fridge to run. You also need a 1200w inverter just to start the fridge up. Thus folks go for the easy route.....

Edited August 8, 2020 by OldGoat

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, OldGoat said:

Conceptually, yes - but Lec stopped supplying them some time ago (pity 'cos they were only around the corner from Shoreline), but the quality is similar. That not the problem with the cost because Shoreline still has to rip out the 240v compressor and modify the rest of the electrics and make a profit as well.

The 12v compressor is not made to be highly efficient and I guess the power cost of running a good quality mains fridge is less than a 12v unit.

The killer (if there is one) is that the inverter has to be on 24/7 just to wait for the fridge to run. You also need a 1200w inverter just to start the fridge up. Thus folks go for the easy route.....

When I was fitting Harnser LEC made a 12/24 volt fridge themselves which they sold direct to the public at a reasonable price, I didn't buy one as the warranty would have run out before I switched it on. 18 years ago they had stopped selling them to the public and only supplied one outlet in the UK. I will say no more

[OldGoat]

6 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

When I was fitting Harnser LEC made a 12/24 volt fridge themselves which they sold direct to the public at a reasonable price, I didn't buy one as the warranty would have run out before I switched it on. 18 years ago they had stopped selling them to the public and only supplied one outlet in the UK. I will say no more

Heavens that's older than my fridge / freezer with a 'genuine' Lec case (ugh) - but it still works, like many of us - with bits falling off and I have oceans of batteries on board.

 

I / we are daft enough to want a "proper" sized freezer compartment, tus we have a fridge/ freezer, four our G&T doncha' know, (after all we are near Henley Actually)

[ditchcrawler]

19 minutes ago, OldGoat said:

Heavens that's older than my fridge / freezer with a 'genuine' Lec case (ugh) - but it still works, like many of us - with bits falling off and I have oceans of batteries on board.

 

I / we are daft enough to want a "proper" sized freezer compartment, tus we have a fridge/ freezer, four our G&T doncha' know, (after all we are near Henley Actually)

I bought the cheapo LEC 240 volt one, the seal is knackered but I can't get another. I dont want a fridge with the condenser in the cabinet 

[OldGoat]

1 minute ago, ditchcrawler said:

I bought the cheapo LEC 240 volt one, the seal is knackered but I can't get another. I dont want a fridge with the condenser in the cabinet 

I had to stop and think for a minute - school 'A' level physics condenser? evaporator? Ah yes - I remember it well -

Fridges with  nasty bits of formwork are definitely not kosher nowdays - spoils the decor and attract dust -and -and SPIDERS...

 

I agree with you but did some furtling around and found that - in my garage 'laboratory' conditions that a modern fridge with case cooling (when done properly), hardly got warm at all - even whem loaded with lots of ice modules (whatever called). The only challenge is to make space at the sides rather than the rear of the fridge - because I wanted to put trays and other kitchen stuff that I knew The Management would want (and did.... "its only a thin one"...)

[GUMPY]

On 08/08/2020 at 15:50, cuthound said:

Happy days. ?

Back in time the company I was with used to have a lot of Phase Linear 700 audio power amps, which all had large capacitors. Favourite tricks were to charge loose capacitors up with 110v DC and either leave them lying about in the workshop or chuck them at people as the entered saying "catch". To this day 40 years later if someone lobs something at me and says catch I still take one step backwards and let the object fall.

[WotEver]

4 hours ago, Loddon said:

Back in time the company I was with used to have a lot of Phase Linear 700 audio power amps...

Oooh, I remember those

[Herdwick]

On 06/08/2020 at 19:45, Bee said:

Everything that you need can be done on 12 volt. Mains is really useful though and we make use of it whenever we can, we use it to charge batteries and overindulge in watching rubbish on the telly. We do not have a 240 volt 'system' on the boat, we just have a lead line that pokes in the wheelhouse door and plugs in to an ordinary battery charger. Others will no doubt think this is not good practice but ours is a simple and unsophisticated boat and in probably 12 years of wandering we have had no more than half a dozen very minor electrical problems. We have a 12 volt fridge that is a brilliant thing, last year we had temperatures of 43 deg. C in France but still had cold beer, snag is that it does use quite a lot of electric so we are careful how we use it, we also have a really cheap e bay inverter of just 300 (?) watts, this charges kindles, phones, cordless stuff and laptops. Electricity is always a problem on boats, making it and storing it so using it sparingly is a really good idea.

What kind of battery charger are you using?

 

We just bought our first boat and are still figuring it out. The previous owner didn’t seem to know much about how the electrics worked. Even though it has a shore power connection, he always ran the engine to recharge the leisure batteries. It is only a 35 foot Liverpool Boat with a 12v fridge being the only power draw when we leave the boat. Even when plugged into shore, the batteries are drained the next morning. So being plugged in is not keeping the batteries charged - there is 200 watts of solar, so each day of the sun comes out the fridge will kick on again. I suspect this constant battery draining has ruined the two leisure batteries.

 

There is only one double gang electrical outlet in the kitchen. Would I have to plug an extension lead into it and run through it the cabin to a battery charger that is connected to the leisure batteries?

 

The shore power pedestal at our slip at the marina doesn’t have a regular socket for an extension  lead - other than the big lead that plugs into the boat. Does that make sense?

[matty40s]

13 minutes ago, Herdwick said:

 Even when plugged into shore, the batteries are drained the next morning. So being plugged in is not keeping the batteries charged - there is 200 watts of solar, so each day of the sun comes out the fridge will kick on again. I suspect this constant battery draining has ruined the two leisure batteries.

 

There is only one double gang electrical outlet in the kitchen. Would I have to plug an extension lead into it and run through it the cabin to a battery charger that is connected to the leisure batteries?

 

The shore power pedestal at our slip at the marina doesn’t have a regular socket for an extension  lead - other than the big lead that plugs into the boat. Does that make sense?

It sounds like the shore power bollard isnt working, and the only time your fridge is running is when the solar passes enough 12v supply through the defunct battery bank to make it kick in.

Do you have an inverter?, what charger, and is there a switch near the shoreline inlet which has 1 - 0 -2 , you might need to switch this to get the shore power to make the charger work.

 

Whatever, sounds like you need new batteries, and finding out how to charge them properly before killing them as well.

[TheBiscuits]

37 minutes ago, Herdwick said:

So being plugged in is not keeping the batteries charged

 

Does your boat actually have a battery charger installed?  You shouldn't use a car one croc-clipped to the batteries, it should be a permanently installed one or it's a BSS failure point.

 

If you're not sure, posting some photos of "stuff" around the batteries should let us identify what you have.  Clear pictures of batteries / connections / switches / fuseboxes / consumer unit / gadgets if you do this please.

 

 

44 minutes ago, Herdwick said:

The shore power pedestal at our slip at the marina doesn’t have a regular socket for an extension  lead - other than the big lead that plugs into the boat. Does that make sense?

 

Yes.  You plug the boat in with the waterproof shorepower cable (covered round plug & socket), and then internally your boat should split this to other bits - through a small "fusebox" with an RCD and one or more breakers is the usual way - and then to "normal" domestic square pin 13A sockets around the boat.

[Herdwick]

27 minutes ago, matty40s said:

It sounds like the shore power bollard isnt working, and the only time your fridge is running is when the solar passes enough 12v supply through the defunct battery bank to make it kick in.

Do you have an inverter?, what charger, and is there a switch near the shoreline inlet which has 1 - 0 -2 , you might need to switch this to get the shore power to make the charger work.

 

Whatever, sounds like you need new batteries, and finding out how to charge them properly before killing them as well.

I don’t think there is an inverter or charger. This is my entire electrical set up. There is one mains double gang socket in the kitchen which does work when plugged into shore power, so I know it is getting power.

[TheBiscuits]

 

Right, that looks promising.

 

There appears to be 3 conduits connected to the consumer unit.  One in and two out at a guess, so where does the other "out" go to?  It seems to go into that wooden box - what's inside that?

 

Have you any photos of around the batteries themselves?

[Herdwick]

2 minutes ago, TheBiscuits said:

 

Right, that looks promising.

 

There appears to be 3 conduits connected to the consumer unit.  One in and two out at a guess, so where does the other "out" go to?  It seems to go into that wooden box - what's inside that?

 

Have you any photos of around the batteries themselves?

I haven’t opened the wooden box yet. Will do that next time we are at the boat and take pics. Will also get pics of batteries, etc next time. Thanks

[Graham Davis]

It would help if the photos were in focus.
What is the blue box?

[Herdwick]

1 minute ago, Graham Davis said:

It would help if the photos were in focus.
What is the blue box?

I’ll get better pics and more pics next time we are at the boat. The big blue box is the MPPT solar controller (probably the only thing that I know what it is and does).

[matty40s]

3 minutes ago, Graham Davis said:

It would help if the photos were in focus.
What is the blue box?

Look in focus to me Graham, stop drinking and watch the rugby, it's only half time, Wales havnt won yet.

[Graham Davis]

1 minute ago, Herdwick said:

I’ll get better pics and more pics next time we are at the boat. The big blue box is the MPPT solar controller (probably the only thing that I know what it is and does).

 

I suggest you also check what is inside the wooden box, and photo that. The more facts we can have the better the answer you will get.

1 minute ago, matty40s said:

Look in focus to me Graham, stop drinking and watch the rugby, it's only half time, Wales havnt won yet.

Must be my screen, but I can't read any of the type written stuff.
And we've just scored another penalty!

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Herdwick said:

It is only a 35 foot Liverpool Boat with a 12v fridge being the only power draw when we leave the boat.

Why do you leave the fridge on when you leave the boat? Fridges are hungry beasts, and if you have charging problems, leaving the fridge on is a sure fire way of knackering your batteries. And if you can't keep the batteries charged, you can't keep the fridge cold, and your food goes off anyway.