Marina South of Knowle?

[Richard T]

Came across this planning application whilst looking for something else. Submitted on 30 June was a planning application for a 140 berth marina at Grove Farm Knowle. Ref is 2009/1028 at Solihull.gov.uk. Hopefully this link will work to a plan of the proposalsLink.

It looks to be a well thought out scheme with good landscaping and an earth sheltered amenity block. There does not appear to be any proposals to have boat building, chandlery etc so it should not affect other local waterways businesses. There are no indications of residential moorings. I suspect that it might become a parking place for boats that only go out and cruise once a year!! Thinking about it it looks a decent place for a marina - close to Birmingham, the airport and M42. Is there a marina closer to the city centre?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Came across this planning application whilst looking for something else. Submitted on 30 June was a planning application for a 140 berth marina at Grove Farm Knowle. Ref is 2009/1028 at Solihull.gov.uk. Hopefully this link will work to a plan of the proposalsLink.

It looks to be a well thought out scheme with good landscaping and an earth sheltered amenity block. There does not appear to be any proposals to have boat building, chandlery etc so it should not affect other local waterways businesses. There are no indications of residential moorings. I suspect that it might become a parking place for boats that only go out and cruise once a year!! Thinking about it it looks a decent place for a marina - close to Birmingham, the airport and M42. Is there a marina closer to the city centre?

 

It seems that the area around Knowle Locks is being targeted by developers! The only development in the area with decision pending on BW's new marina website is at Stripes Hill Farm at the bottom of the locks:-

 

OUTLINE PLANNING APPLICATION WITH ALL MATTERS RESERVED WITH THE EXCEPTION OF ACCESS AND LAYOUT, FOR THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN OFF- LINE MARINA (200-225 BERTHS) AND ASSOCIATED DEVELOPMENT (INCLUDING CAR PARKING, SITE OFFICE, CHANDLERY AND TOILETS, SHOWERS, DRY DOCK AND SLIPWAY ) ADJACENT TO THE GRAND UNION CANAL AT KNOWLE LOCKS (RESUBMISSION OF 2008/697).

 

So how is it that this other application (above) is at a later stage and BW's New Marina Unit are unaware of it?

[Josher]

oops ...

 

Developers lose marina bid battle May 26 2011 Solihull News

 

DEVELOPERS have lost a long-running battle to build a 140-birth marina in Knowle. The project, off Jacobean Lane, had incensed residents, who had worries about noise, light pollution and loss of green belt land. Now campaigners are celebrating the news that the scheme has been dismissed by the Planning Inspectorate.

 

Developers, Grand Union Marine and Leisure Services Ltd, had lodged an appeal, after the plans were denied by Solihull Council. A three-day public inquiry was held in February, with the decision finally announced last week. In her report, planning inspector Claire Sherratt said she was not convinced that the marina was needed in the area.

“I am not persuaded that there is a pressing need at this time,” she said. “Future demand is less certain given the economic climate. “Whilst marina developments can act as a catalyst for regeneration, I do not find any support for regeneration needs in the surrounding area.”

 

Geoff Heaps, of nearby Wychwood Avenue, had been among those to speak out against the proposals. He said the news ended “three and a half years of uncertainty” - some 300 residents had signed a petition against the scheme. Meriden MP Caroline Spelman welcomed the decision, but was worried about the glut of similar applications.

 

Plans at Hockley Heath and Lowsonford have also been discussed in recent years. “I am extremely concerned that all the applications made are on green belt or rural land,” she added. British Waterways, who supported the scheme, warned that refusal would impact on the Grand Union Canal.

 

A separate application, at nearby Stripes Hill, has also gone to appeal, with a decision expected later this year.

[RLWP]

<snip>

 

Meriden MP Caroline Spelman welcomed the decision, but was worried about the glut of similar applications.

 

Plans at Hockley Heath and Lowsonford have also been discussed in recent years. “I am extremely concerned that all the applications made are on green belt or rural land,”

 

<snip>

 

Quite right too, they should build marinas on brown field sites. Oh wait, they're all going for housing these days

 

Richard

[Nine of Hearts]

That's odd, I though that the Knowle marina was a done deal. There's been a BW work boat at the bottom of Knowle locks for some time, I was assuming to knock through the entrance to said marina. Had they started work on this before permission had been granted? tsk tsk.

[paulcatchpole]

That's odd, I though that the Knowle marina was a done deal. There's been a BW work boat at the bottom of Knowle locks for some time, I was assuming to knock through the entrance to said marina. Had they started work on this before permission had been granted? tsk tsk.

 

I think the Stripes Hill one will probably gain approval via the national method.

 

Making the entrance, as you say, has been on the BW work plan for the last six months...

 

Personally, I'd like to see one of the four built, out of top-of-Lapworth, Lowsonford, top-of-Knowle or Stripes Hill - there's not a current nearby marina...

 

PC

[ymu]

But is there demand for more marinas in that area?

 

We travelled from Pelsall to Catherine de Barnes last June in glorious weather for 3 days cruising. We passed no services bar water/shopping/sewage (no fuel stops at all). We saw two other boats on the move and I remember only three places which had boats moored. We had weed problems most of the way until we hit the GU, at least in part because there are so few boats ripping them up.

 

Knowle wasn't exactly busy. We had a back injury to contend with by the time we arrived and one of the pubs said we were welcome to stay there as long as we needed to. There was one other boat also over-staying with the pub's blessing and no more than two that I saw stop there in several weeks (they had half a dozen or so spaces beside the garden).

 

I do agree that the area needs more boats. I'm just not sure that building a marina is going to magically supply them, which seems to be the planning officers objection.

 

They could start by not restricting all the decent moorings in that stretch to 1/24/48 hours. There'd be more boats there if people felt secure when moored, but the most secure moorings are highly restricted (and all but one completely empty, the other near empty, when we were there in a glorious June). They're so limited they're of little use to anyone except hit-and-run cruisers - but hit-and-run cruisers aren't going to be impressed by the weed problems ...

 

It's also a problem that it is so far between secure mooring spots. You can't always stop somewhere OK because it's getting dark and you have no reason to think that OK is just around the corner when you've not seen OK in two days on the move.

 

If they did the groundwork needed for getting more boats to the area, then a marina might be justified. It looks like a massively optimistic white elephant to me though. Especially when BW are having trouble letting on-line mooring spots in cheaper areas.

[john6767]

Not surprised the Jacobean Lane one has not gained approval. The Lawsonford one does not seem a great location either, it impacts on a small village, and the canal location puts in amongst a large number of locks, so increased boats will have a bigger impact.

I would hope that the Stripes Hill (bottom of Knowle locks) one would get the go ahead. To me that is a much more suitable location, not near housing, good road links, and the land is low lying wet land which is not great for agricultural use. The canal location gives access to a sizable pound from Knowle ot Hatton.

Living in the area I would say that there is a shortage or marinas, ie there are basically none of any significant size on the GU until Napton, and nothing on the Stratford at all.

[Nine of Hearts]

But is there demand for more marinas in that area?

 

Yes.

 

Alvechurch has (or at least had when I last looked) a two year waiting list. There are frequent requests on here from people asking for good places to moor commutable to Birmingham but in the loveliness of Warwickshire. And the absence of boats on that stretch doesn't suggest a lack of demand, I think you're putting the cart before the horse there. With no marina, there's no reason to go that far up the GU. The discerning would enter Birmingham via the Strat and B&W, it's easier and goes through better areas. Did you expect to see boats hovering up and down, like a swarm of dispossessed bees, waiting for somewhere to alight?

[paulcatchpole]

Yes.

 

Alvechurch has (or at least had when I last looked) a two year waiting list. There are frequent requests on here from people asking for good places to moor commutable to Birmingham but in the loveliness of Warwickshire. And the absence of boats on that stretch doesn't suggest a lack of demand, I think you're putting the cart before the horse there. With no marina, there's no reason to go that far up the GU. The discerning would enter Birmingham via the Strat and B&W, it's easier and goes through better areas. Did you expect to see boats hovering up and down, like a swarm of dispossessed bees, waiting for somewhere to alight?

 

I agree with you, both Kingswood junction (basin) and Lowsonford BW moorings are 100% full, as far as I know... I got the last one at Lowsonford...

 

PC

[Richard T]

Quite right too, they should build marinas on brown field sites. Oh wait, they're all going for housing these days

 

Richard

Just check facts before making comments - strangely enough the Jacobean Lane site is brown field although it doesn't look like it. The land was used as a spoil dump for the M42.

Having seen the drawings for both - and the knowledge to read and interpret them the Jacobean Lane site would have been far less visually obtrusive than Stipes Hill. Also the scope was much less and would have less impact on other canal related businesses.

[ymu]

Yes.

 

Alvechurch has (or at least had when I last looked) a two year waiting list. There are frequent requests on here from people asking for good places to moor commutable to Birmingham but in the loveliness of Warwickshire. And the absence of boats on that stretch doesn't suggest a lack of demand, I think you're putting the cart before the horse there. With no marina, there's no reason to go that far up the GU. The discerning would enter Birmingham via the Strat and B&W, it's easier and goes through better areas. Did you expect to see boats hovering up and down, like a swarm of dispossessed bees, waiting for somewhere to alight?

No. But neither did I expect dog-walkers to explain that their dog was going nuts because it had never seen a boat before. Nor two children to come darting out of their house screaming with incredulity because they'd never seen one before. I never thought I'd cruise for three days in a glorious June and see only two boats on the move. I never thought I'd see massive lengths of restricted moorings completely empty on a glorious day in June, and every prime mooring spot virtually empty if not completely empty.

 

Maybe we got unlucky with the route we were taking, but the amount of weed was unreal. We had to pole through some patches because there was no way to get moving before the propellor was clogged again.

 

And BW seem determined to make it as awkward as possible to use it. There aren't any CCers to keep the weeds down on that route because all the decent moorings have been restricted to 1/24/48 hours. We didn't see any casual moorers at all in that three days. A mooring warden did warn us that we had moored up in a 'dodgy area', but we had no choice. We needed to go away for 3-4 days and there weren't any secure moorings that would allow us to do that.

 

If there is a long waiting list for alvechurch, and that does translate to automatic demand in a similar area to the east rather than the south, then clearly it's feasible. But then I don't understand the planning officer's remarks as presumably that was part of the evidence submitted. I posted because what she said rang true to me, from what we experienced last summer. No effort being made to attract boaters.

 

How many people on a 2 year waiting list? Enough for a whole new marina? What proportion of boats would be expected to leave a typical marina in any one year? And are these figures austerity-adjusted, because BW can't sell 80% of its own moorings at the reserve prices they're setting, unadjusted from the boom years that inflated them.

[Allan(nb Albert)]

No. But neither did I expect dog-walkers to explain that their dog was going nuts because it had never seen a boat before. Nor two children to come darting out of their house screaming with incredulity because they'd never seen one before. I never thought I'd cruise for three days in a glorious June and see only two boats on the move. I never thought I'd see massive lengths of restricted moorings completely empty on a glorious day in June, and every prime mooring spot virtually empty if not completely empty.

 

Maybe we got unlucky with the route we were taking, but the amount of weed was unreal. We had to pole through some patches because there was no way to get moving before the propellor was clogged again.

 

And BW seem determined to make it as awkward as possible to use it. There aren't any CCers to keep the weeds down on that route because all the decent moorings have been restricted to 1/24/48 hours. We didn't see any casual moorers at all in that three days. A mooring warden did warn us that we had moored up in a 'dodgy area', but we had no choice. We needed to go away for 3-4 days and there weren't any secure moorings that would allow us to do that.

 

If there is a long waiting list for alvechurch, and that does translate to automatic demand in a similar area to the east rather than the south, then clearly it's feasible. But then I don't understand the planning officer's remarks as presumably that was part of the evidence submitted. I posted because what she said rang true to me, from what we experienced last summer. No effort being made to attract boaters.

 

How many people on a 2 year waiting list? Enough for a whole new marina? What proportion of boats would be expected to leave a typical marina in any one year? And are these figures austerity-adjusted, because BW can't sell 80% of its own moorings at the reserve prices they're setting, unadjusted from the boom years that inflated them.

 

The reason the Grove Farm/Jacobean Lane proposal was kicked out seems to be lack of demand nationally. The development, which was backed by BW, was justified by mooring demand based on 2007 figures. The planning inspector found that nationally well over 5,000 berths are now unused (over 15%).

 

Planning permission was granted some time ago for a small marina development about a mile south of Knowle Locks. It seems that this has been put on hold due to lack of demand.

 

The problem with the top part of the GU is that it can not compete with the northern Stratford as a pleasant route into Birmingham or out of Birmingham.

 

With regard to what is going on at the bottom of Knowle Locks you may wish to read this.

[Josher]

It's a no ...

 

Knowle marina plans rejected Birmingham Mail Oct 13 2011

 

PLANS for a marina in Knowle have been dismissed on appeal. Proposals for berths for 223 boats at Stripes Hill Farm, off the Warwick Road, were originally rejected by Solihull Council in December 2009, despite being recommended for approval by planning officers. It followed concerns over its impact on Green Belt land. A seven-day public inquiry took place in July, along with site visits in July and September, over the plans for the 393ft by 393ft basin but now the Planning Inspectorate has announced it has dismissed the appeal, saying it would damage the open countryside.

 

Planning inspector Elizabeth Hill said: “The proposed development would be harmful to the purposes of including land in the Green Belt, specifically encroachment into the countryside.” The proposal would have created a large artificial water body, which would be filled with a large number of brightly coloured boats moored to pontoons, parking areas for up to 106 vehicles, an access track, footpaths, an amenities building and a boat maintenance area. But Ms Hill said: “All of this development would have an adverse effect on the openness of the Green Belt, in developing land which is currently open.” She added: “Any benefits of the scheme would be to the users of the marina rather than having wider benefit.”

 

Developer Mehdi Modiri, of Somerville Homes Ltd, had said demand for boats were rising, but the appeal found this claim was not matched by the figures. The report added: “Considerations put forward in support of the proposal would not clearly outweigh the harm by inappropriateness, and any other harm, and would not amount to the very special circumstances necessary to justify the development.”

[Josher]

I think the Stripes Hill one will probably gain approval via the national method.

 

Making the entrance, as you say, has been on the BW work plan for the last six months...

 

Personally, I'd like to see one of the four built, out of top-of-Lapworth, Lowsonford, top-of-Knowle or Stripes Hill - there's not a current nearby marina...

 

PC

 

Another one bites the dust! Not sure any have been approved ... Warwick Courier

 

Plans to build a marina on green belt land are rejected Published on Monday 14 November 2011 08:00

 

PLANS to build a marina on the Grand Union Canal were rejected by the Warwick District Council planning committee on Wednesday night in the face of considerable public opposition. Well over 100 objections had been lodged to the application submitted over two years ago for an inland waterways marina on green belt land next to Sands Farm in Old Warwick Road, Lapworth. The public gallery was full for the meeting and there were several public speakers including the Lapworth and Hockley Heath parish councils and the agent of applicant Sands Farm (Hockley Heath).

 

Originally district council officers had recommended the marina for approval, but following the successful appeal of a similar application in the Solihull district they opted to change their stance. Among the written objections to the application was one from Jeremy Wright MP, citing the effect on the landscape and increased traffic it would cause, and former MP James Plaskitt.

 

Nearby resident Margaret Lane wrote objecting on the grounds of a “loss of fields and habitat”. She added: “The M40 junction is designed to protect Hockley Heath from traffic - this plan must produce more traffic and noise from services and users. Once planning is given the site no doubt will grow as the piece of land for development is huge.”

 

Representing the Local Residents Marina Opposition Group, Tony Pledger had objected on several grounds, mainly the size of the development on green belt land and the existing problems of flooding, and he added: “The proposal is, by far, the largest development ever faced by this community.”

 

Writing in support of the proposal British Waterways said: “We encourage marina development because there is a shortage of quality marina sites and boating has grown significantly in popularity. The marinas create employment and associated economic activity to the benefit of often rural communities.”

 

Chairman of the meeting Cllr George Illingworth said: “We refused it in line with the recommendation from the officers because of its inappropriateness in the green belt and the absence of any need to provide the exceptional circumstances required to justify development in the green belt.”

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Another one bites the dust! Not sure any have been approved ... Warwick Courier

 

Plans to build a marina on green belt land are rejected Published on Monday 14 November 2011 08:00

 

PLANS to build a marina on the Grand Union Canal were rejected by the Warwick District Council planning committee on Wednesday night in the face of considerable public opposition. Well over 100 objections had been lodged to the application submitted over two years ago for an inland waterways marina on green belt land next to Sands Farm in Old Warwick Road, Lapworth. The public gallery was full for the meeting and there were several public speakers including the Lapworth and Hockley Heath parish councils and the agent of applicant Sands Farm (Hockley Heath).

 

Originally district council officers had recommended the marina for approval, but following the successful appeal of a similar application in the Solihull district they opted to change their stance. Among the written objections to the application was one from Jeremy Wright MP, citing the effect on the landscape and increased traffic it would cause, and former MP James Plaskitt.

 

Nearby resident Margaret Lane wrote objecting on the grounds of a “loss of fields and habitat”. She added: “The M40 junction is designed to protect Hockley Heath from traffic - this plan must produce more traffic and noise from services and users. Once planning is given the site no doubt will grow as the piece of land for development is huge.”

 

Representing the Local Residents Marina Opposition Group, Tony Pledger had objected on several grounds, mainly the size of the development on green belt land and the existing problems of flooding, and he added: “The proposal is, by far, the largest development ever faced by this community.”

 

Writing in support of the proposal British Waterways said: “We encourage marina development because there is a shortage of quality marina sites and boating has grown significantly in popularity. The marinas create employment and associated economic activity to the benefit of often rural communities.”

 

Chairman of the meeting Cllr George Illingworth said: “We refused it in line with the recommendation from the officers because of its inappropriateness in the green belt and the absence of any need to provide the exceptional circumstances required to justify development in the green belt.”

 

Sands Farm is on the N. Stratford (close to Swallow Cruisers, Hockley Heath) not the GU.

 

Planning applications for two other marinas (Stripes Hill and Jacobean Lane) on the GU near Knowle Locks have already been been turned down. so that makes three in the area refused.

 

A fourth application (Bakers Lane) to the south of the Black Boy pub for a very small marina was granted but excavation has stalled and plant moved off site.

Edited November 14, 2011 by Allan(nb Albert)

[AJLintern]

Another marina which appears to already exist if you believe the wording and tense on their website: http://www.knowlelocksmarina.co.uk/home.html

At least in their 'Latest news' they admit that it hasn't passed the planning stage!

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Another marina which appears to already exist if you believe the wording and tense on their website: http://www.knowlelocksmarina.co.uk/home.html

At least in their 'Latest news' they admit that it hasn't passed the planning stage!

 

That is Stripes Hill. Planning permission was granted and then turned down on appeal-

 

Another marina rejected

[DaveG]

Caroline Spelman, MP for Meriden , has objected to a new marina close to her constituency claiming it will "disturb badger sets".

 

In the next week Mrs Spelman, in her capacity as Secretary of State for DEFRA, is expected to sign an order ...............permitting a major badger cull.

 

You couldn't make it up.

[Nine of Hearts]

Caroline Spelman, MP for Meriden , has objected to a new marina close to her constituency claiming it will "disturb badger sets".

 

In the next week Mrs Spelman, in her capacity as Secretary of State for DEFRA, is expected to sign an order ...............permitting a major badger cull.

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

This could make sense, in that if the marina goes ahead all the badgers will up sticks and move out, so she won't know where they are when the boys come round with the zyklon B-is-for-badger gas?

[Allan(nb Albert)]

Caroline Spelman, MP for Meriden , has objected to a new marina close to her constituency claiming it will "disturb badger sets".

 

In the next week Mrs Spelman, in her capacity as Secretary of State for DEFRA, is expected to sign an order ...............permitting a major badger cull.

 

You couldn't make it up.

 

.... but did you know of her interest in the diagonal lock?

[Victor Vectis]

I've just picked up this email from CaRT:

 

Notice Alert

Grand Union Canal
Location: Between Bridge 68 Bakers Lane Bridge to Bridge 69 Block Boy bridge, Grand Union Canal
Starts At: Bridge 68, Bakers Lane
Ends At: Bridge 69, Black Boy Bridge
Up Stream Winding Hole: Heronfield Winding Hole
Down Stream Winding Hole: Kingswood Junction Winding Hole

Friday 26 June 2020 08:00 until Saturday 31 October 2020 18:00

Type: Navigation Restriction
Reason: (Re)Construction

Original message:

Navigation restrictions apply during the construction of a new marina entrance at Bakers Lane in Knowle. This section of canal will become a controlled passage with a traffic light system in place. Please be prepared to wait for a few minutes and follow the light signals and instructions. Thank you for your co-operation and patience.

 

I seem to recall plans fro a marina there from a while back but I thought planning permission had been refused.

 

Anyone got any more information?

[john6767]

Yea, I saw that notice as well.

 

There was an application for a marina at the bottom of Knowle locks, on the offside, that did not get planning permission.

 

This looks to be the location that was excavated sometime ago and then just left uncompleted.

 

 

[Victor Vectis]

Yes. Answering my own question I had a look on the planning page of Solihull M.B.C's website.

Planning Application

Planning permission for a 223 berth off line marina plus associated development was refused, 21/12/2009.

 

I seem to remember some discussion a long time back about work having started before planning consent was granted.

 

I tend to think large marinas like the proposed are horrible, bleak, wind swept places but somewhere to buy diesel between Knowle Bottom and Hatton Top Locks (the five mile pound?) would not be a bad thing.

[Heartland]

The Knowle application was also discussed in 2011, I believe,. SDA has done some work on that Marina site. 

Edited June 10, 2020 by Heartland