Solar

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

 

I don't need a multimeter or another voltmeter, or a cheap multimeter, I want a system that has decent batteries, and I  will manage input and output in summer it should look after itself.

 

Without the 'tools' - how will you know if the 'system' is working , working efficiently or not working ?

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

There is the story of a Lithium upgrade here, https://derwent6.blogspot.com/2019/04/day-three-of-our-upgrade.html it all seems to be working fine now but not straightforward 

Thanks. Doesn't look overly complicated when it comes down to it, just not something I'm ready to spend large amounts of cash on at the minute. 

[LadyG]

1 minute ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Without the 'tools' - how will you know if the 'system' is working , working efficiently or not working ?

I have paid the electrician to set up the system, if both voltmeters keep going down and down, that tells me they are not being charged properly.

[Alan de Enfield]

Just now, LadyG said:

I have paid the electrician to set up the system, if both voltmeters keep going down and down, that tells me they are not being charged properly.

So you think that if both voltmeters keep going up and up that everything is OK ?

 

What about those ampy things are they relevant in the greater scheme of battery charging ?

[MtB]

12 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Is this for me?

I have no desire to buy things at £1.50 off  Ebay, there is enuff electrickery of that sort already.

We are simplifying the system, one day at a time.

I don't need a multimeter or another voltmeter, or a cheap multimeter, I want a system that has decent batteries, and I  will manage input and output in summer it should look after itself.

 

 

And how will you do that without a voltmeter or ammeter?

 

 

 

[LadyG]

17 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

So you think that if both voltmeters keep going up and up that everything is OK ?

 

What about those ampy things are they relevant in the greater scheme of battery charging ?

What ampy things, do you mean my chargers?

or do ypu want me to monitor the solar charger?

I think you might have guessed by now that all I know is not enuff to actually make any physical adjustments.

I can observe.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by LadyG

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I think you might have guessed by now that all I know is not enuff to actually make any physical adjustments.

I can observe.

In which case, you need the equipment to be able to observe.

 

You apparently do not have it and seemingly do not want to buy it.

[LadyG]

29 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

In which case, you need the equipment to be able to observe.

 

You apparently do not have it and seemingly do not want to buy it.

I can buy a decent multimeter for £20, what do I do then?

There are batteries all over the place.

I don't know how to instal equipment.

My electrician is really good, but limited experience of solar for liveaboard narrowboats

What I am saying, I have been on the boat for eight months, on shorepower. Solar puts power in on sunny days.

Since replacing batteries I don't have to use 20 ampere charger every day to get voltage showing on my round dial voltmeter from 11.5 to 12.4. I am a low user .. laptop, and fridge and kettle are on mains, I use two units per day. 

 

The question is, should I put my new panels on top of the old ones and replace the controller and the wiring. Saving me £700 but losing the old 240 watt solar. We don't know if the old system is a can of worms. It would look a lot tidier to put the new panels on top of the old ones. My electrician won't do anythig dodgy.

 

Edited March 8, 2020 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

3 minutes ago, LadyG said:

I can buy a decent multimeter for £20, what do I do then?

What I am saying, I have been on the boat for eight months, on shorepower.

Since replacing batteries I don't have to use 20 ampere charger every day to get voltage showing on my voltmeter from 11.5 to 12.4.

The question is, should I put my new panels on top of the old ones and replace the controller and the wiring.

 

If you are only charging to 12.4 volts and letting them drop to 11.5 they wont last very long

[Alan de Enfield]

1 minute ago, LadyG said:

Simce replacing batteries I don't have to use 20 ampere charger every day to get voltage showing on my voltmeter from 11.5 to 12.4

At 11.5 volts your battery will be dead in very short order and you will be buying new ones in a matter of weeks.

 

You need a :

 

A battery monitoring system (something like a BMV)

Something that shows voltage and amps going in & out of the batteries.

Something that shows current voltage and charging current (so you can determine when to stop charging.

 

It is also very helpful to have a DC Clamp meter for doing instantaneous checks.

 

5 minutes ago, LadyG said:

The question is, should I put my new panels on top of the old ones and replace the controller and the wiring.

 

 

I'd suggest that before worrying about that, you get a handle and understanding on how, what and when to manage and control your batteries.

[LadyG]

31 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

If you are only charging to 12.4 volts and letting them drop to 11.5 they wont last very long

No, that was the old batteries, they have been removed, the previous owner killed them, some might have been 10 years old.

I don't let my domestic bank go under 12.4 I put the 20 amp charger on for an hour if the Webasto has been on.

Edited March 8, 2020 by LadyG

[ditchcrawler]

1 hour ago, LadyG said:

No, that was the old batteries, they have been removed, the previous owner killed them, some might have been 10 years old.

I don't let my domestic bank go under 12.4 I put the 20 amp charger on for an hour if the Webasto has been on.

But are you fully charging them or just putting  back what you use and never getting above 75% fully charged, 20Ah is a long way short of fully charged

 

[RufusR]

I have just installed 5 new agm batteries and they do seem to charge much faster that my old flooded LA ones . When I put the gen on today though 3 stage victron charger they were in float and current at zero inside an hour . I also have solar which prob helped . I am worried this 4 hour plus regime to full charge will overcharge them as I am told this screws AGM’s . Am I doing the right thing turning off gen when float current is zero ? I still have a solar Input but charge controller light says bats are full . 

 

 

[Richard10002]

4 minutes ago, RufusR said:

I have just installed 5 new agm batteries and they do seem to charge much faster that my old flooded LA ones . When I put the gen on today though 3 stage victron charger they were in float and current at zero inside an hour . I also have solar which prob helped . I am worried this 4 hour plus regime to full charge will overcharge them as I am told this screws AGM’s . Am I doing the right thing turning off gen when float current is zero ? I still have a solar Input but charge controller light says bats are full . 

 

 

What is your float voltage?

[RufusR]

13.2 on solar controller , 13 to 13.1 on back panel ( this was fitted when new and I think it is out of calibration somewhat . 

[ditchcrawler]

14 minutes ago, RufusR said:

I have just installed 5 new agm batteries and they do seem to charge much faster that my old flooded LA ones . When I put the gen on today though 3 stage victron charger they were in float and current at zero inside an hour . I also have solar which prob helped . I am worried this 4 hour plus regime to full charge will overcharge them as I am told this screws AGM’s . Am I doing the right thing turning off gen when float current is zero ? I still have a solar Input but charge controller light says bats are full . 

 

 

What is the charge voltage and current just prior to going into float?

[RufusR]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

What is the charge voltage and current just prior to going into float?

14.4 and about 6A . Victron says 14.4 is right absorption voltage for these batteries. It then floats at about 13.6 for a hour at 3A and falls to zero current and 13.2 after that 

Currently it’s 13.2 and holding with 1A solar input  with solar charger indicating batteries are full as it’s stopped charging 

[LadyG]

5 hours ago, Rumsky said:

I'll see how these go and if they deteriorate further I will contact the manufacturer. Once these are knackered I'll probably just go back to cheapo lead acid until the lithium problem is solved or becomes simpler and more affordable. 

Ask them to replace or refund as they are not fit for purpose. Very annoying.

[Alan de Enfield]

7 minutes ago, LadyG said:

Ask them to replace or refund as they are not fit for purpose. Very annoying.

Good luck with that after using then for 18 months.

The guarantee will not cover for loss of capacity ONLY manufacturing faults (ie case splits etc)

[LadyG]

2 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

But are you fully charging them or just putting  back what you use and never getting above 75% fully charged, 20Ah is a long way short of fully charged

 

All winter  only had the water pump and the radio on 12 volt, everything else : laptop, lights,  fridge, kettle, tools, sewing machine are shorepower.

I have not used the Webasto or the shower very much,  not at all from August to February 14th.

The solar has been kicking in as the days lengthen.

I judge the SOC by the traffic lights and the voltmeter, 

Edited March 8, 2020 by LadyG

[LadyG]

7 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

you can get digital volt meters on ebay for about £1-50 a time, they may not be as good as a fluke meter for accuracy but they will tell the difference between 14 and 16 volts. Doesn't the smart meter have a voltage reading as well as percentage? not ever having one I don't know

Do you have a hand held meter where you could check the voltage while charging on the battery terminals

If I want to check battery voltage, I thought I had to turn off charger and let them rest.

The electrician is happy with the batteries, and my charge regime. There is such a lot to discuss, designing a better system, without ripping everything out. He is happy to provide ongoing advice and support.

[WotEver]

2 hours ago, RufusR said:

14.4 and about 6A

That’s good. About 1% of capacity means nearasdammit 100% SoC. 

[cuthound]

10 hours ago, jddevel said:

What are the views of those who advocate electric propulsion regarding battery maintenance especially if no landline mains connection available? 

 

I would advocate a cruising range of not more than 50 metres and frequent battery replacement! ??

[Richard10002]

2 hours ago, LadyG said:

If I want to check battery voltage, I thought I had to turn off charger and let them rest.

The electrician is happy with the batteries, and my charge regime. There is such a lot to discuss, designing a better system, without ripping everything out. He is happy to provide ongoing advice and support.

In one of your previous posts, I thought he might not be as good as you want to believe, given that he knows little about solar. The fact that he won’t connect your big panels, and you are thinking of sticking them on top of your old ones, suggests that you need someone who knows about solar.

 

The way you talk about your batteries, it sounds like you are in need of the 1kw of solar that I think you have, and should get it all connected up ASAP, by someone who knows what they are doing - that doesn’t sound like your current electrician.... however good you think he is.

[LadyG]

14 hours ago, Richard10002 said:

In one of your previous posts, I thought he might not be as good as you want to believe, given that he knows little about solar. The fact that he won’t connect your big panels, and you are thinking of sticking them on top of your old ones, suggests that you need someone who knows about solar.

 

The way you talk about your batteries, it sounds like you are in need of the 1kw of solar that I think you have, and should get it all connected up ASAP, by someone who knows what they are doing - that doesn’t sound like your current electrician.... however good you think he is.

He is not an expert in solar on NBs in UK.

He is, however an internationally respected electrical and electronics engineer, RYA examiner and all the rest of it. There will probably not be another person with his experience, other than Gibbo. ..... 

I am not easily impressed, he is willing to instal whatever I want, but very few of us have an unlimited budget.

 I want best result for my money, I have pretty much spent up my budget on electrical essentials. Also, I would accept a bit less solar if it looks so much better. My original plan was to get rid of the old solar anyway.

I am thinking about connecting a portable solar panel through the  existing small controller but using waterproof connectors. I could point it at the winter sun.

I came up with the idea of using the existing panels and roof brackets myself!

It will look better, and I will propose the idea, see what he says. You have to be awre that he is never going to connect his electrics to anything that might catch fire.

 Solar panels are cheap, but they need to be fitted.

I bought a kit sans brackets, 2 x 275W with matching wiring and controller.

I bought 3 x 135 AGM, there are two others in the domestic bank.

I have done an audit, near enough my [unlimited] mains usage, though I do use marina washing machine. 

I might get one of these.

https://smile.amazon.co.uk/Battery-Monitor-Voltmeter-Motorhome-Lead-Acid/dp/B07CTKYFTG/ref=sr_1_2?keywords=battery+monitor&qid=1583752041&sr=8-2

I would like to get this

https://www.asap-supplies.com/victron-blue-smart-charger-122042022

I don't want the smart part, but it matches my invertor.

Edited March 9, 2020 by LadyG