Cheshire cat Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 (edited) I discovered yesterday that I have a diesel leak due to a split compression fitting. Unfortunately both ends of the pipe have olives on so I need a new pipe as well as a new compression connector The copper pipe appears to be 5mm od measured with a Vernier. Will it be anything special and does anyone know a supplier of small quantities Edited June 6, 2019 by Cheshire cat Spelling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 6 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said: I discovered yesterday that I have a diesel leak due to a split compression fitting. Unfortunately both ends of the pipe have olives on so I need a new pipe as well as a new compression connector The copper pipe appears to be 5mm od measured with a Vernier. Will it be anything special and does anyone know a supplier of small quantities I think Midland Chandlers at Preston Brooke would be a good bet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hider Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 Cut the olive off the broken end carefully with a hacksaw cut in line with the pipe. Do not cut into the pipe, stop sawing when there is a whisker of olive left. Stick a screwdriver in the cut and twist, the olive will open. Cut about 4mm off the end of the pipe so the new olive will be on a fresh bit of pipe. A new compression fitting and you are done. Don't over tighten the nuts, they split! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 What is the engine? Might give someone a clue as to if the pipe is imperial, or metric. For a pipe that small the paint thickness is significant. If you measured it as 5mm over paint, then the actual pipe outside diameter could be as small as 4mm, depending. Important for either getting a new pipe, or just an olive as per @hider's suggestion. Jen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire cat Posted June 6, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 The pipe is 5mm on bare metal I like the idea of cutting the olive off but it's not a normal olive shape. It's got a step in it so I might need a complete new coupling. It's 5mm to 8mm which desn't appear to be common. The engine is a Beta 33, I've owned it fr five years and not been anywhere near the fuel lines with a spanner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted June 6, 2019 Report Share Posted June 6, 2019 5mm will actually be imperial pipe, 5/16". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said: 5mm will actually be imperial pipe, 5/16". 3/16" actually. 3/16" compression fittings are common. The step in the olive may just be an artifact of it being over tightened, which lead to the nut splitting. A new 3/16" nut and conventional shape olive, sawing off the old olive could still be the easiest option, with a new bit of pipe and two olives and nuts option number two. Jen Edited June 7, 2019 by Jen-in-Wellies corrected 5/16 to 3/16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: 3/16" actually. 3/16" compression fittings are common. Oops yes you're right. 5/16" is near as dammit 8mm. 3/16" is close to 5mm but not that close. In my experience of Wade fittings however, the two are still fully compatible in that 5mm tube fits into 3/16" Wade fittings, and 3/16" tube fits into 5mm Wade compression fittings. A couple of things strike me though. Firstly 5mm tube is tiny and does not need much effort to tighten it so given that joint has been tightened to the point the nut split, the pipe inside must be heavily necked if it is copper and the olive deeply crushed (although not necessarily if a steel pipe). It must have been a problem joint in the past, prior to the nut splitting. Secondly the nut on all Wade fittings has a short un-flatted section, and the position of that section tells us whether it is a metric or an imperial fitting. The fitting in the photo is metric. Edited June 7, 2019 by Mike the Boilerman Add the pic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire cat Posted June 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 Thanks everyone. Given Mike's concerns about the pipe possibly being crushed I decided to go back to Beta. They have the part in stock. Not cheap but it should be straight swap out. The olives used aren't the common ones. The step is clearly there by design. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 3 hours ago, Cheshire cat said: Thanks everyone. Given Mike's concerns about the pipe possibly being crushed I decided to go back to Beta. They have the part in stock. Not cheap but it should be straight swap out. The olives used aren't the common ones. The step is clearly there by design. I've not got any of the crossword clues yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LEO Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 17 hours ago, Cheshire cat said: I discovered yesterday that I have a diesel leak due to a split compression fitting. Unfortunately both ends of the pipe have olives on so I need a new pipe as well as a new compression connector The copper pipe appears to be 5mm od measured with a Vernier. Will it be anything special and does anyone know a supplier of small quantities Hi, looking at the picture it looks as though someone has over tightened the fitting, splitting the nut. Take care when replacing the damaged fitting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire cat Posted June 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 It's a mystery Leo. We have owned the boat almost five years and during that time I've changed oil, antifreeze and filters but left everything else alone other than degreasing the whole engine bay. The olives look like they would need a lot of torque before they would deform. I am probably over cautious but I'm always wary of stripping threads. I've not seen a union nut split before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 I'd say it was over tightened in the first place, the pipe probably not properly square on to the fitting either which put stress on the nut and vibration eventually split it. I dealt with a split nut leaking on the fuel pipe fiting to the shut off tap on a fuel tank on a nearly new boat a while ago, no vibration but the pipe was under sideways stress, I bent it to be a nice easy square on fit. I don't like that curly leak off pipe, curve too close to the nut. I'd use a new length of pipe and re-route it with gentle curves with a good inch of straight pipe where it couples to a fitting. Is the other end where that pipe joins the flexible hose just flopping about or is it cleated down? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire cat Posted June 7, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 The other end was fastened down using tie wraps. I shall make sure the new one goes on square. I haven't got any control over the length but I can probably influence the positioning. Mind you if it lasts as long as this one did I probably won't care by then! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stegra Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 I believe this type of olive is known as a bite ring; used in hydraulics. They work differently to olives in that they form a bell shape on the end of the pipe. I can't find anything that small online but the link shows some larger ones. https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/search.html?searchTerm=Bite+rings+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bizzard Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 24 minutes ago, Cheshire cat said: The other end was fastened down using tie wraps. I shall make sure the new one goes on square. I haven't got any control over the length but I can probably influence the positioning. Mind you if it lasts as long as this one did I probably won't care by then! If you need to bend it a bit to get a nice square and stress free fit it might still be maleable ''soft''. If not heat it over the gas stove to almost blood red, let it cool, it will them be maleable and bend easily with the fingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 2 minutes ago, stegra said: I believe this type of olive is known as a bite ring; used in hydraulics. They work differently to olives in that they form a bell shape on the end of the pipe. I can't find anything that small online but the link shows some larger ones. https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/search.html?searchTerm=Bite+rings+ Every day is a school day. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted June 7, 2019 Report Share Posted June 7, 2019 6 hours ago, stegra said: I believe this type of olive is known as a bite ring; used in hydraulics. They work differently to olives in that they form a bell shape on the end of the pipe. I can't find anything that small online but the link shows some larger ones. https://uk.rs-online.com/mobile/search.html?searchTerm=Bite+rings+ Me too, same as Jen. Never heard of these, thanks!! Shockingly expensive, some of the sizes. A 25mm bite ring for example is £1,639 according to your link... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 7 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Shockingly expensive, some of the sizes. A 25mm bite ring for example is £1,639 according to your link... ? Well RS stuff always was a bit on the dear side. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slim Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 Something of an aside but still olive related. Some years ago I had a troublesome and persistent diesel leak on the inlet pipe to my CAV DPA pump (BMC 1.8). Couldn't cure it. Whilst buying some more 5/16" olives in a local diesel specialists I mentioned the problem to the person dealing with me. He produced some 'rubber' barrel olives " used on some Perkins". Instant fix Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keeping Up Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 21 hours ago, Jen-in-Wellies said: I've not got any of the crossword clues yet. 1 Across, opposable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GUMPY Posted June 8, 2019 Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 https://www.crosswordgiant.com/crossword-puzzle/136778/The-Times-Cryptic/Times-Cryptic-No-27371/2019-06-07 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire cat Posted June 8, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 8, 2019 The crossword is my wife's domain. It keeps her busy whilst I am on the forum(s) ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheshire cat Posted June 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2019 Well I got there in the end. The first attempt involved talking to Beta Marine and being sent an Injector pipe instead of the return pipe. I was passing Gloucester on Friday so called in and got the right bits. Using the tiller arm as a former I was able to bend the new pipe to the right shape onlt to discover that one of the new unions has the wrong thread. Both connectors are 8mm but clearly different pitch. Consequently I had to cut the olive of the flexi pipe so I could use the olive and connector supplied in the new kit. Eventually it all came together and so far no leaks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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