Diesel Vs Electric

[dor]

2 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

Biodiesel!!!! Not sure about that! When it was introduced 15 years ago, there was a lot of talk about biodiesel being worse for diesel bug .....not a problem for road vehicles but for low turnover fuel users ie Boats, there was concern.

At the end of the day, the price we pay for diesel will be at the whim of the government as we pay so much in tax. £0.20 at the refinery gate seems so attractive.

 

One of Trump's brilliant ideas was that all that "unused" rain forest in Brazil could be turned over to crops for biodiesel, making the US cars free from fossil fuels.

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said:

The UK taxation regime is such that an increase in refinery gate price means an increased tax take for HMRC.

Forecourt price = Refinery gate price + petroleum duty + VAT on the whole lot. Yes, a tax on a tax. Shocking isn't it!

 

The figures I could find were only for road fuel -- not sure how big "X" might be, but perhaps a figure between 1 and 5 (percent)?

This is for Australia but may be indicative (except we do a bit less mining)

 

[peterboat]

2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

well, they were the ones who got caught, but other manufacturers were doing it too, weren't they?

As Euro6-d temp proves nearly every diesel car produced was doing it!! Sad but true

1 hour ago, dmr said:

I suspect diesel could be available on the canals for some time yet. I predict public opinion will be a bigger issue, they already hate us because we don't pay poll tax, so our visibly smokey exhausts will then become a big target. If we have to go to particle filters, turbo chargers, common rail injection, and urine injection then we might decide that electricity is the better option. ?

 

..............Dave

None but the common rail injection will work on Narrowboats, engines dont run hard enough to make it work they require real heat

[zenataomm]

2 hours ago, dmr said:

 I predict public opinion will be a bigger issue, they already hate us because we don't pay poll tax.

 

Nobody pays Poll Tax. It was popular on and off between the 14th and 17th Centuries.  And then that megalomaniac Thatcher caused her own downfall with it in the 1990s.

If you're referring to Council tax, not everyone lives on their boat, and genuine cc'ers aren't in anyone place long enough to become eligible.  If you mean continuous moorers and those pretending not to live on their boat whilst on their mooring then I guess that is a grey area.  I also suppose the average member of the public is not aware and merely assumes that like a large lump of those not living a conventional lifestyle they're just of no fixed abode.

 

6 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

 

Biodiesel!!!! Not sure about that! When it was introduced 15 years ago, there was a lot of talk about biodiesel being worse for diesel bug .....not a problem for road vehicles but for low turnover fuel users ie Boats, there was concern.

At the end of the day, the price we pay for diesel will be at the whim of the government as we pay so much in tax. £0.20 at the refinery gate seems so attractive.

 

Cost wise I agree, however "When it was introduced 15 years ago" the first diesel type engines in the late Victorian times were designed solely to run on vegetable oil.  So it's only mineral oil based for the convenience of somebody.  Those with lakes of the stuff under their land probably.

 

I fully expect ICE to be clattering along for many more years to come.  Don't forget governments only make changes for their own convenience or to garner votes.  At the moment it's the latter. They're all chattering about stopping unpopular activities, but not coming up with working alternatives.

How are they going to create all of this extra electricity without burning something?  

Perhaps the generating stations will be powered by electricity!

[Chewbacka]

4 minutes ago, zenataomm said:

Nobody pays Poll Tax. It was popular on and off between the 14th and 17th Centuries.  And then that megalomaniac Thatcher caused her own downfall with it in the 1990s.

If you're referring to Council tax, not everyone lives on their boat, and genuine cc'ers aren't in anyone place long enough to become eligible.  If you mean continuous moorers and those pretending not to live on their boat whilst on their mooring then I guess that is a grey area.  I also suppose the average member of the public is not aware and merely assumes that like a large lump of those not living a conventional lifestyle they're just of no fixed abode.

 

Cost wise I agree, however "When it was introduced 15 years ago" the first diesel type engines in the late Victorian times were designed solely to run on vegetable oil.  So it's only mineral oil based for the convenience of somebody.  Those with lakes of the stuff under their land probably.

 

I fully expect ICE to be clattering along for many more years to come.  Don't forget governments only make changes for their own convenience or to garner votes.  At the moment it's the latter. They're all chattering about stopping unpopular activities, but not coming up with working alternatives.

How are they going to create all of this extra electricity without burning something?  

Perhaps the generating stations will be powered by electricity!

But public opinion is currently more concerned with city air pollution, hence the move to limit diesel vehicles entering city centres, wood burners being DEFRA approved and banning the sale of wood not ready to burn.  So to clean up city air is the priority, later (when London) is in danger of flooding will climate change move to the top of the 'things to put right' list, then we can worry about all the CO2 caused by sorting out city air.

 

As to boats, in a few years time I can see diesel boats in problem cities being banned unless they have emission controls (Euro 6) with an up to date test certificate showing that their emission controls are working.  Before then I can also see many city moorings being for 'smoke free boats' only, ie no solid fuel/diesel stoves running and no engine idling.  Be cold or be electric.........

[Machpoint005]

19 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

So to clean up city air is the priority, later (when London) is in danger of flooding will climate change move to the top of the 'things to put right' list, then we can worry about all the CO2 caused by sorting out city air.

 

Other cities are available.

[Chewbacka]

3 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Other cities are available.

Yep but the BBC and UK politicians only get agitated when it affects London - snow, storms, trains are late/cancelled, street protests etc etc

[Machpoint005]

24 minutes ago, Chewbacka said:

Yep but the BBC and UK politicians only get agitated when it affects London - snow, storms, trains are late/cancelled, street protests etc etc

 

Perhaps because Londoners moan about stuff whilst the residents of Northern cities just get on with life?

[Chewbacka]

3 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Perhaps because Londoners moan about stuff whilst the residents of Northern cities just get on with life?

That and their unshakable belief that they are all that matters in this country. 

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said:

 

Perhaps because Londoners moan about stuff whilst the residents of Northern cities just get on with life?

You should really feel sorry for them - they have to work 24/7 to be able to afford to live there (and only live there because they don't want their mates thinking they are failures) they have no life but can find a bit of time to moan.

 

Real people don't live 'in the smoke'.

Real people MAKE the smoke.

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

Nobody pays Poll Tax. It was popular on and off between the 14th and 17th Centuries.  And then that megalomaniac Thatcher caused her own downfall with it in the 1990s.

If you're referring to Council tax, not everyone lives on their boat, and genuine cc'ers aren't in anyone place long enough to become eligible.  If you mean continuous moorers and those pretending not to live on their boat whilst on their mooring then I guess that is a grey area.  I also suppose the average member of the public is not aware and merely assumes that like a large lump of those not living a conventional lifestyle they're just of no fixed abode.

 

Cost wise I agree, however "When it was introduced 15 years ago" the first diesel type engines in the late Victorian times were designed solely to run on vegetable oil.  So it's only mineral oil based for the convenience of somebody.  Those with lakes of the stuff under their land probably.

 

I fully expect ICE to be clattering along for many more years to come.  Don't forget governments only make changes for their own convenience or to garner votes.  At the moment it's the latter. They're all chattering about stopping unpopular activities, but not coming up with working alternatives.

How are they going to create all of this extra electricity without burning something?  

Perhaps the generating stations will be powered by electricity!

Everywhere I go I see wind turbines and more going up daily, I see them because I am aware, believe me burning things to make electric is the last option nowdays

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, Chewbacka said:

But public opinion is currently more concerned with city air pollution, hence the move to limit diesel vehicles entering city centres, wood burners being DEFRA approved and banning the sale of wood not ready to burn.  So to clean up city air is the priority, later (when London) is in danger of flooding will climate change move to the top of the 'things to put right' list, then we can worry about all the CO2 caused by sorting out city air.

 

As to boats, in a few years time I can see diesel boats in problem cities being banned unless they have emission controls (Euro 6) with an up to date test certificate showing that their emission controls are working.  Before then I can also see many city moorings being for 'smoke free boats' only, ie no solid fuel/diesel stoves running and no engine idling.  Be cold or be electric.........

I am sure all boats in Amsterdam are electric and also in Copenhagen in Denmark? which only goes to show it can be done,

On a different note my electric motor in the widebeam was fired up in anger today, didnt move anywhere but it was straining at the mooring ropes

[zenataomm]

48 minutes ago, peterboat said:

Everywhere I go I see wind turbines and more going up daily, I see them because I am aware, believe me burning things to make electric is the last option nowdays

Wind turbines 'less efficient than claimed'

Wind turbines are 25 per cent less effective than the renewable energy industry claims, according to research.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/renewableenergy/8236254/Wind-turbines-less-efficient-than-claimed.html

 

 

[peterboat]

1 hour ago, zenataomm said:

Wind turbines 'less efficient than claimed'

Wind turbines are 25 per cent less effective than the renewable energy industry claims, according to research.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/renewableenergy/8236254/Wind-turbines-less-efficient-than-claimed.html

 

 

2011? we have moved on from then the new turbines are very big in comparison to yesteryear. Looking at what is happening with nuclear expect a load more of them shortly, mostly offshore and with very big outputs. The great thing about them is if you dont need the lecce you can turn them off cant do that with owt else can you?

[ditchcrawler]

7 minutes ago, peterboat said:

2011? we have moved on from then the new turbines are very big in comparison to yesteryear. Looking at what is happening with nuclear expect a load more of them shortly, mostly offshore and with very big outputs. The great thing about them is if you dont need the lecce you can turn them off cant do that with owt else can you?

Trouble is for every Kw of wind or solar you need a Kw to back it up, No wind and the panels covered in snow means no electricity

[peterboat]

2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Trouble is for every Kw of wind or solar you need a Kw to back it up, No wind and the panels covered in snow means no electricity

We aint going to have it, cant see any of the planned Nuclear power stations coming to fruition can you?

[Momac]

8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Trouble is for every Kw of wind or solar you need a Kw to back it up, No wind and the panels covered in snow means no electricity

  kW  , not Kw

 

[ditchcrawler]

4 minutes ago, MartynG said:

  kW  , not Kw

 

Do I give a S***

[Alan de Enfield]

28 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said:

Do I give a S***

Wot ?

[Dr Bob]

8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Wot ?

a S***

 

 

eta...I would have guessed "single malt" but it has too many letters

Edited February 5, 2019 by Dr Bob

[Alan de Enfield]

5 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

a S***

 

 

eta...I would have guessed "single malt" but it has too many letters

No - Wots Watts or 1000s of watts (wots) 

[Dr Bob]

5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

No - Wots Watts or 1000s of watts (wots) 

I'd much prefer 30,000mgs of bruichladdich.

[Alan de Enfield]

3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

I'd much prefer 30,000mgs of bruichladdich.

30,000 Magnesium Sulphide ?

[Dr Bob]

2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

30,000 Magnesium Sulphide ?

No. Milligallons

[Alan de Enfield]

44 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

No. Milligallons

Wong forum

Mini-Galleons