dor Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Dr Bob said: Biodiesel!!!! Not sure about that! When it was introduced 15 years ago, there was a lot of talk about biodiesel being worse for diesel bug .....not a problem for road vehicles but for low turnover fuel users ie Boats, there was concern. At the end of the day, the price we pay for diesel will be at the whim of the government as we pay so much in tax. £0.20 at the refinery gate seems so attractive. One of Trump's brilliant ideas was that all that "unused" rain forest in Brazil could be turned over to crops for biodiesel, making the US cars free from fossil fuels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Machpoint005 said: The UK taxation regime is such that an increase in refinery gate price means an increased tax take for HMRC. Forecourt price = Refinery gate price + petroleum duty + VAT on the whole lot. Yes, a tax on a tax. Shocking isn't it! The figures I could find were only for road fuel -- not sure how big "X" might be, but perhaps a figure between 1 and 5 (percent)? This is for Australia but may be indicative (except we do a bit less mining) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, Machpoint005 said: well, they were the ones who got caught, but other manufacturers were doing it too, weren't they? As Euro6-d temp proves nearly every diesel car produced was doing it!! Sad but true 1 hour ago, dmr said: I suspect diesel could be available on the canals for some time yet. I predict public opinion will be a bigger issue, they already hate us because we don't pay poll tax, so our visibly smokey exhausts will then become a big target. If we have to go to particle filters, turbo chargers, common rail injection, and urine injection then we might decide that electricity is the better option. ? ..............Dave None but the common rail injection will work on Narrowboats, engines dont run hard enough to make it work they require real heat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 hours ago, dmr said: I predict public opinion will be a bigger issue, they already hate us because we don't pay poll tax. Nobody pays Poll Tax. It was popular on and off between the 14th and 17th Centuries. And then that megalomaniac Thatcher caused her own downfall with it in the 1990s. If you're referring to Council tax, not everyone lives on their boat, and genuine cc'ers aren't in anyone place long enough to become eligible. If you mean continuous moorers and those pretending not to live on their boat whilst on their mooring then I guess that is a grey area. I also suppose the average member of the public is not aware and merely assumes that like a large lump of those not living a conventional lifestyle they're just of no fixed abode. 6 hours ago, Dr Bob said: Biodiesel!!!! Not sure about that! When it was introduced 15 years ago, there was a lot of talk about biodiesel being worse for diesel bug .....not a problem for road vehicles but for low turnover fuel users ie Boats, there was concern. At the end of the day, the price we pay for diesel will be at the whim of the government as we pay so much in tax. £0.20 at the refinery gate seems so attractive. Cost wise I agree, however "When it was introduced 15 years ago" the first diesel type engines in the late Victorian times were designed solely to run on vegetable oil. So it's only mineral oil based for the convenience of somebody. Those with lakes of the stuff under their land probably. I fully expect ICE to be clattering along for many more years to come. Don't forget governments only make changes for their own convenience or to garner votes. At the moment it's the latter. They're all chattering about stopping unpopular activities, but not coming up with working alternatives. How are they going to create all of this extra electricity without burning something? Perhaps the generating stations will be powered by electricity! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, zenataomm said: Nobody pays Poll Tax. It was popular on and off between the 14th and 17th Centuries. And then that megalomaniac Thatcher caused her own downfall with it in the 1990s. If you're referring to Council tax, not everyone lives on their boat, and genuine cc'ers aren't in anyone place long enough to become eligible. If you mean continuous moorers and those pretending not to live on their boat whilst on their mooring then I guess that is a grey area. I also suppose the average member of the public is not aware and merely assumes that like a large lump of those not living a conventional lifestyle they're just of no fixed abode. Cost wise I agree, however "When it was introduced 15 years ago" the first diesel type engines in the late Victorian times were designed solely to run on vegetable oil. So it's only mineral oil based for the convenience of somebody. Those with lakes of the stuff under their land probably. I fully expect ICE to be clattering along for many more years to come. Don't forget governments only make changes for their own convenience or to garner votes. At the moment it's the latter. They're all chattering about stopping unpopular activities, but not coming up with working alternatives. How are they going to create all of this extra electricity without burning something? Perhaps the generating stations will be powered by electricity! But public opinion is currently more concerned with city air pollution, hence the move to limit diesel vehicles entering city centres, wood burners being DEFRA approved and banning the sale of wood not ready to burn. So to clean up city air is the priority, later (when London) is in danger of flooding will climate change move to the top of the 'things to put right' list, then we can worry about all the CO2 caused by sorting out city air. As to boats, in a few years time I can see diesel boats in problem cities being banned unless they have emission controls (Euro 6) with an up to date test certificate showing that their emission controls are working. Before then I can also see many city moorings being for 'smoke free boats' only, ie no solid fuel/diesel stoves running and no engine idling. Be cold or be electric......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 19 minutes ago, Chewbacka said: So to clean up city air is the priority, later (when London) is in danger of flooding will climate change move to the top of the 'things to put right' list, then we can worry about all the CO2 caused by sorting out city air. Other cities are available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said: Other cities are available. Yep but the BBC and UK politicians only get agitated when it affects London - snow, storms, trains are late/cancelled, street protests etc etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Machpoint005 Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 24 minutes ago, Chewbacka said: Yep but the BBC and UK politicians only get agitated when it affects London - snow, storms, trains are late/cancelled, street protests etc etc Perhaps because Londoners moan about stuff whilst the residents of Northern cities just get on with life? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewbacka Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said: Perhaps because Londoners moan about stuff whilst the residents of Northern cities just get on with life? That and their unshakable belief that they are all that matters in this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Machpoint005 said: Perhaps because Londoners moan about stuff whilst the residents of Northern cities just get on with life? You should really feel sorry for them - they have to work 24/7 to be able to afford to live there (and only live there because they don't want their mates thinking they are failures) they have no life but can find a bit of time to moan. Real people don't live 'in the smoke'. Real people MAKE the smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, zenataomm said: Nobody pays Poll Tax. It was popular on and off between the 14th and 17th Centuries. And then that megalomaniac Thatcher caused her own downfall with it in the 1990s. If you're referring to Council tax, not everyone lives on their boat, and genuine cc'ers aren't in anyone place long enough to become eligible. If you mean continuous moorers and those pretending not to live on their boat whilst on their mooring then I guess that is a grey area. I also suppose the average member of the public is not aware and merely assumes that like a large lump of those not living a conventional lifestyle they're just of no fixed abode. Cost wise I agree, however "When it was introduced 15 years ago" the first diesel type engines in the late Victorian times were designed solely to run on vegetable oil. So it's only mineral oil based for the convenience of somebody. Those with lakes of the stuff under their land probably. I fully expect ICE to be clattering along for many more years to come. Don't forget governments only make changes for their own convenience or to garner votes. At the moment it's the latter. They're all chattering about stopping unpopular activities, but not coming up with working alternatives. How are they going to create all of this extra electricity without burning something? Perhaps the generating stations will be powered by electricity! Everywhere I go I see wind turbines and more going up daily, I see them because I am aware, believe me burning things to make electric is the last option nowdays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, Chewbacka said: But public opinion is currently more concerned with city air pollution, hence the move to limit diesel vehicles entering city centres, wood burners being DEFRA approved and banning the sale of wood not ready to burn. So to clean up city air is the priority, later (when London) is in danger of flooding will climate change move to the top of the 'things to put right' list, then we can worry about all the CO2 caused by sorting out city air. As to boats, in a few years time I can see diesel boats in problem cities being banned unless they have emission controls (Euro 6) with an up to date test certificate showing that their emission controls are working. Before then I can also see many city moorings being for 'smoke free boats' only, ie no solid fuel/diesel stoves running and no engine idling. Be cold or be electric......... I am sure all boats in Amsterdam are electric and also in Copenhagen in Denmark? which only goes to show it can be done, On a different note my electric motor in the widebeam was fired up in anger today, didnt move anywhere but it was straining at the mooring ropes 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenataomm Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 48 minutes ago, peterboat said: Everywhere I go I see wind turbines and more going up daily, I see them because I am aware, believe me burning things to make electric is the last option nowdays Wind turbines 'less efficient than claimed' Wind turbines are 25 per cent less effective than the renewable energy industry claims, according to research. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/renewableenergy/8236254/Wind-turbines-less-efficient-than-claimed.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 1 hour ago, zenataomm said: Wind turbines 'less efficient than claimed' Wind turbines are 25 per cent less effective than the renewable energy industry claims, according to research. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/energy/renewableenergy/8236254/Wind-turbines-less-efficient-than-claimed.html 2011? we have moved on from then the new turbines are very big in comparison to yesteryear. Looking at what is happening with nuclear expect a load more of them shortly, mostly offshore and with very big outputs. The great thing about them is if you dont need the lecce you can turn them off cant do that with owt else can you? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 7 minutes ago, peterboat said: 2011? we have moved on from then the new turbines are very big in comparison to yesteryear. Looking at what is happening with nuclear expect a load more of them shortly, mostly offshore and with very big outputs. The great thing about them is if you dont need the lecce you can turn them off cant do that with owt else can you? Trouble is for every Kw of wind or solar you need a Kw to back it up, No wind and the panels covered in snow means no electricity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterboat Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Trouble is for every Kw of wind or solar you need a Kw to back it up, No wind and the panels covered in snow means no electricity We aint going to have it, cant see any of the planned Nuclear power stations coming to fruition can you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momac Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 8 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Trouble is for every Kw of wind or solar you need a Kw to back it up, No wind and the panels covered in snow means no electricity kW , not Kw 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ditchcrawler Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 4 minutes ago, MartynG said: kW , not Kw Do I give a S*** 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 28 minutes ago, ditchcrawler said: Do I give a S*** Wot ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Wot ? a S*** eta...I would have guessed "single malt" but it has too many letters Edited February 5, 2019 by Dr Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: a S*** eta...I would have guessed "single malt" but it has too many letters No - Wots Watts or 1000s of watts (wots) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 5 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: No - Wots Watts or 1000s of watts (wots) I'd much prefer 30,000mgs of bruichladdich. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 3 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: I'd much prefer 30,000mgs of bruichladdich. 30,000 Magnesium Sulphide ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bob Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 2 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: 30,000 Magnesium Sulphide ? No. Milligallons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted February 5, 2019 Report Share Posted February 5, 2019 44 minutes ago, Dr Bob said: No. Milligallons Wong forum Mini-Galleons 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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