Alan de Enfield Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 9 minutes ago, Tanglewood said: This is very true. The key differences between CRT and the brands you have mentioned are that with the exception of Nike, their logos bear more than a passing resemblance to their name they have a product that people buy, CRT has no product and, as far as I can see doesn't know what it is they want people to 'buy' in to CRT can only sell licenses Charities need logos that stand for the area they support, without copying them her, I bet we all know Red Cross, British Heart Foundation, National Trust, And guess what figures in Save the Children, Cats Protection, Dog's trust and Woodland Trust Maybe this fulfils the requirements : A CaRT is in the picture, and the the rest portrays the product on offer (a muddy ditch with insufficient water to float a boat) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgs Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 Why is anyone bothering. CRT don't listen, don't want to listen. They'll ride roughshod over boaters, because they can. Anyone got any ideas on how to make CRT take notice. Yes. But, every time it's mentioned, most of the support is for keeping a dodgy system that I'd like to see end. CRT can rely on boaters to scupper any incentive to break CRT's deaf ear strategy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted April 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 Here are two images of the old logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Laurence Hogg said: Here are two images of the old logo: Those are BW Transport logos. The BW logo was simply British Waterways Board and a wobbly blue wave (no 'life-ring') as per my post #74 Edited April 29, 2018 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanglewood Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 I think this is the logo that has all but been erased from digital history 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tanglewood said: I think this is the logo that has all but been erased from digital history That's the one - but - it was available without the word 'leisure'. I think suitable 'words' were added depending on the 'division' as necessary. (Leisure, Commercial, Engineering, Maintenance etc) A nice clean, simple logo that says who they are (and in this case the 'division' with which you are in communication with) Edited April 29, 2018 by Alan de Enfield Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Hogg Posted April 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 53 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Those are BW Transport logos. The BW logo was simply British Waterways Board and a wobbly blue wave (no 'life-ring') as per my post #74 Those logos are what was applied to the first BW hire boats built at Bradley yard. We have them on file due to having built models for the national boat show stand BW had at Earls Court. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horace42 Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 I am going to print a copy of the new logo and laminate it. Then carry it with us on our boat - probably displayed alongside my cruising license and mooring license. It will then be handy to use when we come across jammed paddles or lock gates or shallow moorings or any other obstacle holding us up - I will be able to wave the logo at it - and hey-presto with all the CRT weight and authority behind it - everything will immediately and miraculously burst into life and full working order. Now that can't be bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanglewood Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 43 minutes ago, Horace42 said: I am going to print a copy of the new logo and laminate it. Then carry it with us on our boat - probably displayed alongside my cruising license and mooring license. It will then be handy to use when we come across jammed paddles or lock gates or shallow moorings or any other obstacle holding us up - I will be able to wave the logo at it - and hey-presto with all the CRT weight and authority behind it - everything will immediately and miraculously burst into life and full working order. Now that can't be bad! mmm.... good luck with that - but with great power comes great responsibility, so I think that is a 'great' idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rusty69 Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 2 minutes ago, Tanglewood said: mmm.... good luck with that - but with great power comes great responsibility, so I think that is a 'great' idea. Only if your name is Peter Parker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tanglewood Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 55 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: That's the one - but - it was available without the word 'leisure'. I think suitable 'words' were added depending on the 'division' as necessary. (Leisure, Commercial, Engineering, Maintenance etc) A nice clean, simple logo that says who they are (and in this case the 'division' with which you are in communication with) Quite right - it was actually a brilliant symbol. But I probably only feel that because it was very familiar. Perhaps BW felt it suggested that if you were on a canal it was OK to make waves - which of course is not alright at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan(nb Albert) Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 3 hours ago, Tanglewood said: I think this is the logo that has all but been erased from digital history ... so much so that nobody has corrected it on Flags of the World -https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=british+waterways+logo&client=ubuntu&hs=Hcv&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi6tqe1p-DaAhVhDMAKHV-_AGcQ7AkIQQ&biw=1889&bih=925#imgrc=te0836xj53XDJM: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan(nb Albert) Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 On 27/04/2018 at 13:11, Alan de Enfield said: Donations = £2.9 million DEFRA Grant = £50 million Property = £46.9 million BWML = £8.1 million Charitable Income (whatever that means ?) = £31.3 million Obviously the BWML income can be disregarded for future calculations. These figures relate to gross income. Can you provide net income figures? To start you off - Donation Gross Income = £2.9 million Donation Expenditure = £3.7 million Donation Net Income = - £800,000 Put another way, C&RT spent £3.7m last year on charitable giving but only raised £2.9m - a loss of £800,000 Anyone want a stab at the net figure for Defra Grant, Property and BWML? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 29, 2018 Report Share Posted April 29, 2018 59 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said: Donation Expenditure = £3.7 million Howe on earth did they spend £3.7m on donation expenditure? That figure isn't credible at first sight. Do you have a source explaining it please? Many thanks. I'm sure you must have but it all seems a bit unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan(nb Albert) Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 6 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said: Howe on earth did they spend £3.7m on donation expenditure? That figure isn't credible at first sight. Do you have a source explaining it please? Many thanks. I'm sure you must have but it all seems a bit unlikely. The source is the latest annual report 2016/17 page 61 - CONSOLIDATED STATEMENT OF FINANCIAL ACTIVITIES FOR THE YEAR ENDED 31 MARCH 2017. You will see the gross income figure of £2.9m and expenditure figure of £3.7m. I'm not sure why you feel it unlikely - C&RT has always made a loss on voluntary income (i.e. donations and legacies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 Income and expenditure to raise quoted income : "Voluntary income" = Income £2.9m & Expenditure £3.7m "Boating Activities" = Income £44.7m & Expenditure = £11.5m "Utilities" = Income £27m & Expenditure = £2.8m "Managing Investments" = Income £46.9m & Expenditure £7.7m 9 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said: Anyone want a stab at the net figure for Defra Grant, Property and BWML? The BWML figures are unlikely to be a true representation. As part of a 'group' it is easy to make the figures 'fit the situation' eg BWML could be paying £ millions as a 'head office charge' making BWML lossmaking and able to offset some taxes. Divisional accounts are worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan(nb Albert) Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 13 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Income and expenditure to raise quoted income : "Voluntary income" = Income £2.9m & Expenditure £3.7m "Boating Activities" = Income £44.7m & Expenditure = £11.5m "Utilities" = Income £27m & Expenditure = £2.8m "Managing Investments" = Income £46.9m & Expenditure £7.7m The BWML figures are unlikely to be a true representation. As part of a 'group' it is easy to make the figures 'fit the situation' eg BWML could be paying £ millions as a 'head office charge' making BWML lossmaking and able to offset some taxes. Divisional accounts are worthless. It's not a division, it is a limited company with C&RT being the sole shareholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 2 minutes ago, Allan(nb Albert) said: It's not a division, it is a limited company with C&RT being the sole shareholder. The company I 'managed' was a limited company and was part of a larger limited company, the 'parent' company was the sole stockholder but each year my profits (around £10m on £55m t/o) were totally wiped out by transfer and head office charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grassman Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 How about while they are at it introducing an new logo they also change their name? ... to British Waterways ? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jen-in-Wellies Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 A CWDF post from five years in the future: Anyone seen the new CaRT logo? What is that supposed to be? I much prefer the current sinking tyre one. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0atman Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 Could we use British waterways now as with devolution Scotland and Wales have the right to use their country so Scottish Waterways etc. English Waterways is the way to go Bring all waterways under the same authority and have a logo competition for junior school children to design . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 4 hours ago, Allan(nb Albert) said: I'm not sure why you feel it unlikely - C&RT has always made a loss on voluntary income (i.e. donations and legacies). I feel it is unlikely only because I can't imagine how to spend £3.7m so fast on a few tents and posters. Maybe the lion's share is of it is paid out in salaries. Even so how many are on the books charged with fundraising that a wage bill of £3m gets racked up? (I am just wondering. Not challenging you or saying I think you are wrong.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Batty Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 21 hours ago, LadyG said: I assume the CEO set the initiative in motion and controlled the budget. All CEO's are expected to come up with new ideas, its what they do, why they are appointed. If they' re not "home grown", they move on, with a big pension boost and a golden goodbye. Its how things work. If they upset enough knowlegeable senior employees along the way, the organisation ends up full of new executives, new initiatives and complete loss of focus. I think we are nearly there. Any honest, half-decent designer should tell you that changing a company logo is a serious matter and shouldn't be done lightly. Depending on your marketing budget, it can take years to get the new logo recognised. If you change it too often, you run the risk of confusing people rather than establishing a new improved brand. 20 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said: The world's top recognised logos are : Nike, Apple, Coca-Cola and McDonalds - none of which bear any semblance to the products they offer. A logo is simply a 'badge' that is simple and recognisable it means 'nothing' other than a recognition of what is on offer The company needs to build a brand that is 'trustworthy, respectable and reliable' and then attach a logo to it such that whenever the logo is seen the 'customer' knows what they will get. ... All these companies should be considered 'special cases'. They are global entities who throw millions of pounds/dollars at television, radio, online advertising and have multiple promotional departments around the world developing different media campaigns in different languages targeting different groups. THAT'S why seeing a 'swoosh' or pair of golden arches (it could be almost any icon) triggers their brand in our minds. For more lowly players like CRT -- who dabble with pushing the brand through cheap and cheerful Facebook 'ads', stencil painting slogans on lock beams, and attempting to draw attention to themselves through don't-feed-ducks-bread campaigns -- I think a little visual reference to water and the green environment (even, heaven forbid, its industrial heritage) wouldn't go amiss. Just a thought. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jim Batty said: For more lowly players like CRT -- who dabble with pushing the brand through cheap and cheerful Facebook 'ads', stencil painting slogans on lock beams, and attempting to draw attention to themselves through don't-feed-ducks-bread campaigns -- I think a little visual reference to water and the green environment (even, heaven forbid, its industrial heritage) wouldn't go amiss. Completely agree - which is why I think either leave well alone, or, revert to the simple 'blue wave' of the old BW logo, or something stylised with text wrap around it (if they want to make it circular): Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Batty Posted April 30, 2018 Report Share Posted April 30, 2018 8 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said: Completely agree - which is why I think either leave well alone, or, revert to the simple 'blue wave' of the old BW logo, or something stylised with text wrap around it (if they want to make it circular): Nice, large front cabin windows! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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