Rusty old engine hole :(

[Richard10002]

Vactan or Fertan? and why?

[rusty69]

6 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Vactan or Fertan? and why?

Vactan - it's what the pope uses.

 

[WotEver]

14 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

Vactan or Fertan? and why?

I prefer Vactan because you simply paint it on, let it dry and paint over the top. It acts as a primer as well as a converter.

With Fertan you have to wash off the converted rust thereby not only introducing the one thing you don’t want - moisture - but also meaning that you have to thoroughly dry the site again prior to painting. 

Edited March 25, 2018 by WotEver

[Dr Bob]

16 minutes ago, WotEver said:

I prefer Vactan because you simply paint it on, let it dry and paint over the top. It acts as a primer as well as a converter.

With Fertan you have to wash off the converted rust thereby not only introducing the one thing you don’t want - moisture - but also meaning that you have to thoroughly dry the site again prior to painting. 

Fertan has worked very well on all the external rusty bits I did last year BUT I agree with tony that under the engine you dont want to introduce water again so Vactan has to be the best bet....but I have not tried it yet....that's a job for this year.

[Psycloud]

I performed this task last year as the whole of my engine bay was looking terrible.  I did it in August/September so that each process would dry in the sun...

• Removed all pipework, electrics, eberspacher, calorifier and any other furniture (greaser etc)
• Scraped loose rust with a scraper
• Used a grinder with a mixture of knotwheels, flap discs and carbide discs to remove as much rust as possible, back to shiny steel
• Degreased the entire area with Screwfix No-Nonsense degreaser then rinsed and wet/dry vacuum
• Used Aquasteel rust converter to get any rust I couldn't completely remove. Let this cure for a couple of days just to be sure
• Painted the whole area with 2 coats red oxide, then 2 coats of danboline
• Put all the pipework, calorifier, eberspacher etc back in place

Took me about weeks to complete this.

 

[Dr Bob]

1 minute ago, Psycloud said:

• Put all the pipework, calorifier, eberspacher etc back in place

Took me about weeks to complete this.

 

Dont keep us in suspense. How many weeks?

[WotEver]

2 minutes ago, Dr Bob said:

Dont keep us in suspense. How many weeks?

Oh... weeks. 

[Psycloud]

This photo shows it in various stages as I did it in sections so some parts are further along the process. For some reason I haven’t taken a finished photo which is a shame as looked lovely

 

[Alan de Enfield]

1 hour ago, Dr Bob said:

Dont keep us in suspense. How many weeks?

Could have been Honeysuckle Weeks.

[Nightwatch]

I've been buying Vactan from the manufacturers which I believe are in the east London area. Can't think of the place name at the moment.

Is there anywhere else to buy it?

[MtB]

10 minutes ago, Nightwatch said:

I've been buying Vactan from the manufacturers which I believe are in the east London area. Can't think of the place name at the moment.

Is there anywhere else to buy it?

 

Ebay. 

[Richard10002]

Quote

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VACTAN-RUST-CONVERTER-AND-PRIMER-1L-RUST-TREATMENT-5-50-shipping-option/122473698488?hash=item1c840054b8:g:JYIAAMXQoiJRgy7a

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Fertan-Rust-converter-1-Litre-Can/162816037341?epid=19017016261&hash=item25e89791dd:g:H14AAOSw6lRacqW7

 

[Nightwatch]

3 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

 

Same place then.

[WotEver]

4 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

Could have been Honeysuckle Weeks.

What a great sense of humour her parents must have had

Great name really though - most memorable. 

3 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Ebay. 

Bit cheaper from Paco 

http://www.paco-systems.co.uk/vactan/

[Alan de Enfield]

4 minutes ago, WotEver said:

What a great sense of humour her parents must have had

Great name really though - most memorable. 

And her younger siblings Perdita and Rollo.

She was engaged to the poet Anno Birkin and following his death eventually married Lorne Stormonth-Darling

The family must have a 'thing' for names.

 

 

[WotEver]

7 minutes ago, Alan de Enfield said:

She was engaged to the poet Anno Birkin and following his death eventually married Lorne Stormonth-Darling...

Who’s opening chat-up line was apparently “Would you like a pickled cockle?”

I’ve just discovered that her middle name is Hero!

[David Mack]

2 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

And her younger siblings Perdita and Rollo.

Sort of round, dark brown with a soft centre?

[Richard10002]

On 25/03/2018 at 10:29, WotEver said:

I prefer Vactan because you simply paint it on, let it dry and paint over the top. It acts as a primer as well as a converter.

With Fertan you have to wash off the converted rust thereby not only introducing the one thing you don’t want - moisture - but also meaning that you have to thoroughly dry the site again prior to painting. 

OK... I've painted Vactan on the bottom part of the bay. Can I now just buy some Grey Danboline and paint it straight on? or should I prime it with Yacht Primer before the Danboline?

If I either prime it, or want to do 2 coats of Danboline.... how on earth do I abrade it with 180-280 grade paper in an unreachable location? Or can I put a second coat of Danboline on the first coat without abrading provided it's within the overcoating period of a couple of days or so?

I'm not after perfection - "A good job today is better than a perfect job tomorrow"

If this works I'll do the whole of the bay in April or May or so

[rusty69]

10 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

OK... I've painted Vactan on the bottom part of the bay. Can I now just buy some Grey Danboline and paint it straight on? or should I prime it with Yacht Primer before the Danboline?

If I either prime it, or want to do 2 coats of Danboline.... how on earth do I abrade it with 180-280 grade paper in an unreachable location? Or can I put a second coat of Danboline on the first coat without abrading provided it's within the overcoating period of a couple of days or so?

I'm not after perfection - "A good job today is better than a perfect job tomorrow"

If this works I'll do the whole of the bay in April or May or so

The data sheet advises that the surface should be primed if the surface is in poor condition.

It doesn't suggest abrading is required between topcoats (but probably better to apply the second coat sooner rather than later),and also says 1-2 coats.

It also mentions a substrate temperature of 5 degrees c,so bear that in mind if you are painting steel that is in contact with water.

As always with painting.Success lays in the preparation,so if you have an unreachable location,you probably haven't prepared it well enough in that are.

Did ours last year in jotamastic.

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

The data sheet advises that the surface should be primed if the surface is in poor condition.

It doesn't suggest abrading is required between topcoats (but probably better to apply the second coat sooner rather than later),and also says 1-2 coats.

It also mentions a substrate temperature of 5 degrees c,so bear that in mind if you are painting steel that is in contact with water.

As always with painting.Success lays in the preparation,so if you have an unreachable location,you probably haven't prepared it well enough in that are.

Did ours last year in jotamastic.

Follow the danboline instuctions to the letter if you want a good job. Primers are designed to wet out the surface well so you get good adhesion. That will be the issue here so I would use a primer. Dont worry about abrading between coats as long as you dont leave too long in between.

The critical thing is going to be temperature. I dont like painting below 15°C. Any lower and you can hit the dew point which is the temp at which water will condense out onto a cold surface. Make sure your primer goes on when the temp is high enough, the top coats will be a little more forgiving as it is the primer that needs the full adhesion. April does not sound a good idea. The water temp is far too low. I need to do mine this year but will leave it until late July/August when the water is warmest. The paint cures better at higher temperatures but although the data sheets may give a minimum temperature, this is more about the dew point causing water on the surface at low temps.

[Richard10002]

See posts #1 and #43. I’m never going to get the bottom part of the bay properly prepared because I can’t get at it, and I’ve no intention of removing the engine :).

I like the sound of  Jotamastic but have always been wary of 2 part paint - mostly because it sounds complicated, but also because I tend to read that you can’t cover it with anything other than 2 part in the future.

I think I’ll gradually scrape off the surface rust in the rest of the bay, coat it with Vactan, and wait for warmer weather when the temp might be right for Danboline.

i guess my question in #43 was whether Vactan was good enough as a primer for Danboline?

[rusty69]

7 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

guess my question in #43 was whether Vactan was good enough as a primer for Danboline?

I would say,if you have any bare steel, you need a primer.

[WotEver]

8 minutes ago, Richard10002 said:

i guess my question in #43 was whether Vactan was good enough as a primer for Danboline?

Yes it is, but presumably there will be areas that won’t be Vactanned? If so those areas will need priming. 

[Richard10002]

OK!

 

Decided to use Craftmaster Paints. All Vactaned, 2 coats primer, 2 coats High abuild Undercoat, 2 coats Bilge Paint.

 

Looks good on the upper level, (swim?), and the drainage channels.

 

However, at the bottom of the hull on both sides, there is a point where the hull narrows to a sharp point, so it is really difficult to get paint in without a lot of forcing of the brush long handled brush. The upshot is that, for about 6 inches forward of the sharp point, the paint is too thick, and has remained soft, (not wet), for about a week. On one side it’s the second undercoat, and on the other it’s the 1st topcoat.

 

Hope that makes sense?

 

There is no way I can get at these parts to scrape it off, or whatever, so....

 

Should I leave both and hope they go hard over time, or are they destined to be forever soft? Could I break the soft surface with a long handled tool, such that the paint below might harden? The finish doesn’t matter, so it can be rough as old boots - it’s more to do with protection.

 

is there any point in overcoating these soft bits with the next coats.

 

If ever I had cause to remove the engine, it would be much easier to get at these parts, but I don’t see that happening in the foreseeable future.

 

Whatever this case, it looks a million times better than it did at the start of this process, so thanks to everyone for the advice!

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, Richard10002 said:

 

Should I leave both and hope they go hard over time, or are they destined to be forever soft? Could I break the soft surface with a long handled tool, such that the paint below might harden? The finish doesn’t matter, so it can be rough as old boots - it’s more to do with protection.

 

is there any point in overcoating these soft bits with the next coats.

 

 

Richard, are the bits with soft paint likely to get submerged with water for any extended period of time?

If the answer is no, I wouldnt worry too much about it. On the side with just primer, give it another week in this hot weather and then overcoat with one topcoat. On the side already with a topcoat, that should be ok. Maybe in 3 months time give both another coat of top coat.

Single pack paint needs two things cure properly. Firstly to get the solvent out. Secondly to allow air (or sometimes moisture for urethanes/silicones) into the coating to start the crosslinking. It is likely the solvent is trapped and that will leave the coating soft or 'cheesey'. In this weather, leave the engine cover off and blow hot air in with a fan and it will ultimately harden.

 

If the bits that are 'cheesey' are in areas where they will normally have water on them then it is best to sort this now. Either dig the stuff out or blow with hot air till it goes harder then cover with bilge paint.