generater

[blake2016]

Hi all,been on the boat now for over 3 years (liverboard) marina based, just bought myself a 2300 watt generater so i can get out of the marina more insted of waiting for the weekends to come around, i would like to move and stay out a couple of nights per week about 2miles from the marina and go to work from my canal mooring etc,i have found in the past that when i leave the marina for a overnight stop a mile or so from the marina my batteries run down within one day whilst mooring on the cut,my boat is most electric 240v tv fridge cooker etc,i know the inverter takes a big chuck of battery life so i try to use it very little also i switch the fridge to the lowest setting and only watch tv for around 2 hours a day,my batteries are 2 years old and are holding the charge fine.

so ive bought myself a generater so i can charge the batteries whilst not moving and use the hoover etc,what iam asking is how long would i need to run the gennie for to fully charge the batteries during the day,i have a sterling alternator to battery charger on board to which trickle feeds the battries whilst on shore line,thanks for the input.

[Alan de Enfield]

13 minutes ago, blake2016 said:

Hi all,been on the boat now for over 3 years (liverboard) marina based, just bought myself a 2300 watt generater so i can get out of the marina more insted of waiting for the weekends to come around, i would like to move and stay out a couple of nights per week about 2miles from the marina and go to work from my canal mooring etc,i have found in the past that when i leave the marina for a overnight stop a mile or so from the marina my batteries run down within one day whilst mooring on the cut,my boat is most electric 240v tv fridge cooker etc,i know the inverter takes a big chuck of battery life so i try to use it very little also i switch the fridge to the lowest setting and only watch tv for around 2 hours a day,my batteries are 2 years old and are holding the charge fine.

so ive bought myself a generater so i can charge the batteries whilst not moving and use the hoover etc,what iam asking is how long would i need to run the gennie for to fully charge the batteries during the day,i have a sterling alternator to battery charger on board to which trickle feeds the battries whilst on shore line,thanks for the input.

When you say 'run down in one day' at what voltage do they 'run down' to ?

How many, and what size, batteries do you have ?

What sort of generator is it ? (Suitcase or open-frame, petrol or diesel ?)

What size is your charger ?

Have you undertaken an electrical audit to sort out how much you use ?

If you are planning to run an electric cooker from the batteries then I suggest you forget moving and stay connected to a shoreline.

Once you know how much you use you can work out how much you need to put back in (usage +20%)

If you want an immediate answer I'd suggest a generator run time of 8 hours per day.

 

There are loads of guidelines about running a generator on a boat, but the bottom line is basically 'not advised'.

Run the generator on the bank and well away from the boat doors.

If there are any other boats / people about do not run the generator between 8pm and 8am.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Alan de Enfield

[mrsmelly]

Alan has bout covered it. My twopenneth is if you have a modern engine use that to charge from.

[Robbo]

This is like asking how long a piece of string is.

to give you an answer we need to know how much power your using per day and how large your charger is and what size batteries you have, etc.

 

however, I charge on average for roughly one hour per day (although I can go without charging for around 3 days) and around 7hrs for a full charge weekly.  Roughly it’s around 10hours a week in winter.  In summer if I had solar I wouldn’t need to run the genny at all.

[Tony Brooks]

This sounds as if a power audit was never undertaken so the charging & battery specifications have never been properly worked out for the OPs intended use.

Answer Alan's questions and do a power audit and put them here, then you might get an answer but it may involve more batteries as well.

[blake2016]

5x leisure batteries 1 starter,i would not use the cooker i use a camping stove instead,suitcase type of generater,havent a clue what voltage they run down to the inverter sounds a alarm to inform me the batteries are running low,i suppose its just trial and error looking forward to it though.

[mrsmelly]

8 minutes ago, blake2016 said:

 the inverter sounds a alarm to inform me the batteries are running low,

[Alan de Enfield]

2 minutes ago, blake2016 said:

5x leisure batteries 1 starter,i would not use the cooker i use a camping stove instead,suitcase type of generater,havent a clue what voltage they run down to the inverter sounds a alarm to inform me the batteries are running low,i suppose its just trial and error looking forward to it though.

OK - lets say 5x 110Ah batteries, assuming they are still 'ok' then that gives you 250Ah to 'play with' and will still be at 50% SoC.

At 50% charge the batteries should be showing about 12.2 volts

You say that 1 day 'flattens' the battery - is that flat as in 1 volt, 6 volts, 10 volts, 11 volts, 12 volts ?

The inverter alarm is often set at around 10 volts - if that is the case then your batteries are now knackered and are anything but OK and need replacing - however it is a waste of money replacing them until you work out how to live with them correctly.

You have been 'getting away with it' as you have been living of the landline - now you are on batteries it highlights the deficiencies in charging regime.

Read my 'signature' line below !!!

I'd suggest that it is critical that you do an audit as if you think your batteries are OK, using 250Ah (or more) in a day is quite excessive and 'not normal'. If the batteries are knackered and maybe only a total of (say) 200Ah remains then your usage is more in the 'normal' range of +/- 100Ah per day.

[MtB]

Getting to grips with batteries is a long and challenging road. 

The first step along this road is realising that monitoring the state of charge is not best done by waiting until the lights go dim or the inverter starts complaining, but is done by measuring the battery voltage accurately. 

Very accurately in fact. As a rule of thumb a fully charged battery (100% SoC) measures 12.7 volts and a totally flat battery (0%SoC) measures 10.5v. 

The next 'basic' to get a grip on is how disastrous for battery life it is to be in the habit of running them down flat. The next rule of thumb to get a grip on is never discharge them below 50%, or 12.1 volts.

Thats the very basics. I'm sure you will have questions, so feel free to fire away!

[blake2016]

Ref my battries i had them checked about a month ago all in good condition, thats what i cannot get my head around,when we go out in the summer months for the longer journeys there are no problems crusing for about 7 hours a day then stopping over a night or two every thing is fine,its just when we leave the marina  say about 10.am sail up the cut for about 2 miles stop over night the inverter alarm sounds about 5 am then i have to switch the inverter off and wait untill about 8am to start the engine to charge the battries,thanks all for the input.

[Bricksh]

11 minutes ago, blake2016 said:

Ref my battries i had them checked about a month ago all in good condition, thats what i cannot get my head around,when we go out in the summer months for the longer journeys there are no problems crusing for about 7 hours a day then stopping over a night or two every thing is fine,its just when we leave the marina  say about 10.am sail up the cut for about 2 miles stop over night the inverter alarm sounds about 5 am then i have to switch the inverter off and wait untill about 8am to start the engine to charge the battries,thanks all for the input.

Have you got something switched on like the immersion heater?

[AjW]

possibly inadequate wiring pulling the voltage down below the low V threshold for the inverter.  Get a multimeter on the batteries when the alarm sounds.  turn off the inverter, wait a couple of mins and then take another reading.  Let us know what you find.

[blake2016]

all electric items are off untill we moor up,then i switch the inverter on say about 15.00 hrs.

[Tony Brooks]

10 minutes ago, blake2016 said:

Ref my battries i had them checked about a month ago all in good condition, thats what i cannot get my head around,when we go out in the summer months for the longer journeys there are no problems crusing for about 7 hours a day then stopping over a night or two every thing is fine,its just when we leave the marina  say about 10.am sail up the cut for about 2 miles stop over night the inverter alarm sounds about 5 am then i have to switch the inverter off and wait untill about 8am to start the engine to charge the battries,thanks all for the input.

How?

I bet it was with some form of High Rate Discharge tester that was probably too small for the battery size. They will tell you if you have a problem cell but unless the batteries are really bad they do not give any indication of the sulphation. If you have been monitoring teh state of charge by using the inverter alarm that is probably set to below 12V for any length of time then I suspect your batteries are probably sulphated and only has a fraction of the capacity they had originally.

The only ways I would test boat domestic batteries would be with a hydrometer and voltmeter for open cells or by a long procedure involving a  charger and voltmeter for sealed cells.

I suspect the batteries are in trouble through neglect. You really ne equipment to monitor them.

[mrsmelly]

34 minutes ago, blake2016 said:

Ref my battries i had them checked about a month ago all in good condition, thats what i cannot get my head around,when we go out in the summer months for the longer journeys there are no problems crusing for about 7 hours a day then stopping over a night or two every thing is fine,its just when we leave the marina  say about 10.am sail up the cut for about 2 miles stop over night the inverter alarm sounds about 5 am then i have to switch the inverter off and wait untill about 8am to start the engine to charge the battries,thanks all for the input.

Tony has answered this way better than myself but do you mean they were checked and showing shall we say fully ish charged at 12.7 volts without any load? If so they may well still be so down on remaining capacity that after a few things are switched on the battery soon becomes empty so to speak. Remember if they were purchased as say 110 amp hour batteries they could easily be 50 amp hour batteries by now.

[nicknorman]

Your question was “how long does it take to fully charge my batteries” and the answer is perhaps 6-8 hours, maybe longer. However you probably don’t need to “fully” charge your batteries if you are just out for a few days. It would be OK to partially charge them because you would shortly be going back to the marina and shore power. However you don’t mention what size/sort of battery charger you have, if it’s a small one it could take a very long time with that fairly big generator running and not a huge amount of current going into the batteries.

Anyway, from the sound of it your batteries are low on capacity. I know you said you had them checked, but in reality it is very difficult to measure the capacity of batteries. The only way is to significant discharge them, measure how much charge is taken out, and check he state of charge at the end by some means such as the rested voltage or specific gravity. Most likely someone put a tester on designed for car batteries,  and that simply said the batteries weren’t completely knackered!

Electricity is invisible, battery capacity and state of charge are also not visible so if you want to have any idea what is going on, you really need proper monitoring equipment. If you repeatedly take the batteries down until the inverter beeps, you will rapidly knacker them (although it sounds like they are already knackered.

So get a battery monitor that at the very least shows the instantaneous current and voltage, learn how to use it and what it’s saying, and once you are happy, get new batteries and look after them!

[Victor Vectis]

Generators (NB spelling) are the work of the devil and should be destroyed.

Please don't moor anywhere near me when you are out and about and using the bl00dy thing.

 

 

[blake2016]

i would not moor within 20 miles radius of you with a attitude like that tit.

[Victor Vectis]

3 minutes ago, blake2016 said:

i would not moor within 20 miles radius of you with a attitude like that tit.

Suits me!

[MtB]

On 28/01/2018 at 18:40, blake2016 said:

i would not moor within 20 miles radius of you with a attitude like that tit.

 

So, rather than take on board all the good technical advice you've been given so far you chose to start name calling.

I can't see you lasting long here with your attitude. 

[sueb]

Generators are noisy antisocial things. 12v electricity and gas are the answer for boats unless you have solar.

[Robbo]

9 minutes ago, sueb said:

Generators are noisy antisocial things. 12v electricity and gas are the answer for boats unless you have solar.

Yes 12v electrons grow on trees as we all know!

 

Sorry but if your off-grid in winter then your more likely to be using an engine of some sort to produce electric.  Just take consideration of your neighbours when you do so from noise and fumes.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Robbo

[nicknorman]

Lots of people have generators. They can be antisocial but only if used inconsiderately. Many are no worse, or better, than running a noisy poorly silenced engine. Give the guy a break!

[MtB]

On 28/01/2018 at 19:57, sueb said:

Generators are noisy antisocial things. 12v electricity and gas are the answer for boats unless you have solar.

 

Never mind generators. A lot of boaters are noisy antisocial things....

[Drayke]

I’m on the K&A and have noticed that quite a lot of the generators, some on the bank side but mostly on the stern of boats, seem to be surprisingly fairly quiet, some of them being quite large generators.