Oil in Exhaust - Petter PH2W

[efish__]

There was an excessive amount of white smoke billowing from the exhaust stack today and it seems that oil or diesel (yellowy substance that turns to jelly when cold) is dripping down the actual exhaust pipe in the cabin. Oil pressure is good at 2.5bar. Could this be a head gasket or cylinder head? 

I also have a slight leak from where I recently refurbished the fuel pumps and a weep from the filter cap - could this be related (as in it could be excess diesel not burning off rather than oil?)

Any advice appreciated as always.

Thanks! 

 

 

[RLWP]

It's more likely to be the valve guides or at worst piston rings

Richard

[alan_fincher]

Although headed "oil in exhaust" I'm confused by " yellowy substance that turns to jelly when cold ".

That sounds to me like more than just oil getting past somewhere, and to be more likely to also contain coolant, (I believe this is a water cooled engine?).

Or am I wrong, but when we had lots of oil getting past rings, what puddled on the roof looked exactly like blackened oil, wit no yellowness or "jellyness"?

[efish__]

5 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Although headed "oil in exhaust" I'm confused by " yellowy substance that turns to jelly when cold ".

That sounds to me like more than just oil getting past somewhere, and to be more likely to also contain coolant, (I believe this is a water cooled engine?).

Or am I wrong, but when we had lots of oil getting past rings, what puddled on the roof looked exactly like blackened oil, wit no yellowness or "jellyness"?

We're raw water cooled - the residue on the roof from the exhaust is black on the top - is only a yellowish colour when it has dripped down and collected on the silencer. What would be other signs of oil getting past the rings? 

Thanks for your help!

[BWM]

33 minutes ago, efish__ said:

We're raw water cooled - the residue on the roof from the exhaust is black on the top - is only a yellowish colour when it has dripped down and collected on the silencer. What would be other signs of oil getting past the rings? 

Thanks for your help!

This was the result of less than two hours running with failed rings. I don't recollect any yellow residue, unless your cabin top was damp?

[alan_fincher]

51 minutes ago, BWM said:

This was the result of less than two hours running with failed rings. I don't recollect any yellow residue, unless your cabin top was damp?

Yep, that us what I'd expect, although mercifully ours never got close to that bad before it was fixed.

In our case the engine is air cooled, so the one thing we knew wasn't coming out the exhaust stack was water.

[BWM]

5 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

Yep, that us what I'd expect, although mercifully ours never got close to that bad before it was fixed.

In our case the engine is air cooled, so the one thing we knew wasn't coming out the exhaust stack was water.

This was after a fairly expensive 'rebuild', I believe that cheap, pattern rings of the wrong type were used-chrome rings with chrome liners.

[BEngo]

Chromed rings in chromed bores will never run-in properly, so  will certainly do that.  Strange though if it was done on the cheap because chromed rings (where they are available) are dearer than plain ones.

 

N

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, BEngo said:

Chromed rings in chromed bores will never run-in properly, so  will certainly do that.  Strange though if it was done on the cheap because chromed rings (where they are available) are dearer than plain ones.

 

N

 

It depends. We are having to be careful with JP pistons as new ones are supplied with chrome rings

[BWM]

2 hours ago, BEngo said:

Chromed rings in chromed bores will never run-in properly, so  will certainly do that.  Strange though if it was done on the cheap because chromed rings (where they are available) are dearer than plain ones.

 

N

It's difficult to fathom why it happened-it certainly wasn't a cost saving manoeuvre on my part, but above was the end result. I understand my engine wasn't the only recipient of an iffy set of rings.

[efish__]

3 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Yep, that us what I'd expect, although mercifully ours never got close to that bad before it was fixed.

In our case the engine is air cooled, so the one thing we knew wasn't coming out the exhaust stack was water.

4 hours ago, alan_fincher said:

Although headed "oil in exhaust" I'm confused by " yellowy substance that turns to jelly when cold ".

That sounds to me like more than just oil getting past somewhere, and to be more likely to also contain coolant, (I believe this is a water cooled engine?).

Or am I wrong, but when we had lots of oil getting past rings, what puddled on the roof looked exactly like blackened oil, wit no yellowness or "jellyness"?

Hmm.. well that looks a lot worse than we are experiencing. We're not getting any spitting across the top - it's just that it drips down the stack into the cabin. We moved today and the exhaust began to clear up a little by the time we moored up. Also it only happens when under load - does that suggest anything? She hasn't had a good run for a few months - any chance a few hours on a river would help clear it up or would that make things worse?

[David Schweizer]

We had oil in the exhaust on our boat and it was definitely the result of worn rings, but the residue was black, not yellow.

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, efish__ said:

Hmm.. well that looks a lot worse than we are experiencing. We're not getting any spitting across the top - it's just that it drips down the stack into the cabin. We moved today and the exhaust began to clear up a little by the time we moored up. Also it only happens when under load - does that suggest anything? She hasn't had a good run for a few months - any chance a few hours on a river would help clear it up or would that make things worse?

See how it goes the next time out before assuming the worst.

[BWM]

13 hours ago, efish__ said:

Hmm.. well that looks a lot worse than we are experiencing. We're not getting any spitting across the top - it's just that it drips down the stack into the cabin. We moved today and the exhaust began to clear up a little by the time we moored up. Also it only happens when under load - does that suggest anything? She hasn't had a good run for a few months - any chance a few hours on a river would help clear it up or would that make things worse?

Was the stack left uncovered at some point? Water could well have mixed with oily residue if allowed to get in.

[koukouvagia]

1 hour ago, BWM said:

Was the stack left uncovered at some point? Water could well have mixed with oily residue if allowed to get in.

A good point.  These pics show two symptoms mentioned by the OP viz. white smoke and oily exhaust.  It turned out to be nothing more sinister than sludge which had accumulated at the bottom of the exhaust pipe where it enters the manifold.  The cure was to belt through Blisworth tunnel to give the system a good old clear out.  After that the exhaust was as clean as the proverbial whistle.

photos Kathryn Doddington

Edited January 5, 2018 by koukouvagia

[Flyboy]

46 minutes ago, koukouvagia said:

A good point.  These pics show the two symptoms mentioned by the OP viz. white smoke and oily exhaust.  It turned out to be nothing more sinister than sludge which had accumulated at the bottom of the exhaust pipe where it enters the manifold.  The cure was to belt through Blisworth tunnel to give the system a good old clear out.  After that the exhaust was as clean as the proverbial whistle.

Ah yes ,this is what we used to do to diesel cars just before taking them in for MOT. A thrash down a dual carriageway or motorway used to work wonders for the emission test. It was known as an 'Italian Tune up'.

This equivalent of this technique is recommended by Barrus. In the manual it states that it is good practice that every 50 hrs to run the engine at full throttle in gear for 15 mins. Because most boat engines are over cooled it would clear any trapped carbon deposits. 

[efish__]

Okay I ran her up full revs for about 20 mins and the white smoke cleared out! However there was ALOT of steam coming from around the actual manifold and my exhaust wrap is actually wet (a little bit worrying). Could this be an issue with the exhaust manifold? Perhaps a crack in the cooling pipe - or is it just because sometimes I forget to put the cap back on and water and exhaust crud has collected in the exhaust bend. 

Finally - the cooling system was pumping out a huge amount of steam from the side of the boat along with the usual squirts of water.

Any ideas?

 

[Stilllearning]

16 minutes ago, efish__ said:

Okay I ran her up full revs for about 20 mins and the white smoke cleared out! However there was ALOT of steam coming from around the actual manifold and my exhaust wrap is actually wet (a little bit worrying). Could this be an issue with the exhaust manifold? Perhaps a crack in the cooling pipe - or is it just because sometimes I forget to put the cap back on and water and exhaust crud has collected in the exhaust bend. 

Finally - the cooling system was pumping out a huge amount of steam from the side of the boat along with the usual squirts of water.

Any ideas?

 

By “the usual squirts of water”, do you mean that the volume of raw water cooling does not seem to have changed over the past few months?

In the days when I ran an LPWS4 any steam in the raw water exhaust was an indication of a blocked inlet filter.

[BWM]

32 minutes ago, efish__ said:

Okay I ran her up full revs for about 20 mins and the white smoke cleared out! However there was ALOT of steam coming from around the actual manifold and my exhaust wrap is actually wet (a little bit worrying). Could this be an issue with the exhaust manifold? Perhaps a crack in the cooling pipe - or is it just because sometimes I forget to put the cap back on and water and exhaust crud has collected in the exhaust bend. 

Finally - the cooling system was pumping out a huge amount of steam from the side of the boat along with the usual squirts of water.

Any ideas?

 

Has your engine got a water cooled exhaust manifold? If you didn't drain your system with the recent cold weather this could be cracked. 

[RLWP]

It's more likely to be condensation that has formed inside and outside the exhaust. Boat engines are often soaking wet this time of year

[efish__]

1 hour ago, Stilllearning said:

By “the usual squirts of water”, do you mean that the volume of raw water cooling does not seem to have changed over the past few months?

In the days when I ran an LPWS4 any steam in the raw water exhaust was an indication of a blocked inlet filter.

Will check this first!

1 hour ago, BWM said:

Has your engine got a water cooled exhaust manifold? If you didn't drain your system with the recent cold weather this could be cracked. 

Yes we do - will open this up and take a look - thanks!

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

It's more likely to be condensation that has formed inside and outside the exhaust. Boat engines are often soaking wet this time of year

Yes could be but the condensation doesn't seem to dry up - the steam from the cooling outlet seems to occur at the same time as the exhaust steam - will run it for longer tomorrow to see if it dries up and order a new silencer and exhaust pipe in case it is jammed up with crap! 

 

[RLWP]

1 hour ago, efish__ said:

Yes we do - will open this up and take a look - thanks!

 

The full, box-like structure?

I don't remember paying much attention to that side of Albion's engine

Richard

[Ray T]

7 hours ago, koukouvagia said:

 

photos Kathryn Doddington

Off topic, but this photo reminds me of IC 125 rabbit ears exhaust

 

 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Ray T

[efish__]

1 hour ago, RLWP said:

The full, box-like structure?

I don't remember paying much attention to that side of Albion's engine

Richard

Yes that's right - it has a rectangular box on top of the manifold with a pipe to the calorifier and another with a stat out to the canal. 

Edited January 5, 2018 by efish__

[RLWP]

19 minutes ago, efish__ said:

Yes that's right - it has a rectangular box on top of the manifold with a pipe to the calorifier and another with a stat out to the canal. 

If it has split internally, I would be expecting you to be having a lot more trouble. Like water in the oil and hydraulic locking in the cylinder

have you got a header tank higher than the cylinder head?

Richard