Time limited moorings over the winter months

[rowland al]

4 minutes ago, Robbo said:

It’s a different document per year so the name is different.

Always November as far as I’m aware, last year it finished early due to Easter.

Maybe I’m getting mixed up with the relaxation signs like the one at Braunston which says 14 days from October (and 48 hours the rest of the year). Seems a bit inconsistent to me. 

 

Have they done a specific yearly document about this for 2018/9 then, or is the new 6 page FAQ PDF the only place boaters will be able to find it in coming years? I’m sure Damian used to put it in his ‘Boating Update’ newsletter. 

 

 

[Arthur Marshall]

On 20/11/2017 at 11:15, Allan(nb Albert) said:

Not at all. C&RT have power under the 1995 Act.

If a boat is not being used 'bona fide for navigation' (i.e. it has remained in one place for more than 14 days when it is not reasonable to do so), then the 1995 Act allows C&RT to issue a notice compelling the 'default' to be remedied within a period of not less than 28 days. 

 

I'm sure I recall Nigel saying somewhere or other that there is actually no legal obligation for CRT to allow non-cc-ing boats to moor up anywhere, for any length of time.  It's a concession, not a right, so presumably can be withdrawn at any time.

As far as charges / fines are concerned, I still cannot see the problem - if CRT can charge for a permanent mooring on the towpath, or for a temporary one as they do at Llangollen, then they can charge what they like, where they like, for however long they like, with whatever conditions they like.  No-one has ever challenged their right to do this as far as I know, certainly not successfully, so I presume if they aren't pursuing the £25 quid for overstaying, it's because it isn't worth their while financially.

Yet.

[Alan de Enfield]

27 minutes ago, Arthur Marshall said:

I'm sure I recall Nigel saying somewhere or other that there is actually no legal obligation for CRT to allow non-cc-ing boats to moor up anywhere, for any length of time.  It's a concession, not a right, so presumably can be withdrawn at any time.

As far as charges / fines are concerned, I still cannot see the problem - if CRT can charge for a permanent mooring on the towpath, or for a temporary one as they do at Llangollen, then they can charge what they like, where they like, for however long they like, with whatever conditions they like.  No-one has ever challenged their right to do this as far as I know, certainly not successfully, so I presume if they aren't pursuing the £25 quid for overstaying, it's because it isn't worth their while financially.

Yet.

 

Extract from one of Nigel's posts on the subject

 

Over the latter part of the 20th century, longer temporary use of the towpath for mooring became tolerated on a pragmatic basis, with 14 days fixed upon as a rough guideline for reasons lost in obscurity (for all that BW came up with postulated origins during the Select Committee hearings on the 1990 Bill).

 

Obstruction remains on the statute books as an offence, updated even in the 1995 Act, and overstaying stated times on selected sections has been used with County Court approval to qualify the boat – being thereby regarded as an obstruction - for being moved under s.8(5) of the 1983 Act. Anything longer than an overnight stay, as I see it, is simply permissive – with the exception of boats without home moorings, for whom only, the right to 14 days (or more if circumstances dictate) is enshrined in law.

 

For boats with home moorings when cruising away from those, the 14 day limit would apply only as a permissive one based on a fair-play comparison with the ‘continuous cruisers’. It is simply, in other words, that CaRT would find difficulty in justifying the application of differing standards based only on the nature of the boat licence application.

 

To suggest that any boat was legally free from constraint over use of the towpath is unjustifiable.

[Sea Dog]

2 hours ago, rowland al said:

Maybe I’m getting mixed up with the relaxation signs like the one at Braunston which says 14 days from October (and 48 hours the rest of the year). Seems a bit inconsistent to me. 

I'm sure this is popular with many folk, but I'm not a fan of this initiative. When you are cruising in winter, the days are already short and may be shortened further by weather or temperature.  To be able to aim for popular visitor moorings, particularly with access to shops and the like, is quite important, and if you miss them there's often not much daylight left (or the weathers against you) when you have to keep going.  When there's a 48 hr restriction and there's only a few out cruising, there's usually space, but now it's pretty regular to find the best quick stop moorings all occupied by folk staying for the fortnight.  There's a different view, I know.

 

[MtB]

6 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I'm sure this is popular with many folk, but I'm not a fan of this initiative. When you are cruising in winter, the days are already short and may be shortened further by weather or temperature.  To be able to aim for popular visitor moorings, particularly with access to shops and the like, is quite important, and if you miss them there's often not much daylight left (or the weathers against you) when you have to keep going.  When there's a 48 hr restriction and there's only a few out cruising, there's usually space, but now it's pretty regular to find the best quick stop moorings all occupied by folk staying for the fortnight.  There's a different view, I know.

 

 

 

This is not as downright infuriating as aiming for a VM and when you get there, finding the whole of it given over to Winter Moorings and rammed full and there being no chance of a space for the next four months. 

 

 

 

[Jennifer McM]

11 minutes ago, Sea Dog said:

I'm sure this is popular with many folk, but I'm not a fan of this initiative. When you are cruising in winter, the days are already short and may be shortened further by weather or temperature.  To be able to aim for popular visitor moorings, particularly with access to shops and the like, is quite important, and if you miss them there's often not much daylight left (or the weathers against you) when you have to keep going.  When there's a 48 hr restriction and there's only a few out cruising, there's usually space, but now it's pretty regular to find the best quick stop moorings all occupied by folk staying for the fortnight.  There's a different view, I know.

 

Yes, I can see your point. The two times we found ourselves icebound last winter and couldn't move, we weren't on any official mooring. I'm not sure relaxing the mooring times would make much of a difference. 

[Sea Dog]

5 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

This is not as downright infuriating as aiming for a VM and when you get there, finding the whole of it given over to Winter Moorings and rammed full and there being no chance of a space for the next four months. 

 

 

 

You may well be right, Mike, and I sympathise.  I just know that when I'm cold and wet heading for (insert name of mooring here) only to find it full for either reason, having to continue up the cut, possibly towards bandit country with an hour of daylight left, takes the shine off a bit. 

[Mike Todd]

40 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

This is not as downright infuriating as aiming for a VM and when you get there, finding the whole of it given over to Winter Moorings and rammed full and there being no chance of a space for the next four months. 

 

 

 

I thought that in previous years only a part of a VM was to be used for winter moorings - has that changed? Or was I imagining it?

[alan_fincher]

5 minutes ago, Mike Todd said:

I thought that in previous years only a part of a VM was to be used for winter moorings - has that changed? Or was I imagining it?

That is certainly what I have been told in meetings with CRT.

I thought, (but maybe misremembering) that no more than 50% of any designated VM was to be made available as winter moorings.

We also got them to change things such that if all of that mooring space is not let, the signs get moved to free up as much as possible for use again as normal VMs.

The meetings I was in specifically related to the (former) South East region, but the person reporting it has a national role, and I thought it applied in all regions.

Edited October 5, 2018 by alan_fincher

[Sea Dog]

25 minutes ago, alan_fincher said:

We also got them to change things such that if all of that mooring space is not let, the signs get moved to free up as much as possible for use again as normal VMs.

Thank you

 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, alan_fincher said:

That is certainly what I have been told in meetings with CRT.

I thought, (but maybe misremembering) that no more than 50% of any designated VM was to be made available as winter moorings.

We also got them to change things such that if all of that mooring space is not let, the signs get moved to free up as much as possible for use again as normal VMs.

The meetings I was in specifically related to the (former) South East region, but the person reporting it has a national role, and I thought it applied in all regions.

 

Not my perception here at the eastern end of the K&A. I think last year the whole of Great Bedwyn, Froxfield and Wootton Rivers VMs were given over to WM, and all of Kintbury bar about three spaces but I may be mistaken. This year I'll take careful note and report back!

Edited October 5, 2018 by Mike the Boilerman
Add a bit.

[john6767]

2 hours ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

 

This is not as downright infuriating as aiming for a VM and when you get there, finding the whole of it given over to Winter Moorings and rammed full and there being no chance of a space for the next four months. 

 

 

 

Not sure they will be all winter mooring, but in the main they will have reverted to 14 day, so it does become harder to find a spot.  We have found that in Braunston the last couple of years.  Previously it seemed to work well there, as much of the 2 day/48 hour did revert to 14 day, but the 2 day/48 hour by the marina stayed as that.  Now it is all 14 day and more likely to be full up.

[alan_fincher]

53 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Not my perception here at the eastern end of the K&A. I think last year the whole of Great Bedwyn, Froxfield and Wootton Rivers VMs were given over to WM, and all of Kintbury bar about three spaces but I may be mistaken. This year I'll take careful note and report back!

The following is taken from the 2018/2019 Winter Moorings Frequently Asked Questions Doument.......

If you find actual evidence they have failed to stick to this, I would register a complaint with CRT.

How

Quote

How will I know where my mooring is on the winter mooring site?

 

On selected visitor moorings designated as winter moorings:

 

Approximately 50% of the visitor mooring site is allocated to winter moorings so that those boaters who prefer to cruise throughout the winter are still able to use the mooring.

For this reason the winter mooring section of the mooring site will be at the end of the mooring site furthest from the available facilities or main access point.

We will endeavour to sign where all thewinter moorings start and end, but if

for any reason there are no signs indicating where the winter mooring space is on the site we would ask that you moor as far from the facilities as possible.

It is advisable to have mooring pins with you in case you need them

 

 

Edited October 5, 2018 by alan_fincher