Stiff tiller/rudder

[Richard10002]

When I bought our 20 years old boat in 2011, the tikker/rudder was stiff.

When I took it out of the water in 2015, I packed the socket that the bottom of the rudder sits in with water resistant grease. Since then it's been much freer and the grease has lasted over two years so far. I'll see how it looks when I take her out again next year.

If it's been sat ashore for a year or so, I'm not surprised it's stiff. Perhaps it's one of those things that should be checked before launching?

Ridiculous to talk about solicitors letters and chasing the sellers, if all it might need is a bit of grease.

[jddevel]

Well I can give an update on this subject and so further advice. I`ve finally been able to spend a little time cruising (a week) and have noticed the following. Firstly the top bearing appears to be higher one side than the other in the housing ( no longer at the boat where I had no internet and stupidly did not take a picture!) Secondly the tiller arm does not turn in the bearing but rather the whole bearing moves in the housing. Both of these things seem to me to be incorrect as logically the arm would move in the bearing and the top surface of the bearing should lie in a parallel plain with its housing. But that`s me assuming things and I hope I`ve explained it so that I`ve made myself clear.  

[Tony Brooks]

34 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Well I can give an update on this subject and so further advice. I`ve finally been able to spend a little time cruising (a week) and have noticed the following. Firstly the top bearing appears to be higher one side than the other in the housing ( no longer at the boat where I had no internet and stupidly did not take a picture!) Secondly the tiller arm does not turn in the bearing but rather the whole bearing moves in the housing. Both of these things seem to me to be incorrect as logically the arm would move in the bearing and the top surface of the bearing should lie in a parallel plain with its housing. But that`s me assuming things and I hope I`ve explained it so that I`ve made myself clear.  

Some top bearings are self aligning ball bearings and as many rudder stocks are not vertical they will often have the stock not perpendicular to the housing but its usually fore & aft, not side to side. If it is side to side then it sounds as if the skeg has been bent to one side so the stock may be binding in the tube.

As fara s the whole bearing moving in the housing is concerned I agree that sounds wrong but it all depends upon the type of bearing. I think we need to await a photo.

 

[Boater Sam]

I'll wager that it has the standard nylon in stainless collar bearings top and bottom, no grease nipple. Just look like a doughnut. Everyone seems to be using these now, cheaper than a self aligning ball race.

They do swell up slightly when not used, but soon ease off when back in the water and banged about a bit. Odd really because nylon does absorb water very slightly.

Better tight on a new boat, in 5 years time you will be complaining that they are too slack!

[Flyboy]

2 hours ago, jddevel said:

Well I can give an update on this subject and so further advice. I`ve finally been able to spend a little time cruising (a week) and have noticed the following. Firstly the top bearing appears to be higher one side than the other in the housing ( no longer at the boat where I had no internet and stupidly did not take a picture!) Secondly the tiller arm does not turn in the bearing but rather the whole bearing moves in the housing. Both of these things seem to me to be incorrect as logically the arm would move in the bearing and the top surface of the bearing should lie in a parallel plain with its housing. But that`s me assuming things and I hope I`ve explained it so that I`ve made myself clear.  

Can you post a picture so the type of bearing can be determined ?

[jddevel]

Will post a picture on my return but it may not be for 2/3 weeks. 

5 hours ago, Tony Brooks said:

but its usually fore & aft, not side to side

The bearing moves as stated in the housing not the tiller in the bearing. It means that the "raised side" of the bearing moves dependent on the position of the tiller-if that makes sense. To me it looks like a WARSTOCK  STD UNIT as shown on the Midland Chandlers website In this picture the flat rubber surface is parallel with the metal housing which as stated is not so in my case.

[Boater Sam]

I'll wager that it has the standard nylon in stainless collar bearings top and bottom, no grease nipple. Just look like a doughnut. Everyone seems to be using these now, cheaper than a self aligning ball race.

They do swell up slightly when not used, but soon ease off when back in the water and banged about a bit. Odd really because nylon does absorb water very slightly.

Better tight on a new boat, in 5 years time you will be complaining that they are too slack!

 

I  bet its the bottom bearing that is tight, if so it will soon wear in.

That type of top bearing is usually OK, drip a spot of cooking oil  (NOT mineral oil ) round it, if it eases it then you know which bearing is tight. Whichever way, it will run in I'm sure.

[Tony Brooks]

Sam

Are those bearings in any way self aligning? From the flange on the bottom of the bush I suspect not but if I could find one with the correct fixing centres I would rather like to replace my ball race type with one when the time comes.

[Flyboy]

15 hours ago, jddevel said:

Will post a picture on my return but it may not be for 2/3 weeks. 

The bearing moves as stated in the housing not the tiller in the bearing. It means that the "raised side" of the bearing moves dependent on the position of the tiller-if that makes sense. To me it looks like a WARSTOCK  STD UNIT as shown on the Midland Chandlers website In this picture the flat rubber surface is parallel with the metal housing which as stated is not so in my case.

I have this type of bearing and it's been fine for ten years. I think your problem is that because of lack of use the rudder stock has rusted and seized in the nylon bearing. If you remove the 4 bolts and raise the housing, you should be able to free it and slide it up the stock which you can then clean up.

[Flyboy]

1 hour ago, Tony Brooks said:

Sam

Are those bearings in any way self aligning? From the flange on the bottom of the bush I suspect not but if I could find one with the correct fixing centres I would rather like to replace my ball race type with one when the time comes.

Yes, they do self align but I don't know how much angle you can get though.

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, Flyboy said:

Yes, they do self align but I don't know how much angle you can get though.

Thanks

The various web sites do not seem to make any mention of that or even the fixing centres (unless I am reading the wrong - and that's possible).

So back to the OP. In light of this the bush part may be at an angle to the casing but it if so it should tilt fore and aft. If it tilts side to side the skeg may well be bent/misfixed.

[jddevel]

Thanks all. Think I will try Flyboys` advice first. Reference possible damage obviously hope not- it`s a Bourne boat, hull professionally moved and placed on hardstanding by Ray Bowen.

[bizzard]

To protect top bearings from rain I have fitted a number of vehicle driveshaft CV boots to the rudder stock just below where the swans neck connects. If you can't get the swans neck off adjustable stick together CV boots are available, for 1'', 1.1/2'' or so stocks use a lager size that larger front wheel drive vans use. They come complete with trimming knife, clips and glue. They're like umbrellas over the bearing.

Edited April 15, 2018 by bizzard

[nb Innisfree]

3 minutes ago, bizzard said:

To protect top bearings from rain I have fitted a number of vehicle driveshaft CV boots to the rudder stock just below where the swans neck connects. If you can't get the swans neck off adjustable stick together CV boots are available, for 1'', 1.1/2'' or so stocks use a lager size that larger front wheel drive vans use. They come complete with trimming knife, clips and glue. They're like umbrellas over the bearing.

A kate & sidney pudding tin painted in the colour of your choice does the job. Fix to underside of  swans neck before fitting back on. 

[bizzard]

2 minutes ago, nb Innisfree said:

A kate & sidney pudding tin painted in the colour of your choice does the job. Fix to underside of  swans neck before fitting back on. 

I make swords, using those as hand shields. And Christmas pudding tins.

Edited April 15, 2018 by bizzard

[nb Innisfree]

1 hour ago, bizzard said:

I make swords, using those as hand shields. And Christmas pudding tins.

Sounds just the job, I wish I'd thought of that when I was a nipper. I used to idolise d'Artagnan, never did get an ostrich feather for my cowboy hat. 

[ditchcrawler]

This is what I have done to protect the ball race, its two pieces of tractor inner tube laminated together with some Evostic so I could put it round the shaft without taking the top off