Pump keeps cycling in

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, umpire111 said:

Will try that, thanks

Turn the valve off when the system is up to pressure, not while the pump is running.

[umpire111]

On 11/06/2017 at 09:02, Tony Brooks said:

Turn the valve off when the system is up to pressure, not while the pump is running.

Sorry, on Gt. Union and reception a bit iffy. Ok, turned the tap from the tank to the pump off when all up to pressure as still problem exists. Pump still cycles on.  Perhaps you could help as not sure what that tells me. Thanks for help

[umpire111]

On 11/06/2017 at 06:37, frangar said:

Is it a brand new spare pump? If it's been used it may well have the same fault

Not a new pump but a spare, coincidence if both had same problem

 

[Tony Brooks]

5 minutes ago, umpire111 said:

Sorry, on Gt. Union and reception a bit iffy. Ok, turned the tap from the tank to the pump off when all up to pressure as still problem exists. Pump still cycles on.  Perhaps you could help as not sure what that tells me. Thanks for help

Water is leaking from the system and not back through the pump valves. As said suspect hot water PRV (near calorifier) or toilet leak if the bilge is dry.

[umpire111]

1 minute ago, Tony Brooks said:

Water is leaking from the system and not back through the pump valves. As said suspect hot water PRV (near calorifier) or toilet leak if the bilge is dry.

I isolated the toilet bya valve in the inlet pipe at the back of the loo and same problem, so I assume it's not toilet. Also it's a new PRV and I placed tissue paper in the external outlet and it's bone dry......frustrating or what?

[Tony Brooks]

OK what is happening to the water level in the engine cooling header tank and central heating tank doing?

Is your accommodation bilge absolutely dry or if its an all in one bilge (drains into the engine compartment) are you getting water in it when it is not raining?

[umpire111]

7 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

OK what is happening to the water level in the engine cooling header tank and central heating tank doing?

Is your accommodation bilge absolutely dry or if its an all in one bilge (drains into the engine compartment) are you getting water in it when it is not raining?

Both the engine cooling and central heating are independent systems and not connected to problem pump. Bilges are absolutely dry. Thanks again.

[rusty69]

1 minute ago, umpire111 said:

Both the engine cooling and central heating are independent systems and not connected to problem pump. Bilges are absolutely dry. Thanks again.

So your calorifier (if you have one) isn't connected to the engine? 

[Tony Brooks]

1 minute ago, umpire111 said:

Both the engine cooling and central heating are independent systems and not connected to problem pump. Bilges are absolutely dry. Thanks again.

So have you checked them or just working from what you think the case may be?

If you have a gas instant water heater you might be correct but if you have a calorifier you will not be if there is an internal leak to a coil.

[umpire111]

3 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

So have you checked them or just working from what you think the case may be?

If you have a gas instant water heater you might be correct but if you have a calorifier you will not be if there is an internal leak to a coil.

Central heating has its own header rank and engine def separate system. No gas heater and as far as internal calorifier leak goes, I am lost there, how can I tell?

[rusty69]

5 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

So have you checked them or just working from what you think the case may be?

If you have a gas instant water heater you might be correct but if you have a calorifier you will not be if there is an internal leak to a coil.

OP did say in an earlier post, both toilet and calorifier were isolated whilst problem continued. It seems very odd, i suppose it could be a faulty isolation valve. Its also possible the calorifier is only immersion driven. 

[WotEver]

Just now, umpire111 said:

as far as internal calorifier leak goes, I am lost there, how can I tell?

Tony B told you...

20 minutes ago, Tony Brooks said:

OK what is happening to the water level in the engine cooling header tank

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, umpire111 said:

how can I tell?

By checking the header tank

[Tony Brooks]

Something is very odd here. either the OP is not seeing what needs to be seen or he has a rarer fault.

If the tank is isolated with the pump up to pressure yet it still cycles then there must e a leak UNLESS the isolating valve is leaking. If its a wheel type gate vale a leaking isolating valve would not surprise me.

Lets assume the isolating valve is OK then the leak must be on the pressure side of the pump.

The bilge s dry so unless the boat is heeling away from the accommodation bilge inspection hatch (you are not just checking the engine oblige are you?) then it cant be a plumbing leak unless it is still soaking into whatever is stored around the pipes.

If its not a plumbing leak then it has to be somewhere where the leak is vented away like the toilet of water system PRV.

As the toilet is isolate it cant be leaking into the bowl UNLESS the valve is leaking.

We are assured the PRV is not leaking and its new. that throws up the possibility tat it is leaking but the new one is set at too lower pressure for the pump setting but the OP insists the PRV is not leaking.

All that is left is a leak into the engine cooling system or the central heating system (if fitted) via a faulty calorifier coil.

If its leaking into the engine cooling system the header tank would normally be overflowing with the domestic pump on and the engine off - the OP indicates it s not.

That leaves the central heating system and SOME header tanks are fitted with a all cock and an overflow vented to the outside. The OP says the problem is not here so its beyond me.

 

 

 

[rusty69]

It does seem odd. If the pump is cycling every   few minutes, it indicates a large leak. If the pump is not at fault. How about a washing machine or pinhole leak under the calorifier insulation coupled with a faulty gate valve. 

 

Must admit I'm  clutching at straws

 

[Dr Bob]

1 hour ago, rusty69 said:

It does seem odd. If the pump is cycling every   few minutes, it indicates a large leak. If the pump is not at fault. How about a washing machine or pinhole leak under the calorifier insulation coupled with a faulty gate valve. 

 

Must admit I'm  clutching at straws

 

At this stage, I think I would insert a gate valve in the cold water system half way down the boat so isolating the back end of the boat and seeing if the fault still exists. If the pump keeps cycling then anything downstream of the new valve should be OK and this will then include the Loo and the calorifier which are the difficult ones to see if there is a leak. Cant remember if OP said where the accumulator is but putting the valve downstream of that will help identify the area of the fault.

 

[mross]

OP still hasn't found the accumulator........................

[umpire111]

9 hours ago, Dr Bob said:

At this stage, I think I would insert a gate valve in the cold water system half way down the boat so isolating the back end of the boat and seeing if the fault still exists. If the pump keeps cycling then anything downstream of the new valve should be OK and this will then include the Loo and the calorifier which are the difficult ones to see if there is a leak. Cant remember if OP said where the accumulator is but putting the valve downstream of that will help identify the area of the fault.

 

Sounds sensible idea. On the outlet side of the pump it soon splits into two, what I will do is to insert a valve so I can totally isolate the output. Or would you put in two valves, after the split? Could send a photo but can't seem to upload it. Thanks for all advice. I don't have an accumulator.

Edited June 13, 2017 by umpire111

[Chewbacka]

14 minutes ago, umpire111 said:

Sounds sensible idea. On the outlet side of the pump it soon splits into two, what I will do is to insert a valve so I can totally isolate the output. Or would you put in two valves, after the split? Could send a photo but can't seem to upload it. Thanks for all advice. I don't have an accumulator.

I would put a ball valve in each/both arms of the split, that way you will know which arm is leaking.  When that is clear you can consider how to find the leak by - if necessary by either temp disconnecting and capping off or adding more ball valves - isolating various items eg calorifier. 

[umpire111]

Just now, Chewbacka said:

I would put a ball valve in each/both arms of the split, that way you will know which arm is leaking.  When that is clear you can consider how to find the leak by - if necessary by either temp disconnecting and capping off or adding more ball valves - isolating various items eg calorifier. 

Thanks, in Warwick now so hope I can find a plumbing merchant. Watch this space

[Chewbacka]

2 minutes ago, umpire111 said:

Thanks, in Warwick now so hope I can find a plumbing merchant. Watch this space

Toolstation and Screwfix both sell ball valves at reasonable prices, easy to find the nearest branch if you have a smart phone.

[umpire111]

1 minute ago, Chewbacka said:

Toolstation and Screwfix both sell ball valves at reasonable prices, easy to find the nearest branch if you have a smart phone.

None in Warwick

[Chewbacka]

4 minutes ago, umpire111 said:

None in Warwick

Surprising, Screwfix is obviously posher than I realised as the nearest branch is probably in Royal Leamington Spa.  Good luck with your hunt for a ball valve shop.

[bizzard]

Surely its simpler to just remove each of the branches in turn from wherever they go to and block each one off in turn tightly with a bung. Or if they'e soft flexible tubing clamp them off tight in turn with a clamp or a pair of Mole grips with bits of wood under the jaws to prevent damaging the tubing.

Edited June 13, 2017 by bizzard

[Tony Brooks]

1 hour ago, umpire111 said:

None in Warwick

There is a Toolstaion within easy walking distance of the canal at Leamington. Moor near Alde/Morrisons/The moorings (pub) and walk p the hill towards the big retail park and then the Mosque. Toolstaion is set back on the left before the mosque (I think that is what it is).