MAIB report on CO deaths on Love for Lydia

[ditchcrawler]

There were cases on the Broads where some hire boats had a very small deck right at the rear of the boat behind the cabin where people had become overcome with the exhaust fumes. You would think sitting outside you would be safe

[mrsmelly]

9 hours ago, ditchcrawler said:

There were cases on the Broads where some hire boats had a very small deck right at the rear of the boat behind the cabin where people had become overcome with the exhaust fumes. You would think sitting outside you would be safe

Yes and some narrowboaters still insist on running their gennies on the back deck whilst stationary charging their batteries 

[Murflynn]

11 hours ago, Dyertribe said:

I agree.

On my first canal holiday (I was 9 or 10 at the time) we hired what I know was a Dawncraft boat there was an outboard engine mounted in what was a "box" in the rest cabin. I think there should have been some sort of inboard engine there but it was a few  years ago! The whole back cabin (central cabin) was filled with exhaust fumes when the engine was running to the point of making one's eyes smart when you entered the cabin, usually to access the toilet. How we,or other hirers did not succumb to CO poisoning heaven only knows. 

strange, innit, how we managed in those good old days, and nowadays everything is a hazard and lots of casualties arise ............. in all walks of life.

sad but true.

I preferred the days of blissful ignorance.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Murflynn

[Guest]

My carbon monoxide detector right near the front of my 62ft narrowboat has gone off the last couple of times I've been out cruising, however the one in the middle of the boat and the one right near the stern have not activated. I don't have any other fuel burning appliances lit at the time (the only things I have are a gas hob and oven and a solid fuel stove). I assumed it was just going off because of battery charging and release of hydrogen during this as seemed to have happened a while back when I first installed the leisure batteries. It just seems odd that it bypasses the other 2 detectors. The only other thing I can think of is the bow thruster batteries under the foredeck, but these are sealed under a (supposedly) watertight cover on the deck. 

Is there anything I should be getting checked? 

[Captain Pegg]

54 minutes ago, Murflynn said:

strange, innit, how we managed in those good old days, and nowadays everything is a hazard and lots of casualties arise ............. in all walks of life.

sad but true.

I preferred the days of blissful ignorance.

Blissful ignorance of how many people died unnecessarily?

On balance I prefer a society that isn't blasé about people dying.

JP

Edited June 3, 2017 by Captain Pegg

[rusty69]

12 minutes ago, Rumsky said:

My carbon monoxide detector right near the front of my 62ft narrowboat has gone off the last couple of times I've been out cruising, however the one in the middle of the boat and the one right near the stern have not activated. I don't have any other fuel burning appliances lit at the time (the only things I have are a gas hob and oven and a solid fuel stove). I assumed it was just going off because of battery charging and release of hydrogen during this as seemed to have happened a while back when I first installed the leisure batteries. It just seems odd that it bypasses the other 2 detectors. The only other thing I can think of is the bow thruster batteries under the foredeck, but these are sealed under a (supposedly) watertight cover on the deck. 

Is there anything I should be getting checked? 

Might be worth swapping the detectors over, see if it still occurs 

[MtB]

1 hour ago, mrsmelly said:

Yes and some narrowboaters still insist on running their gennies on the back deck whilst stationary charging their batteries 

 

Whilst I agree this creates a tiny risk, it isn't in the same league as the boat in this MAIB report. Firstly, the risk is much reduced provided back doors and hatch are shut. Secondly such people doing this may have CO detectors inside the boat, and thirdly, the case investigated was an 8 litre petrol V8 engine running at 3,000 rpm with the back canopy open, not a 50cc genny engine. 

Let's maintain a sense of proportiion. 

[mrsmelly]

26 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Whilst I agree this creates a tiny risk, it isn't in the same league as the boat in this MAIB report. Firstly, the risk is much reduced provided back doors and hatch are shut. Secondly such people doing this may have CO detectors inside the boat, and thirdly, the case investigated was an 8 litre petrol V8 engine running at 3,000 rpm with the back canopy open, not a 50cc genny engine. 

Let's maintain a sense of proportiion. 

Ahh so thats how you charge your batteries then Mike 

[Robbo]

51 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

 

Whilst I agree this creates a tiny risk, it isn't in the same league as the boat in this MAIB report. Firstly, the risk is much reduced provided back doors and hatch are shut. Secondly such people doing this may have CO detectors inside the boat, and thirdly, the case investigated was an 8 litre petrol V8 engine running at 3,000 rpm with the back canopy open, not a 50cc genny engine. 

Let's maintain a sense of proportiion. 

First the risk from a v8 running at 3000 and a 50cc engine is the same.  It's when the fuel doesn't burn properly that causes CO not the running of a engine or gas appliance and a crappy old genny compared to a well looked after v8 can produce more.  I thought you were a plumber and certified for doing gas?, you should know this.

[David Mack]

33 minutes ago, Robbo said:

First the risk from a v8 running at 3000 and a 50cc engine is the same.  It's when the fuel doesn't burn properly that causes CO not the running of a engine or gas appliance and a crappy old genny compared to a well looked after v8 can produce more.  I thought you were a plumber and certified for doing gas?, you should know this.

A V8 at 3000 rpm will be burning much more fuel than a 50cc genny at 3000 rpm, so the total amount of CO produced will almost certainly be larger, and therefore the risk of getting sufficient in the cabin to kill will also be higher. (Not that I would recommend running a small genny on the back deck).

[Robbo]

30 minutes ago, David Mack said:

A V8 at 3000 rpm will be burning much more fuel than a 50cc genny at 3000 rpm, so the total amount of CO produced will almost certainly be larger, and therefore the risk of getting sufficient in the cabin to kill will also be higher. (Not that I would recommend running a small genny on the back deck).

A correct saying would be CO is only produced when fuel does not fully burn so the bigger engine could potentially produce more CO.   I'm guessing people are more likely to service a nice V8 than a old genny tho, so the genny is more likely to not be burning fuel fully.

[MtB]

Frankly, I disagree. 

5 minutes ago, Robbo said:

A correct saying would be CO is only produced when fuel does not fully burn so the bigger engine could potentially produce more CO.   I'm guessing people are more likely to service a nice V8 than a old genny tho, so the genny is more likely to not be burning fuel fully.

 

1 hour ago, Robbo said:

First the risk from a v8 running at 3000 and a 50cc engine is the same.  It's when the fuel doesn't burn properly that causes CO not the running of a engine or gas appliance and a crappy old genny compared to a well looked after v8 can produce more.  I thought you were a plumber and certified for doing gas?, you should know this.

 

Edited June 3, 2017 by Mike the Boilerman

[Robbo]

19 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Frankly, I disagree. 

 

 

Well if don't agree that running a genny can cause lethal amounts of CO, and running a genny on the back deck where the fumes are more likely to enter the cabin area than I think your an idiot.

[MtB]

13 minutes ago, Robbo said:

Well if don't agree that running a genny can cause lethal amounts of CO, and running a genny on the back deck where the fumes are more likely to enter the cabin area than I think your an idiot.

Which is of course, not what you said that I was disagreeing with. You said a 8 litre V8 produces the same amount of CO as a 50cc genny.  Obviously an idiotic thing to assert. 

[Robbo]

25 minutes ago, Mike the Boilerman said:

Which is of course, not what you said that I was disagreeing with. You said a 8 litre V8 produces the same amount of CO as a 50cc genny.  Obviously an idiotic thing to assert. 

Well it could as CO is produced when the fuel is not fully burned!   A bigger engine can produce less CO than a smaller engine if it's burning the fuel more efficiently.    I also said their is the same risk as any engine can produce lethal amounts of CO.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Robbo

[magpie patrick]

4 hours ago, Murflynn said:

strange, innit, how we managed in those good old days, and nowadays everything is a hazard and lots of casualties arise ............. in all walks of life.

sad but true.

I preferred the days of blissful ignorance.

I suspect that in the old days engines gave off very obvious exhaust gases and no one in their right mind would try and stay in an exhaust filled room, still less try and nod off in one. With most other pollutants banished, people don't notice an odourless killer. 

[ditchcrawler]

3 hours ago, David Mack said:

A V8 at 3000 rpm will be burning much more fuel than a 50cc genny at 3000 rpm, so the total amount of CO produced will almost certainly be larger, and therefore the risk of getting sufficient in the cabin to kill will also be higher. (Not that I would recommend running a small genny on the back deck).

What about the ones who run them inside the back doors while they sit and watch TV, sometimes they leave one of the doors fully open oping the exhaust is blown out