Prep wheel, zirconium flap or plain flap? Advice please!!!

[OliveOyl]

Hi All

Olive is losing the will to live and beginning to seriously consider finding her Popeye!

 Having christened my new scabbler at Easter and lost six of its sixteen wheels in the first ten minutes! - I have borrowed an angle grinder to prep my beloved and rid her of old paint. Am going thru wheels at the rate of knots, so began googling/screwfixing/etcetera ing and see screwfix describe their zirc whels as fine fnishing AND aggressive material removal. 

They also describe their ord flap wheels as 'consistently high removal rate'. Given both if these are much cheaper than the prep wheel from them I am currently getting thru- should I swap?

If anyone has any suggestions to help Olive stop looking like The Hulk with  green hair, forearms and teeth from al the dust, she would be eternally grateful!

 

 

[OliveOyl]

Is there anybody there??????

[rusty69]

I have not used one, but read on here a scabbler is a great tool for getting back to the steel, followed by a random orbital sander and abranet discs.

I guess if it's a flat surface you are preparing an angle grinder isn't the best tool.

Suggest face mask and ear defenders and a hat. 

Sorry, it's not  much help, hopefully more will follow. 

 

I did start watching this professional guys video:-

http://www.johnbarnard.biz/tips-tricks-videos/

Edited May 2, 2017 by rusty69

[Bloomsberry]

I'm not an expert in this field but I've used these in the past

http://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-zirconium-flap-discs-115mm-4-piece-set/8800g

 

Not sure how they compare to normal flap discs but they are pretty good at getting paint off down to bare metal. They also scar the metal surface giving a key for the paint primer.

 

Not so good with pitting obviously but they did a good job for me.

 

They are 4 for a tenner so maybe worth a try.

[matty40s]

if you are trying to remove non slip, I suggest you get tungsten wheels for your scabbler.

We normally get two or three roofs and gunnels done with a set of wheels so maybe your boat is slightly rougher than normal.

To get back to metal, the scabbler is the best tool. If you have damaged wheels on your paint surface, any other removal tool will be destroyed far quicker.  

Perhaps your scabbler has not been set up correctly - have you got enough and thick enough washers between each wheel? Are there exactly the same number of wheels on each spindle??

Yes, these flappy disc pads are good, but will not remove stuff like a properly set up scabbler will.

[BEngo]

If you want flap wheels stick to a good brand.  Garryson and Hermes are fine IME as I expect would something by Norton.  Screwfix stuff is often more biased to cheap rather than durability. The zirconia ones do seem to last better than aluminium oxide ones.

MSC direct have a selection and supply in 24hrs.  Usual disclaimer.

N

[OliveOyl]

13 hours ago, rusty69 said:

I have not used one, but read on here a scabbler is a great tool for getting back to the steel, followed by a random orbital sander and abranet discs.

I guess if it's a flat surface you are preparing an angle grinder isn't the best tool.

Suggest face mask and ear defenders and a hat. 

Sorry, it's not  much help, hopefully more will follow. 

 

I did start watching this professional guys video:-

http://www.johnbarnard.biz/tips-tricks-videos/

Thanks Rusty, my scabbler was brilliant, but it hit  a weld within 10mins and the wheels all sheared off. I was going to order replacements butthey're very expensive and would end up costing half what the scabbler cost.  Someone offered to look at my scabbler for me to see if they could balance the remaining wheels out but that was over a week ago and I need to press on, so I am trying the angle grinder for now. It is hard work and going thru disks very quickly, hence my question about alternative wheels.

[rusty69]

2 minutes ago, OliveOyl said:

Thanks Rusty, my scabbler was brilliant, but it hit  a weld within 10mins and the wheels all sheared off. I was going to order replacements butthey're very expensive and would end up costing half what the scabbler cost.  Someone offered to look at my scabbler for me to see if they could balance the remaining wheels out but that was over a week ago and I need to press on, so I am trying the angle grinder for now. It is hard work and going thru disks very quickly, hence my question about alternative wheels.

Out of interest, what scabbler is it? 

[OliveOyl]

12 hours ago, Bloomsberry said:

I'm not an expert in this field but I've used these in the past

http://www.screwfix.com/p/erbauer-zirconium-flap-discs-115mm-4-piece-set/8800g

 

Not sure how they compare to normal flap discs but they are pretty good at getting paint off down to bare metal. They also scar the metal surface giving a key for the paint primer.

 

Not so good with pitting obviously but they did a good job for me.

 

They are 4 for a tenner so maybe worth a try.

Many thanks Bloomsberry.

I've just had a look at your link - which 'grit' should I go for? 60, 80, 120, 40 . . . ?

[OliveOyl]

12 hours ago, matty40s said:

if you are trying to remove non slip, I suggest you get tungsten wheels for your scabbler.

We normally get two or three roofs and gunnels done with a set of wheels so maybe your boat is slightly rougher than normal.

To get back to metal, the scabbler is the best tool. If you have damaged wheels on your paint surface, any other removal tool will be destroyed far quicker.  

Perhaps your scabbler has not been set up correctly - have you got enough and thick enough washers between each wheel? Are there exactly the same number of wheels on each spindle??

Yes, these flappy disc pads are good, but will not remove stuff like a properly set up scabbler will.

Hi Matty

 

I don't know about set-up, I bought it nearly a year ago and simply switched it on and tried it - there was precious little in the way of instructions with it! It is from a well-known online buying place and made by XXR.

[OliveOyl]

6 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Out of interest, what scabbler is it? 

XXR

[matty40s]

17 minutes ago, OliveOyl said:

Hi Matty

 

I don't know about set-up, I bought it nearly a year ago and simply switched it on and tried it - there was precious little in the way of instructions with it! It is from a well-known online buying place and made by XXR.

Perhaps the teeth are designed for concrete and plaster as the XXR is designed for. 

[OliveOyl]

Just now, matty40s said:

Perhaps the teeth are designed for concrete and plaster as the XXR is designed for. 

Do you mean my scabbler shouldn't be used for paint stripping Matty?

[rusty69]

8 minutes ago, OliveOyl said:

Do you mean my scabbler shouldn't be used for paint stripping Matty?

If its this one, the description suggests It's suited for concrete. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-Concrete-Scabbler-Scouring-Grinder/dp/B017NW66X2

 

I wonder how useful it would be for getting close to the handrails etc. 

Edited May 3, 2017 by rusty69

[OliveOyl]

Just now, rusty69 said:

If its this one, that's what the description suggests. 

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Professional-Concrete-Scabbler-Scouring-Grinder/dp/B017NW66X2

Yes, although I bought it off the other well known site, but my research said that's what to use for paint removal, else I wouldn't have bought it. Have I wasted my money then Matty?

 

If so, I'll have to manage with eh borrowed angle grinder. Which discs would recommend I use? The zirconium (if spo, which grit?) the flapper or the one I've used so far which is black and called a' non-woven preparation wheel'? 

[OliveOyl]

4 minutes ago, OliveOyl said:

Yes, although I bought it off the other well known site, but my research said that's what to use for paint removal, else I wouldn't have bought it. Have I wasted my money then Matty?

 

If so, I'll have to manage with eh borrowed angle grinder. Which discs would recommend I use? The zirconium (if spo, which grit?) the flapper or the one I've used so far which is black and called a' non-woven preparation wheel'? 

Sorry, Rusty.

[matty40s]

http://www.brandontoolhire.co.uk/en/surface-preparation-tool-hire/143-rotary-scabbler.html

 

This is the type you need, hire one for a day or two, you can do a complete roof in a couple of hours.

[OliveOyl]

Just now, matty40s said:

http://www.brandontoolhire.co.uk/en/surface-preparation-tool-hire/143-rotary-scabbler.html

 

This is the type you need, hire one for a day or two, you can do a complete roof in a couple of hours.

Thanks Matty,but how is it different from mine - it says concrete etc too???

[Chewbacka]

I am toying with getting a scabbler next time I paint, but what I have found out are there are different grades of toothed cutter.  My understanding is the C2 cutters are the only ones suitable for steel, the common ones seem to be C4, C5 & C6 none of which will last if used on steel.

So if you do buy some new cutters make sure they are suitable for steel.

Added -  Just had a look at the Brandon tool hire link above and it explains the different cutters, I also suspect that for £40 hire fee it does not come with cutters and you need to buy those or if it does come with cutters you may possibly pay a big deposit in case you wreck the cutters supplied.

Edited May 3, 2017 by Chewbacka

[matty40s]

We use c4 and c5 cutters as they last longer and give a better finish. C6 will do nothing useful at all.

Hire ones tend to come with knackered cutters and if doing one boat only, buying a set of c2 is the best bet.

Also factor in the voltage required, if you don't have a 110v transformer,  you have to hire on of these as well.

[Bloomsberry]

8 hours ago, OliveOyl said:

Many thanks Bloomsberry.

I've just had a look at your link - which 'grit' should I go for? 60, 80, 120, 40 . . . ?

If it's a non slip surface you are preping then I don't think flap discs will do it.

 

I got some carbide discs to prep the gunwalle of my boat and they worked pretty well. They are quite brutal so you need to be careful.

 

http://www.toolstation.com/shop/Power+Tool+Accessories/d80/Grinding+Discs/sd1770/Semi+Flexible+Disc/p57283

 

[jddevel]

Whilst I can see the value of the scabbler over most of the hull what advice for the more difficult locations - nooks and crannies please?

[WotEver]

23 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Whilst I can see the value of the scabbler over most of the hull what advice for the more difficult locations - nooks and crannies please?

A flap wheel should get in there but it'll be very slow by comparison. 

[bizzard]

23 minutes ago, jddevel said:

Whilst I can see the value of the scabbler over most of the hull what advice for the more difficult locations - nooks and crannies please?

Paint stripper or a blowlamp and old screwdriver perhaps.

[jddevel]

Thoughts or experience of needle guns? Dremel type tooling? Any one used a Zinger Bristle Blaster? Although distributors contacted them knew nothing about them so don`t hold out much hope.