New Boat Purchase by Newbie

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

Yes that's a good point it's a bit like having to have a so called professional surveyor give your house the once over if you need a mortgage.  Insurance companies banks and building societies don't get much respect from me either...  

Our boat is thirty next year and I have the dilemma of shelling out for a full, comprehensive survey or just insuring third party - maybe someone can help me decide.

I've already had to face that dilemma. I have so far chosen the third party route, but have been labeled by some on here a "fool' for doing so. 

 

I have been advised on here of a company that will insure upto, 40 years without a survey, but have not as yet investigated. 

Edited April 11, 2017 by rusty69

[tobias metta]

wow!

many thanks for the responses. Can't say I am 100% decided- but for a bit of context...

• The cost of the blacking was quoted as £564.44 for lifting the boat in and out of the water, £810 for blacking and materials and £76 for a jet wash- totalling 1450.44 inc VAT @lulu fish I guess that is still a hefty price?
• I chatted with the broker's assistant for over an hour- my best charming version of myself- to see what I could glean. It wasn't a 'You wont need a survey on this boat" sales pitch! I was asking what she felt was the biggest outlay for restoring the boat, how much wriggle room there was on the price etc. Her comment was: "the hull needs sorting- take it to these guys and they will deal with it & with their expert opinion and actions sort it for you- the engine needs a once over, there is this chap who can take care of it, I will put you in touch. I guess a sort of broadly similar advice as to what @Neil2 commented on. I think her line was take it directly to the guys who can fix it, dont pay for someone to tell you to take it to the guys who can fix it.
• I called a surveyor and we talked through the process, it will cost me £400 to get it done. He knows the broker, even knows the boat. He told me he would recommend having it taken out of the water, (at exactly the same place the lady suggested) and for 400+546 I get to know that the bottom needs blacking and the engine needs a service. sorry, I am being facetious. I of course will try to get one lift in and out and the work done at the same time. 

In the end, I am cautious and would like to know that the thing is safe, I can't rely on my own judgement for that, so a survey comes next. I am super grateful for your comments and thoughts, I am going to sleep on it and see where I am in the cold light of day!

Many genuine thanks for taking the time to answer me- It is very reassuring to get some seasoned advice,

Tobes

 

 

[Neil2]

7 minutes ago, tobias metta said:

wow!

many thanks for the responses. Can't say I am 100% decided- but for a bit of context...

• The cost of the blacking was quoted as £564.44 for lifting the boat in and out of the water, £810 for blacking and materials and £76 for a jet wash- totalling 1450.44 inc VAT @lulu fish I guess that is still a hefty price?
• I chatted with the broker's assistant for over an hour- my best charming version of myself- to see what I could glean. It wasn't a 'You wont need a survey on this boat" sales pitch! I was asking what she felt was the biggest outlay for restoring the boat, how much wriggle room there was on the price etc. Her comment was: "the hull needs sorting- take it to these guys and they will deal with it & with their expert opinion and actions sort it for you- the engine needs a once over, there is this chap who can take care of it, I will put you in touch. I guess a sort of broadly similar advice as to what @Neil2 commented on. I think her line was take it directly to the guys who can fix it, dont pay for someone to tell you to take it to the guys who can fix it.
• I called a surveyor and we talked through the process, it will cost me £400 to get it done. He knows the broker, even knows the boat. He told me he would recommend having it taken out of the water, (at exactly the same place the lady suggested) and for 400+546 I get to know that the bottom needs blacking and the engine needs a service. sorry, I am being facetious. I of course will try to get one lift in and out and the work done at the same time. 

In the end, I am cautious and would like to know that the thing is safe, I can't rely on my own judgement for that, so a survey comes next. I am super grateful for your comments and thoughts, I am going to sleep on it and see where I am in the cold light of day!

Many genuine thanks for taking the time to answer me- It is very reassuring to get some seasoned advice,

Tobes

 

 

The quote for the lift out is very high even if they had to hire in a crane, can you think of any reason why it should be so expensive, eg is it an awkward location?

[tobias metta]

£282.22 was the price but she said then they would have to put it back in the water? funnily the surveyor said that the lift out would be around 250£ from the same place. so its not clear to me yet. not a particularly difficult location? ill explore that further- might have been a miscalculation/ error.

[rusty69]

3 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

I called a surveyor and we talked through the process, it will cost me £400 to get it done. He knows the broker, even knows the boat.

Maybe he has surveyed it before. 

Is the high cost of lifting because it's a widebeam? 

[tobias metta]

@rusty69 nope- its actually whats quoted on their web.

[rusty69]

1 hour ago, lulu fish said:

No, and no.

 

 

Sorry didn't read all your replies. You wouldn't go anywhere near this boat! 

[WotEver]

51 minutes ago, tobias metta said:

@rusty69 nope- its actually whats quoted on their web.

Doesn't that price include putting it back in?

[Neil Smith]

Surely a single lift means just that otherwise it would say double lift.

Neil

[Chas78]

I bought my boat without a survey yes i have taken a risk but she cost me half the price of what i expected to pay so the savings will help with survey and plating if needed i can only get third party ins due to the fact of no hull survey and her age she will be surveyed very soon OUT of the water and i agree £1400 is way over the top to crane out and black you could just walk away and look for another with a survey or just but my GRP Cruiser just my two peneth worth  

[Naughty Cal]

12 hours ago, Alan de Enfield said:

I once had a survey (18+ boats and 30+ years ago) it cost me well over £20,000 to get it 'sea-worthy' after the surveyor gave it 100% 'clean bill of health'. After employing a marine solicitor I was told that I had no hope of winning in court as the surveyors small print made sure anything they missed was not covered in the survey, so, the survey was absolutely worthless.

Having looked at a number of surveyors T&Cs there is no come back on any of them - they do not even have to have any qualification to call themselves a surveyor and can even join one of the 'Professional Bodies' without experience.

 

Survey ?

No-Thanks.

I'll save the £1000 and put it towards any faults I find.

Thus far we have been lucky enough to only need one pre purchase survey when buying our boat 9 years ago.

The survey cost us £500. He found works totalling about £1500 which the vendor (stock boat so the vendor was also the broker) put right. On the back of other recommendations made in the report we also got a further £3k off the asking price. So that initial £500 pound outlay saved us £4k.

We would always get a survey on any further boats that we buy as we know that even if the information in that survey isn't 100% accurate, (which it wasn't in our case) it will be a bargaining tool when it comes to the selling price. And as we insure fully comp the insurers will want sight of a survey at some point.

[cuthound]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

Thus far we have been lucky enough to only need one pre purchase survey when buying our boat 9 years ago.

The survey cost us £500. He found works totalling about £1500 which the vendor (stock boat so the vendor was also the broker) put right. On the back of other recommendations made in the report we also got a further £3k off the asking price. So that initial £500 pound outlay saved us £4k.

We would always get a survey on any further boats that we buy as we know that even if the information in that survey isn't 100% accurate, (which it wasn't in our case) it will be a bargaining tool when it comes to the selling price. And as we insure fully comp the insurers will want sight of a survey at some point.

My experience too. 

The surveyor found small things to more than cover his cost. My survey cost £600 including dry docking and I goto the bost front  £5k less than the asking price.

[Dave Payne]

My survey bought up a nasty dent in the hull where sides met base, had to have some welding done, plus gas work.

 

Things I would not have known about and had to pay for myself when discovered, or worse case the dent could have got worse.

 

No brainer for peace of mind, forget being lucky and go to bed sleeping sound.

[rusty69]

I got a discount off the asking price of our plastic boat simply by offering less money. 

No surveyor. 

[MtB]

I bought my boat with no survey ten years ago.

Had a hull survey done last year for insurance purposes and not a thing wrong with it.  25 year old boat. 

[mrsmelly]

Just now, Mike the Boilerman said:

I bought my boat with no survey ten years ago.

Had a hull survey done last year for insurance purposes and not a thing wrong with it.  25 year old boat. 

I bought this boat 2 years ago.........no survey.blacked it last year........hull is mint.........ten years old now.

[Naughty Cal]

16 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

I got a discount off the asking price of our plastic boat simply by offering less money. 

No surveyor. 

Whats's the moisture content like?

 

[rusty69]

9 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Whats's the moisture content like?

 

Currently I couldn't tell you, but thanks for your concern. 

Whats yours like? 

[Neil2]

There are, as the discussion has demonstrated, some reasons why you would appoint a surveyor.

If you have an old boat that needs to be insured fully comp you may have no choice.

If your priority is to get the boat as cheap as possible, then a surveyor finding faults is probably the best way.   Even the most incompetent surveyor is still worth a lot in terms of bargaining as for some reason, buyers, sellers and brokers seem to regard their word as law.

But if your priority is to find out what is really wrong with the boat I would still argue you need someone who really knows their subject.  Surveyors that do not come from a practical background are worthless, those that do usually have a specialism in engineering, electrics, etc. so they may have valuable expertise in one area but little more than a working knowledge in others.  How many members on here can relate stories of surveyors missing glaring faults with their boat?  

Like many other members, I wouldn't bother.  I've never got an engineers report on a car either, (and I only buy old cars) you look at something and think do I really like this, can I forgive it if it bites me in the arse a few months down the line.

YMMV, as always.

[Naughty Cal]

5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

Currently I couldn't tell you, but thanks for your concern. 

Whats yours like? 

Very good for the age of the boat. Between 10 and 15 on the Tramex Skipper when tested in January.

A group of us have a meter between us.

[rusty69]

7 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Very good for the age of the boat. Between 10 and 15 on the Tramex Skipper when tested in January.

A group of us have a meter between us.

That good. 

 

I have a meter too,but it hasn't been checked recently. 

I also have a meter for the steel boat. 

Edited April 12, 2017 by rusty69

[Naughty Cal]

5 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

That good. 

 

I have a meter too,but it hasn't been checked recently. 

I also have a meter for the steel boat. 

Yes. But she does spend three months of the year ashore.

[rusty69]

34 minutes ago, Naughty Cal said:

Yes. But she does spend three months of the year ashore.

The last readings I took were beteeen 9and18 on the hull, which is a bit on the high side,but she is an old girl and spends all year round on the mooring. 

[Neil2]

1 hour ago, Naughty Cal said:

Very good for the age of the boat. Between 10 and 15 on the Tramex Skipper when tested in January.

A group of us have a meter between us.

 

26 minutes ago, rusty69 said:

The last readings I took were beteeen 9and18 on the hull, which is a bit on the high side,but she is an old girl and spends all year round on the mooring. 

Just out of interest, are you guys taking those readings from the inside or the outside of the hull?

[rusty69]

11 minutes ago, Neil2 said:

 

Just out of interest, are you guys taking those readings from the inside or the outside of the hull?

Personally If I can get access I will measure from the inside, but where access is difficult will measure outside too. 

The readings are taken with a huge pinch of salt as with most of these meters they are better in the hands of an experienced user.