Trojan/Powerline T105 Battery problems

[dmr]

I also suggest that maybe (just maybe) nothing is wrong. The fact that the batteries go down to a low tail current before equalisation does suggest that all is well, so the high current is only during equalisation. I also see over 35amps when I equalise but as you might remember I usually start at quite a high tail current (life and daylight hours are tjust oo short to wait for 1%) and also I have 6 T105's and two of those are now very old.

The increase in current during equalisation is odd but the whole equalisation process is a bit odd. Have we not said before that we recover more amp-hours than we actually put in during equalisation? Its all magic.

 

I had to ditch two Trojans (after a shortish but totally acceptable lifetime) due to a funny cell. It was not shorted but just would not charge above something like 1.23. OP needs to try more equalisation to see if they can rescue the dodgy cell, else a battery needs replacing.

 

Another thought on Powerlines, is it false economy to go for proper expensive batteries then get cheaper versions? its that ha'pence of tar thing.

 

................Dave (trivial gramatikal edit)

Morning All

 

I have some what the same setup as Tom and but with Trogan Batterys I also have the same problem

4x T105

1K Solar (80A Outback Controller)

20A basic battery charger

70A or so Alternator

 

Just ordered a 40A Sterling charger after chatting on here

 

Donal

 

Is Trogan another own brand thats only available on the Emerald Isle?

 

..............Dave

Edited January 19, 2017 by dmr

[WotEver]

Anything is possible with batteries - they have a mind of their own. It's just that Tom's experience with batteries is so far removed from my own to be suspicious. I've never seen more than 15A and never seen a current increase with time.

I suspect that all that happened (discounting a faulty battery) is that the batteries were pretty sulphated, as the lack of capacity suggested. Then during Equalisation as the sulphate converted it made the acid more concentrated, thereby lowering the battery's internal resistance and therefore drawing more current for the same voltage and SoC. Another few hours at around 15V would then bring them back to a full charge.

 

Edited to try to make sense!

Edited January 19, 2017 by WotEver

[WotEver]

Just spoke to Gibbo and he agrees that it's pretty normal behaviour.

[nicknorman]

Just out of interest and since we're out on the boat today, I've cranked the charge voltage up to 16v, 450AH of fully charged battery, battery temperature 10c. The current was initially 8A but after 30 mins or so has fallen to 3.7A

[WotEver]

Just out of interest and since we're out on the boat today, I've cranked the charge voltage up to 16v, 450AH of fully charged battery, battery temperature 10c. The current was initially 8A but after 30 mins or so has fallen to 3.7A

I guess that confirms that your batts are well cared for and not sulphated.

[nicknorman]

I guess that confirms that your batts are well cared for and not sulphated.

Maybe. I also found that when our 440AH of cheapo leisure batteries were down to 50% capacity and needed an equalise to restore the lost capacity, I never saw more than about 15A.

[WotEver]

Maybe. I also found that when our 440AH of cheapo leisure batteries were down to 50% capacity and needed an equalise to restore the lost capacity, I never saw more than about 15A.

Possibly because the sulphation was never able to be converted due to:

1. Too low a voltage and

2. Too much plate shedding.

 

No?

[nicknorman]

Possibly because the sulphation was never able to be converted due to:

1. Too low a voltage and

2. Too much plate shedding.

No?

But I did recover the capacity to near 100% of its original.

[WotEver]

But I did recover the capacity to near 100% of its original.

Then why aren't you still using them?

[nicknorman]

Then why aren't you still using them?

Because the capacity again fell to 50% after another 6 months, recovered by equalisation, lost capacity again, more equalisation etc until at 2 years they had shed so much plate material that they went funny and I decided that cheapo leisure batteries weren't fit for purpose and got my lovely Trojans!

 

At the time I posted about it but it was odd that with the battery capacity at 50% (ie 50% SoC on the Smartgauge with 75% SoC on the AH counter), it only needed perhaps 30AH of equalising (most of which presumably went to gassing) to recover the missing 220AH of capacity.

 

As I said earlier, these battery things have a mind of their own!

[cuthound]

As suggested earlier, has the OP ensured that he is measuring only the equalisation current, and to some of the boats electrical load?

 

Failing that it could be thermal runaway, but you would feel that the batteries were getting hot if that were the case.

[BargeeSpud]

OK, dumb question time:

 

Is it possible to do an equalisation charge with an onboard generator that also charges the batteries from its alternator?

[Alan de Enfield]

OK, dumb question time:

 

Is it possible to do an equalisation charge with an onboard generator that also charges the batteries from its alternator?

 

Does your generator have 'operator controlled' output voltage selection ?

[BargeeSpud]

 

Does your generator have 'operator controlled' output voltage selection ?

 

Not sure what you mean by that. My genny is a Beta 9KVa Genset & all I know is that its alternator charges my batteries whilst its putting out 240V and, as far as I'm aware, that would continue if I hooked up a battery charger capable of equalising my battery bank to one of my genset's 240V outlets .

[Alan de Enfield]

A generator / alternator / battery charger can have varying voltage outputs, from (say) 13.5 volts, 14.4 volts, 14.7v, 15v, 16v.

 

Some systems allow you to 'toggle' the max output voltage from (say) the 'standard' 14.4v to (say) 15v so you can equalise.

 

If you run a battery charger from the generator, it is the battery charger (and the battery SoC) that dictates the charge voltage, and NOT the generator.

 

Does your battery charger allow 'manual intervention' of the charge voltage ?

[BargeeSpud]

A generator / alternator / battery charger can have varying voltage outputs, from (say) 13.5 volts, 14.4 volts, 14.7v, 15v, 16v.

 

Some systems allow you to 'toggle' the max output voltage from (say) the 'standard' 14.4v to (say) 15v so you can equalise.

 

If you run a battery charger from the generator, it is the battery charger (and the battery SoC) that dictates the charge voltage, and NOT the generator.

 

Does your battery charger allow 'manual intervention' of the charge voltage ?

 

Sorry, I'm not making myself clear.

 

Basically I guess what I'm asking is, because the fact my genny's alternator will be charging the batteries at the same time as a battery charger will be doing an equalisation charge, will this impact on that charger's ability to do a proper equalisation charge? Would I have to disconnect the alternator output for example or would a charger make allowance for the input from the alternator to compensate in order to do an equalisation charge?

[ditchcrawler]

 

Sorry, I'm not making myself clear.

 

Basically I guess what I'm asking is, because the fact my genny's alternator will be charging the batteries at the same time as a battery charger will be doing an equalisation charge, will this impact on that charger's ability to do a proper equalisation charge? Would I have to disconnect the alternator output for example or would a charger make allowance for the input from the alternator to compensate in order to do an equalisation charge?

So you are saying that your built in generator supplying your boat with 240 volts also has a 12 volt alternator mounted on it which charges your domestic batteries, how does this tie in with your boat engine and alternator and also your starter batteries. The raised voltage from the battery charger being fed from the generator would suppress your on engine alternator, but if you were running at equalisation voltage you would also be feeding that to any live circuits including the alternators and maybe the engine start batteries depending on how your system is put together.

[nicknorman]

Sorry, I'm not making myself clear.

 

Basically I guess what I'm asking is, because the fact my genny's alternator will be charging the batteries at the same time as a battery charger will be doing an equalisation charge, will this impact on that charger's ability to do a proper equalisation charge? Would I have to disconnect the alternator output for example or would a charger make allowance for the input from the alternator to compensate in order to do an equalisation charge?

It shouldn't be a problem. The device with the lower set voltage (the alternator) will just cease producing current, whilst the charger will produce whatever voltage it's set to.

[Alan de Enfield]

So you are saying that your built in generator supplying your boat with 240 volts also has a 12 volt alternator mounted on it which charges your domestic batteries, how does this tie in with your boat engine and alternator and also your starter batteries. The raised voltage from the battery charger being fed from the generator would suppress your on engine alternator, but if you were running at equalisation voltage you would also be feeding that to any live circuits including the alternators and maybe the engine start batteries depending on how your system is put together.

 

Good point - a 12v TV (for example) would go 'pop' at 15v. They need a stabilised 12v supply.

[BargeeSpud]

So you are saying that your built in generator supplying your boat with 240 volts also has a 12 volt alternator mounted on it which charges your domestic batteries, how does this tie in with your boat engine and alternator and also your starter batteries. The raised voltage from the battery charger being fed from the generator would suppress your on engine alternator, but if you were running at equalisation voltage you would also be feeding that to any live circuits including the alternators and maybe the engine start batteries depending on how your system is put together.

 

 

Both engine & genny will charge all the batteries, they both have identical Leece Neville alternators. Obviously, there is never a situation where both engine & genny are operating at the same time. How they're wired up to the batteries, I'm unable to confirm ATM as I'm not exactly certain & can't check as I'm not at the boat.

 

 

It shouldn't be a problem. The device with the lower set voltage (the alternator) will just cease producing current, whilst the charger will produce whatever voltage it's set to.

 

Thanks Nick, as usual you've crystallised my query very succinctly. In other words, I need have no worries whatsoever running a 240V battery charger capable of equalising my batteries using my existing genset set up.

Edited January 27, 2017 by BargeeSpud