Waste water discharge.

[John Orentas]

Why would it be a problem.

 

You simply adopt the system used for sower drains, and pump the water overboard, making the 10" freeboard easy!

 

 

Dave.

 

Are you suggesting using a pump to empty the sink. Simply to justify some office-bound persons ideas of boat design.

 

Forget the the 10" idea and save your pump money for something worthwhile, that spirit in the sky has given us gravity for such mundane things.

[mayalld]

Dave.

 

Are you suggesting using a pump to empty the sink. Simply to justify some office-bound persons ideas of boat design.

 

Forget the the 10" idea and save your pump money for something worthwhile, that spirit in the sky has given us gravity for such mundane things.

 

Actually, my bathroom sink shares the drain box with the bath, not for the 10" freeboard, but because;

a) It made the pipe runs easier to manage

It meant that I only had to drill one hole in the side of the boat instead of two.

[ChrisPy]

dunno, have you checked the relevant ISO standard referred to in the RCD?

 

I'll look at it tonight.

 

I very much doubt if braided hose and a couple of jubilee clips protecting a below waterline opening provides robust assurance against downflooding as required in the standard.

OK, the relevant ISO standard on stability requires, for all boats, that openings in the hull less than 200mm above the load waterline shall comply with ISO:9093 (seacocks and through-hull fittings).

 

I don't know what that ISO says, 'cos I didn't need to download it. But I doubt that a piece of plastic tube secured with 2 jubilee clips will comply.

 

In the case of openings below the waterline: what happens if you have a small fire that destroys your plastic hose, or if you want to leave the boat unattended for an extended period? Wouldn't you want to have the opportunity to isolate the opening with a seacock fixed to the through-hull fitting?

Edited May 24, 2007 by chris polley

[Alastair]

OK, the relevant ISO standard on stability requires, for all boats, that openings in the hull less than 200mm above the load waterline shall comply with ISO:9093 (seacocks and through-hull fittings).

 

I don't know what that ISO says, 'cos I didn't need to download it. But I doubt that a piece of plastic tube secured with 2 jubilee clips will comply.

 

In the case of openings below the waterline: what happens if you have a small fire that destroys your plastic hose, or if you want to leave the boat unattended for an extended period? Wouldn't you want to have the opportunity to isolate the opening with a seacock fixed to the through-hull fitting?

 

 

Or a mouse chews the plastic?

 

I'd get a pipe welded onto the inside of the hull, and a seacock.

[Teadaemon]

dunno, have you checked the relevant ISO standard referred to in the RCD?

 

I'll look at it tonight.

 

I very much doubt if braided hose and a couple of jubilee clips protecting a below waterline opening provides robust assurance against downflooding as required in the standard.

 

No, but the seacock that's also required will. Interestingly the US coastguard also specify that the boat should carry softwood plugs of appropriate size for each through-hull for use in case the seacock fails, an optional (but to my mind highly recommended) precaution in the UK.

 

I'm surprised that nobody's mentioned the biggest problem with brass through-hull fittings - they become brittle over time as the zinc is corroded out (dezincification). Admittedly this will happen more slowly on an inland vessel than a seagoing one (the process is accelerated by chloride ions), but it's still something I'd want to avoid if I could.

[tidal]

Good grief something I DO know about for a change.Most GRP seaboats use bronze skin fittings and seacocke for underwater orifices.I'm not sure if they would work with steel boats?

 

"If bronze fittings are used then they must be electrically insulated from the metal of the hull. This is achieved with plastic washers, gaskets and sleeves to form a barrier between the bronze and the hull, so that no circuit is formed.

"Duh!Should have read the galvanic corrosion recomendations first! I'll get my coat shall I?"

 

Edited and confused

Well that's interesting

2nd half of post was a seperate "add reply" and went on as an edit TWICE.

I quit

Edited August 21, 2007 by tidal

[blackrose]

It's all very well people constantly posting these recomendations, and that's all they are, any one who has ever built or designed a boat will know that this 10" idea does not work, unless you have a sink unit fitted at chest level and you can find one that is no more than 9" depth. Don't just keep repeating aspirations take pencil and paper and work it out for yourself.

I made it work on both my kitchen and bathroom sinks so I don't know why you keep telling us it's unrealistic? If I can do it with my basic skills then anyone can. My kitchen sink is standard size, positioned at the stern and at gunwhale height. It is possible and I did spend a lot of time working it out. That skin fitting is 11" above the waterline.The mistake many people make is buying a sink they like the look of (like a deep Butler style sink for example) and then try to fit their boat out around their fittings - rather than the other way around. I capped the plastic waste outlet from the sink and used the side overflow inlet to the waste as my outlet attached to 19mm hose. That particular sink didn't have an overflow anyway so I could be criticised here, but it's a 1 and a half sink and I never have a plug on the small part so if I did leave a tap running and couldn't hear the waterpump for some reason it would overflow into this part - in any case I always turn my pump off when I go out.

 

Not if the sink is above water level at all angles. All that is usually installed is double jubilee clips and standard braided hose.Obviously this doesn't apply to a shower, bath or sink drain that is below water level.What have I missed?Gibbo

For starters it's going to have to be drydocked to cut the hole, but secondly I'd never put my trust in a bit of braided hose & a couple of jubilee clips to stop my boat sinking.

Edited August 21, 2007 by blackrose

[Dr Bradley]

what happens if you have a small fire that destroys your plastic hose

 

It puts the fire out?

[carlt]

I recall Lucy's BSS inspection (when the 10" rule was obligatory) and the inspector went round measuring all the holes (not all intentional) in her hull. She scraped through with him noting the obvious patches of new tinplate, considerably lower. I neglected to mention the holes below the waterline.

[abbeyriver]

Ok - stupid question coming up - what is the best way of fitting the standard skin fitting, I'm nervous about drilling a hole in the side of my new boat - no matter how many inches abouve the water. What sort of slope should there be on the sink outlet?

 

thanks for being patient

[steelaway]

Ok - stupid question coming up - what is the best way of fitting the standard skin fitting, I'm nervous about drilling a hole in the side of my new boat - no matter how many inches abouve the water. What sort of slope should there be on the sink outlet?

 

thanks for being patient

 

Hi

I have never fitted a trap there is no need, plus a trap always takes the waste outlet a lot lower.

The biggest problem is finding or modifying the caravan type sink waste to fit your sink.

With this connection you can go out directly below your sink, because it is only traveling 12- 16 inches the fall is not important.

When you have the hose connected to the sink mark the wood about where you want it. Try and guestimate where it will come outside, if you are very unlucky it come exactly where the rubbing strake is!!

 

Alex

[blackrose]

Ok - stupid question coming up - what is the best way of fitting the standard skin fitting, I'm nervous about drilling a hole in the side of my new boat - no matter how many inches abouve the water. What sort of slope should there be on the sink outlet?

 

thanks for being patient

 

Basically the skin fitting should be at least 10 -12" above the waterline. Obviously if it's going to be drained by gravity the skin fitting will have to be lower than the bottom of the sink, but if the sink is too deep and the kitchen's near the stern you can have a situation where the outlet will be too close to the waterline.

 

Anyway, try to find a reference point that you can see from both the inside and the outside of the boat. I used the skin fitting from the pressure release valve of the calorifier, but you could also use a window as long as you take into account the gap between the window and any lining on the inside. The reference point will help you to know how far above the waterline you're going to cut your hole.

 

You also need to avoid cutting through any steel stiffeners/strengtheners in the inside and not through any rubbing strakes on the outside, so do some work with your marker pen and tape measure first.

 

You haven't said whether your boat is lined in wood, but if it is you'll need to remove a bigger hole in the lining first - perhaps 3" diameter, so that the chuck of the drill can get in there and so you can tighten the skin fitting afterwards.

 

Drill a small pilot hole through the steel first with a 5mm drill - use a slow drill speed and don't even bother with the hole cutter yet. (Wear safety goggles!) Go outside and see where the drill has come through. Hopfully if all your measurements and markings were correct then it will be in the right place. If not, all is not lost. You can always get a 5mm dome headed bolt and mastic this in the hole before tightening a nut on the inside. (They don't call me Bodgeola for nothing!)

 

If the pilot hole was in the right place you are ready to cut your hole. Scrape the sprayfoam off the area with a chisel first. You really need a drill with an extra side handle for this. Cut with a slow speed & while you're cutting the hole, take the cutter away from time to time and spray a bit of WD40 on the hole to act as a coolant. If you've got a decent drill & cutter you'll be through in no time. You might need to take any burrs of with a round file afterwards.

 

Clean the WD40 off the hole & put some mastic (I use Marineflex) on the back of the flange of the skin fitting and then put one of your fingers inside the skin fitting before putting it into the hole you've cut. (If you try to hold it by the flange you're bound to drop it in!)

 

Put the nut onto the other side of the skin fitting. (be careful not to push the skin fitting out while you're getting the nut on!) You might need one of those long grippers that plumbers use to tighten the nut properly especially if the boat's already lined because it's difficult to get spanners in there.

 

I reduced the drain outlet from my sink and attached it to 3/4" hose, so the skin fitting also has a 3/4" hosetail which can just be attached with stainless hose clips - two at each end.

Edited March 5, 2008 by blackrose

[laural]

Hello I have two questions.

 

One are we allowed to empty waste water from sinks and showers ect into the canal?

Two would allowing waste water to drain into an onboard tank fitted with a bildge pump and float switch attached to a hose be ok that then goes out of a skin fitting made as high as possible near the gunwale?

[blackrose]

Hello I have two questions.

 

One are we allowed to empty waste water from sinks and showers ect into the canal?

Two would allowing waste water to drain into an onboard tank fitted with a bildge pump and float switch attached to a hose be ok that then goes out of a skin fitting made as high as possible near the gunwale?

 

1) Yes, but try to be careful about the types of products you use. There are a few brands of eco detergents available now.

 

2) Yes, but in my opinion the tank is not a good solution. If an outlet can't be gravity drained (from a shower for example), then use a diaghram pump like the Whale Gulper direct from shower drain to skin fitting in conjunction with a manual switch. http://www.force4.co.uk/ProductDetails/mcs/productID/850

[ChrisPy]

Hello I have two questions.

 

One are we allowed to empty waste water from sinks and showers ect into the canal?

Two would allowing waste water to drain into an onboard tank fitted with a bildge pump and float switch attached to a hose be ok that then goes out of a skin fitting made as high as possible near the gunwale?

yes and yes.

 

the first is the normal set-up.

 

the second is a description of a standard shower pump.

 

I take all my drains to a shower pump box and pump up to a high level outlet skin fitting.

 

edited - coincided with Mike. he's probably right - a standard pump like I have in my Mayfair pump box is more likely to get blocked than a Whale Gulper.

Edited March 8, 2008 by chris polley

[laural]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Silly question perhaps but where do you put the whale pump in the waste water tank?

 

Can you not just run a jubliee clipped hose from the sinks drain to the skin fitting or even out of the skin like an overflow?

[blackrose]

Thanks for the replies.

 

Silly question perhaps but where do you put the whale pump in the waste water tank?

 

Can you not just run a jubliee clipped hose from the sinks drain to the skin fitting or even out of the skin like an overflow?

 

If you use a whale gulper type pump you don't need an intermediate waste water tank (but you can have one if you really want!)

 

If the sink drain is high enough then yes you can connect straight to a skin fitting, as long as it goes through the side of the hull at least 10" -12" above the waterline. You obviously can't do this with a shower drain so you need some sort of pump to get the water out the boat - some people use a small sump tank underneath the shower with a pump & float switch, I use a direct diaghram pump (whale gulper) to a skin fitting and it's switched on & off manually.

Edited March 8, 2008 by blackrose

[Lee J]

Sorry to jump in here.

 

I have heard rumours that at some point in the future it is not going to be possible to discharge "grey" water into the cut. With this in mind I was thinking of doing what has been described earlier in this thread and routing sink and basin to the shower sump.

 

This way I will only cut one potentially redundent hole in my hull and it will be much easier to route to a grey tank.

 

The only downside to this is that there is likely to be a good few feet between the galley and the heads

 

If this regulation does com into force is it likely to apply to all boats or just new builds?

 

 

Any thoughts?

 

Lee

[Tomska]

Sorry to jump in here.

 

I have heard rumours that at some point in the future it is not going to be possible to discharge "grey" water into the cut. With this in mind I was thinking of doing what has been described earlier in this thread and routing sink and basin to the shower sump.

 

This way I will only cut one potentially redundent hole in my hull and it will be much easier to route to a grey tank.

 

The only downside to this is that there is likely to be a good few feet between the galley and the heads

 

If this regulation does com into force is it likely to apply to all boats or just new builds?

Any thoughts?

 

Lee

 

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I can't see how they could enforce this on existing boats. What would you do with your grey water? Pump it into a tank and pump it out at marinas like a septic tank? What if you don't have room for a tank? Seems unworkable to me.

 

I couldn't make it work well, so my basin and kitchen sink wastes are taken down to the sump pump which also serves the shower.

 

Yes, I think that's what I'm going to need to do. I blinded off the sink outlet last time she was out of the water as it was exactly on the water line. Draft's too deep to use gravity. Has your system worked OK? Do you have 2 switches on the pump (ie one in the bathroom, one in the galley)?

[Lee J]

Maybe I'm too optimistic, but I can't see how they could enforce this on existing boats. What would you do with your grey water? Pump it into a tank and pump it out at marinas like a septic tank? What if you don't have room for a tank? Seems unworkable to me.

 

Tomska,

I am fairly new to this game, but did't everybody (new boats and old) have to comply to BSS.

I'm sure that there was suggestions that that would be impossible with an old boat too. I can't see that, if this regulation does come into force, they won't include old boats. If it does make an environmental difference then I would comply. I am not overly sure of the likelyhood of this reg being brought into force however as my boat is in build I am going to make provision for it to be an easy mod if it does. I will have space under the bed which, although I would prefer to have as storage, would accomodate a grey tank if need be, and for the sake of a bit of plumbing I will run a pipe there from the shower sump, then if need be I can connect it without ripping the boat to bits.

 

I can't completely future proof my boat, I'd have spare pipe and wires everywhere! However this one has been kicking round for a while, and I think it is a reg in other parts of Europe, so I can't see it being long before it is a reg here.

 

Lee

[Tusses]

I am new to boats too - would you need to adjust the ballast if you later added a tank to one side ?

[Dylan]

I am new to boats too - would you need to adjust the ballast if you later added a tank to one side ?

Problem with any tank which is off centre, is that it can affect trim between full and empty states. Most people I know who have off centre waste tanks have averaged out the ballast situation so that the boat is level when the tank is around half full (or half empty depending on your state of mind).

[ChrisPy]

I am fairly new to this game, but did't everybody (new boats and old) have to comply to BSS.

I'm sure that there was suggestions that that would be impossible with an old boat too. I can't see that, if this regulation does come into force, they won't include old boats.

 

it may not relate to BSS, but it could be introduced as part of a unified European code under the umbrella of the RCD, which applies to all new boats.

[abbeyriver]

Thanks Black Rose for the comprehensive and comprehendable response about actully how to fit a skin fitting - really helpful.

My fit out is coming on in leaps and bounds, so much so that now the kitchen is in I've come to the crunch and was about to get the drill out to follow the described process - but doh the hole is only about 5 inches above the waterline. I think I'm going to have to ditch some of the ballast - maybe the new cooker or fridge!

[steelaway]

Thanks Black Rose for the comprehensive and comprehendable response about actully how to fit a skin fitting - really helpful.

My fit out is coming on in leaps and bounds, so much so that now the kitchen is in I've come to the crunch and was about to get the drill out to follow the described process - but doh the hole is only about 5 inches above the waterline. I think I'm going to have to ditch some of the ballast - maybe the new cooker or fridge!

 

 

Hi

 

Are you using a domestic waste trap on your sink?

 

Alex