Hull builder

[Athy]

You see all sorts of crazy looking things on the canals

Yes, most of them steering ramshackle Springers and Harborough Marines.

[bargemast]

Sorry Peter, my mistake, try (Summit Ararat) 2004 BC, Ararat, or (Pinnacle Ararat) 2079 BC.

 

No worries bizzard, I'll keep on trying, I'm in no real rush as I haven't got the funds right now.

 

It's more to see if they are willing to build my dreamboat one day or another.

 

If not, for the time being, I will only use this barge type boat in my dreams (if they're wet enough to make it float)

 

Peter.

[magnetman]

 

Ah. -thats- what a wet dream is. One about boats. I have them all the time. I thought it was more rude than that !!

[Nightwatch]

Noah, wide beam. Mt Ararat.

Was it designed to stay afloat for more than forty days and forty nights?

And did it?

[Dalslandia]

I do have a 73X13 and is driving that one since 1980, so I do have some practical aspect on boating.

and do know the limitations of the British canals,

a 6´10" beam Dutch barge seems wrong to me, but can understand the positive side with a wheel house.

A new build NB to live onboard that is built as an cargo boat seems wrong too, (but preserving an Cargo boat is something els)

That Brinklow Orpheus looks good.

 

I am not looking for the ark either, there is several built lately for those interested in that.

Edited October 2, 2016 by Dalslandia

[bizzard]

Was it designed to stay afloat for more than forty days and forty nights?

And did it?

I've no doubt it did keep afloat, you see all his passengers poop swilling around inside would have caulked it up, totally watertight, he knew that. But St Swithin could be consulted on the amount of rainfall and how long it actually did last.

[Neil2]

 

Did you talk to the steerer ?

 

Without knowing, could it be that he had a bit too much to drink before he left ?

 

It's easy to say that the stange behaviour of the boat is to blame on the boat, instead of the possibly bad helmsman.

 

Friends of mine had a narrowbeam Dutch barge, which handled beautifully and didn't have the slightest problem cruising in a straight line at all.

 

 

Peter.

 

The problem with this particular boat was the wheel was offset (to port) and the steering position was too low meaning that he was constantly having to move about to check where the bow was. I'm sure it would have been fine heading down the Thames or even somewhere like the Main Line but not squeezing past moored boats and through tight bridge holes on a narrow canal.

[bargemast]

 

The problem with this particular boat was the wheel was offset (to port) and the steering position was too low meaning that he was constantly having to move about to check where the bow was. I'm sure it would have been fine heading down the Thames or even somewhere like the Main Line but not squeezing past moored boats and through tight bridge holes on a narrow canal.

 

On the NB Dutch barge of my friends the Wheel was offset to port too, but there was good visibility from that position over the bow, so no need to constantly move about.

On the commercial barges here when you're empty with the stern ballasted down, to avoid having to dismantle the wheelhouse, there's no visibility over the bow, nowadays they almost always have a small camera to see what's happening in front of them, which is very practical and they are pretty cheap.

If you meet the owner of that Dutch barge again tell him about one of these as that may cure his problem and he/she can be a relaxed boater from then on.

 

Peter.

Edited October 2, 2016 by bargemast

[Dalslandia]

 

I do hope Dalslandia is paying attention because that is excellent advice. You see all sorts of crazy looking things on the canals, and when it comes to the wide stuff it gets even worse. There are clearly unscrupulous builders out there who are prepared to take on whatever whim and fancy the customer comes up with even if it is totally impractical.

 

We got stuck behind a narrow beam dutch barge on the Peak Forest canal a few weeks back, centre cockpit, wheel steered, he was doing about 2 mph and simply couldn't keep the thing in a straight line.

 

Was that the Harvest, electric boat ?

[magnetman]

 

On the NB Dutch barge of my friends the Wheel was offset to port too, but there was good visibility from that position over the bow, so no need to constantly move about.

On the commercial barges here when you're empty with the stern ballasted down, to avoid having to dismantle the wheelhouse, there's no visibility over the bow, nowadays they almost always have a small camera to see what's happening in front of them, which is very practical and they are pretty cheap.

If you meet the owner of that Dutch barge again tell him about one of these as that may cure his problem and he/she can be a relaxed boater from then on.

 

Peter.

This raises an interesting point.

 

I have been under the impression that the RCD requires some sort of minimum visibility distance from the steering position when underway. Like you have to be able to see the water surface xxx metres in front of the boat without visual aids such as cameras or mirrors and without standing on anything.

 

This may be totally wrong but I seem to remember being told it by someone building a "replica Dutch barge" to RCD specifications.

 

Would welcome any clarification on it.

 

I'd hate to have a boat where a camera was required. Quite a handy additional tool of course and useful for commercials with varying trim but in my opinion you need to be able to see clearly where you are going in a cruising barge.

[fretman]

Take a look at R.W.Davis boats, Northwich traders, before you make your mind up.

[magnetman]

They do nice solid boats. Not sure if they will build without the imitation rivets? They might not be to everyone's taste.

 

Good solid steelwork though and pretty nice lines.

 

Typo

Edited October 2, 2016 by magnetman

[Dalslandia]

This raises an interesting point.

 

I have been under the impression that the RCD requires some sort of minimum visibility distance from the steering position when underway. Like you have to be able to see the water surface xxx metres in front of the boat without visual aids such as cameras or mirrors and without standing on anything.

 

This may be totally wrong but I seem to remember being told it by someone building a "replica Dutch barge" to RCD specifications.

 

Would welcome any clarification on it.

 

I'd hate to have a boat where a camera was required. Quite a handy additional tool of course and useful for commercials with varying trim but in my opinion you need to be able to see clearly where you are going in a cruising barge.

Thats correct, I don't know how they go around that, if the boat is steered with a tiller you don't have to full fill that rule. I have that text somewhere.

[magnetman]

Ah. That makes sense

The "emergency tiller" could that be used as the main steering position. Nice loophole if so!

 

I still like to see where I am going though

[Guest]

I've really struggled to find a boat builder who understands how boats swim, and I've been appalled by some of the ignorance.

 

For a complex hull, particularly of the dutch barge type I think a kit from a qualified naval architect is the only way to proceed, or at the very least the buyer should ask the builder about his stability calculations from ISO12115 - if the expression is blank then walk away...

 

I will use a large fabrication shop for my hull and then complete the build canal-side, maybe the best balance of cost and expertise.

[Dalslandia]

I've really struggled to find a boat builder who understands how boats swim, and I've been appalled by some of the ignorance.

 

For a complex hull, particularly of the dutch barge type I think a kit from a qualified naval architect is the only way to proceed, or at the very least the buyer should ask the builder about his stability calculations from ISO12115 - if the expression is blank then walk away...

 

I will use a large fabrication shop for my hull and then complete the build canal-side, maybe the best balance of cost and expertise.

Maybe we end up with the same builder, does the ISO12115 apply to ditch architect's?

[Guest]

I'll let you know how I get on, you might be onto something there!

 

IS0-12215 Small Craft Hull Construction regs for ditches (ie RCD Class D) I'm not sure, maybe for public use? But for small craft RCD Class A, B & C with LOA above 12m then defiantly yes, and lots of architectural input is required.

 

My intention for my own build is for full compliance, never a bad thing to design something right in the first place - and so far so good with the stress and stability calcs, fingers crossed!

[bargemast]

This raises an interesting point.

 

I have been under the impression that the RCD requires some sort of minimum visibility distance from the steering position when underway. Like you have to be able to see the water surface xxx metres in front of the boat without visual aids such as cameras or mirrors and without standing on anything.

 

This may be totally wrong but I seem to remember being told it by someone building a "replica Dutch barge" to RCD specifications.

 

Would welcome any clarification on it.

 

I'd hate to have a boat where a camera was required. Quite a handy additional tool of course and useful for commercials with varying trim but in my opinion you need to be able to see clearly where you are going in a cruising barge.

 

I agree with you that it's far from ideal, and I'd hate it too, but while saying that, I've piloted tripboats on the Seine (through very busy Paris) were I had to relay on 4 cameras as there wasn't much visibility all around the boats, and any closer than about 100m in front of the bow on the water (if there were no passengers obstructing that little bit of vision.

 

Takes a while to get used to, even worse at night and I never enjoyed it because of the responsability for so many people on board, I would have prefered to see directly without needing the assistance of any cameras.

 

Peter.

[peterboat]

I've really struggled to find a boat builder who understands how boats swim, and I've been appalled by some of the ignorance.

 

For a complex hull, particularly of the dutch barge type I think a kit from a qualified naval architect is the only way to proceed, or at the very least the buyer should ask the builder about his stability calculations from ISO12115 - if the expression is blank then walk away...

 

I will use a large fabrication shop for my hull and then complete the build canal-side, maybe the best balance of cost and expertise.

Mmmm given how well jonnies boats swim you should maybe talk to him

[mark99]

Maybe we end up with the same builder, does the ISO12115 apply to ditch architect's?

 

Yer but; the refined evolved n/b hulls were complete before that standard was around. Experience, eye and perhaps some empirical modelling was used.

[magnetman]

I'd rather get someone who knows how to build a narrow boat than someone who can build to an ISO number. Obviously a combination of the two would be ideal but experience is the key. That's if its a narrow boat.

 

If I were looking for a newer replacement for my barge I'd be tempted to go for a Euroships shell and fit it out. Not suitable for canals in england of course but a pretty well designed cruising barge for larger waterways.

[Dalslandia]

The keel cooling tank, must be effective, until it get stuck to something

[Guest]

Don't worry, the thruster tubes are so low that they'll only redistribute sediments - maybe that's how it will free itself!

[magnetman]

Swim shape does make all the difference.

 

My boat is a Pickwell and Arnold - same underwater shape as "Hawthorn" pictured below. It really does handle well but oh how she rolls cruising on the Thames Tideway !!

[Dalslandia]

looks nice magnetman,