Widebeam hire boats on the L&L - what could possibly go wrong?

[MoominPapa]

Having climbed through industrial Lancashire, we're now descending the pretty Yorkshire side of the Leeds and Liverpool.

 

Being on the pretty bit means that that hire boat density has gone from essentially zero to pretty high - certainly well over half. There are the usual mix of experienced and newbies, sharp and clueless, but there's an additional factor. Silsden boats have five widebeams in their fleet.

 

I can sort of see the argument for having a few wide boats for experienced boaters who particularly want one, but from our experience today, it seems that Silsden is merrily hiring these things out to complete novices. The one we met at Gargrave locks today was crewed by a most unhappy set. The boat was far too big for them to manage, they'd broken two windows already and were really not having a good time. They were also getting in everybody else's way. It turns out thet they'd not even known in advance that they'd booked a wide boat. This may seem unbelievable, but looking at Silsden's web site, the length of each boat is given, but not the width. Unless you have enough experience to see from the photos or floorplan, it's quite easy to not realise which of the available boats are wide.

 

 

It strikes me that this is not a good idea. and takes the hire boat industries tendency to send out unprepared hirers in unsuitable boats to new heights. I wonder does CRT have a policy? I assume that they ration hire boat licenses on particular canals?

 

MP.

 

[Robbo]

how the hell do you break windows on any narrow/wide beam boat by just navigating? I can see it been done by others with high bows like some GRP boats, but by yourself?

[MoominPapa]

how the hell do you break windows on any narrow/wide beam boat by just navigating? I can see it been done by others with high bows like some GRP boats, but by yourself?

That wasn't quite clear in he conversation I had, but some sort of tree-branch interaction was mentioned.

 

MP.

[Robbo]

That wasn't quite clear in he conversation I had, but some sort of tree-branch interaction was mentioned.

 

MP.

 

I must be on the A&C too much as I never thought of that.

[spadefoot]

Is there any suggestion that this particular crew would have fared any better in a skinnyboat?

[Lady Muck]

Is there any suggestion that this particular crew would have fared any better in a skinnyboat?

him indoors brother smashed the window on a hireboat in exactly the same way, it was narrow. We also travelled the L&L and met a few hireboat widebeams, they didn't seem that bad to me, maybe the OP happened to catch them on a bad day. Some people really don't get on with boating, do they?

[Paul C]

At least hire firms have guidelines for handover/hirer briefing. At the moment, its possible for anyone with enough money to simply buy a widebeam, so the private owners are potentially in an even worse situation.

 

Are you seriously suggesting some kind of graded licence system, where someone who wants to drive a widebeam has to gain experience in a narrowboat first?

[MoominPapa]

 

 

Are you seriously suggesting some kind of graded licence system, where someone who wants to drive a widebeam has to gain experience in a narrowboat first?

Difficult to see how you could implement that, and no I'm not suggesting it.

 

However, re-writing the website to 1) suggest that a widebeam boat is not generally a sensible first hire and 2) make it easy to see which of the boats actually are widebeam would be a useful move. As I said, the people having a bad time were not aware they'd booked a widebeam until they arrived at the base and would much rather have been on a narrowboat.

 

MP.

[Lady Muck]

I don't think they're any more difficult to helm? We have widebeam community boats in the SE and they are often helmed by novices. Some of them are maximum beam for the waterways they operate on, sure they can be a bit of a liability sometimes but I've not heard of any accidents?

 

http://www.canalability.org.uk/

[MoominPapa]

I don't think they're any more difficult to helm? We have widebeam community boats in the SE and they are often helmed by novices. Some of them are maximum beam for the waterways they operate on, sure they can be a bit of a liability sometimes but I've not heard of any accidents?

 

http://www.canalability.org.uk/

 

They need a lot more steering precision when passing boats going the other way. The L&L is not an expansive river navigation, it's a canal built just big enough for the gauge.

 

MP.

[Bettie Boo]

Personally I have NO experience at the helm of a narrow boat, so can't say first hand if they are easier than a WB or not. Dave came back from his helmsman course (on a narrow boat) saying he felt they were a little easier to control in certain circumstances (turning was easier), but not too much difference.

 

He did mention that other boaters seemed friendlier, when he was on the narrow boat then on the wide beam

[peterboat]

I would agree it is a bit narrow in places but on the whole its easy enough on the L & L in a widebeam. I had no trouble and neither did all the other boats in our convoy. But we where only on the Yorkshire side and as far up as Saltair

[Glynn]

Were moored in Gargrave today near the services, hope the Silsdens didn't hit mine, because I have had a hit off one of theirs previously.

Worst hire fleet I have ever come across for some reason.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Glynn

[Athy]

 

 

However, re-writing the website to 1) suggest that a widebeam boat is not generally a sensible first hire

Hmmm...I was slightly nervous last year when we first hired a pénichette in France, as they are about 10' wide, but after the first day I barely noticed the extra width.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Athy

[Lady Muck]

 

They need a lot more steering precision when passing boats going the other way. The L&L is not an expansive river navigation, it's a canal built just big enough for the gauge.

 

MP.

the Stort is really small, you cannot fit two narrowboats side by side in the locks and its very windy and bendy, that's where the boats in my link are based and that was my point, the L & L is massive compared.

Edited July 27, 2016 by Lady Muck

[MoominPapa]

the Stort is really small, you cannot fit two narrowboats side by side in the locks and its very windy and bendy, that's where the boats in my link are based and that was my point, the L & L is massive compared.

Fair point then. I've never boated the Stort, though I will, one day.

 

 

Cheers,

 

MP.

[Lady Muck]

Fair point then. I've never boated the Stort, though I will, one day.

 

 

Cheers,

 

MP.

you must, its wonderful!

[Bettie Boo]

the Stort is really small, you cannot fit two narrowboats side by side in the locks and its very windy and bendy, that's where the boats in my link are based and that was my point, the L & L is massive compared.

 

We went up the Stort to Sawbridgeworth last summer, and at 10.10 wide we were sounding the horn a fair amount - to say it's very windy & bendy is an understatement IMO - but beautiful country side, so glad we did it (without incident)

 

I'm quite surprised there is width guidance in the Nicholson's about the northern GU / northern Oxford but nothing about the Stort where you are right, there are many spots it would be too tight for two of us to pass.

[jonathanA]

Were moored in Gargrave today near the services, hope the Silsdens didn't hit mine, because I have had a hit off one of theirs previously.

Worst hire fleet I have ever come across for some reason.

 

I have to agree with you any cruise to that part of the L&L and you invariably meet with the swarm of silsden boats. I've shared many a lock with a silsden boat and met a fair cross section of boaters hiring them. Having asked most of them what training they got the answer is consistently very little. They are given a DVD and told to watch it....

 

They do operate a big fleet so that probably doesn't help their cause but there is something not quite right....

[Guest]

I have to agree with you any cruise to that part of the L&L and you invariably meet with the swarm of silsden boats. I've shared many a lock with a silsden boat and met a fair cross section of boaters hiring them. Having asked most of them what training they got the answer is consistently very little. They are given a DVD and told to watch it....

They do operate a big fleet so that probably doesn't help their cause but there is something not quite right....

Not my experience when we hired from Silsden boats though it was some time ago.

 

We were taken through the DVD in the office with other hire boaters and then talked through the boat and given some tuition.

 

Lock tuition is not possible though due to the location.

[NilesMI]

I was also a bit surprised to see so many widebeams from the Silsden hire fleet on the L&L. I found that provided you give them enough room, and even reversing out of their way on occasion, even the novice crews can get by.

 

Having said that, if I was hiring a boat on the L&L I would far prefer to have a narrow rather than a widebeam, just for the ease of getting through the pinch points such as swing bridges.

 

I shared with a crew of first time hirers with a (narrow) Silsden boat in the Gargrave locks. They had seen the video, and were fine with lock operation but still didn't understand how to turn the boat around, which they needed to do at some point if they were going to get back to base on time. It took some coaching from the towpath but the steerer did a great job of spinning the boat round in one of the pounds on the Bank Newton flight. Once they were pointing the right way home, they were happy as Larry.

[Guest]

Some people expect way too much of hire boat company tuition, often thinking it's possible to condense several weeks or months of experience of boating into a one hour handover. This is never going to be possible.

 

Equally of course hire boaters should do their own pre holiday reading up, plenty is available after all.

[Dalesman]

how the hell do you break windows on any narrow/wide beam boat by just navigating? I can see it been done by others with high bows like some GRP boats, but by yourself?

Plenty knock their windows out on the swing bridges on the L & L on a breezy day..

[Dalesman]

Some people expect way too much of hire boat company tuition, often thinking it's possible to condense several weeks or months of experience of boating into a one hour handover. This is never going to be possible.

 

Equally of course hire boaters should do their own pre holiday reading up, plenty is available after all.

I worked for Silsden Boats for a few years doing handovers to new crews in the days before they had DVDs, in those days we used a model lock to show ALL the new crews how to work it, plus they had a information on board which they could read up before getting to the first lock. They were all shown over the boat and given instructions on how to clear the prop,I always said it was ladies work..!!They were also told about the many swing bridges,electric,semi electric, and manual .Most crews took it all in but many just wanted to set sail ASAP and then blame the yard if they get into trouble later on, " No Instructions"..being the cry !!

[bizzard]

When I taught dinghy sailing we had a Tideway dinghy chocked up on the bank with sails hoisted, stitched up from my mums net curtains so that the wind blew through them without blowing it over. All sailing positions could be demonstrated no matter how strong the wind was blowing. The borough of Redbridge offered to buy my mum new ones.