Newbie - Boat purchase question

[Jobsworth]

Hi all. We are purchasing a Narrowboat as a liveaboard and have paid a deposit and commissioned a survey.

This has stated that the hull has been overplated badly previously in the stern/counter area.

This is obviously a cause for concern and we are wondering whether to walk away or have the work done.

The boat is 27 years old and we would be looking to keep it long term. Would it be worth doing the work (est£5,000+) to know that the hull was sound?

Apologies for the simple questions!

Steve

[the barnacle]

depends on the purchase cost - but not many 27 yr old boats wont of had work done - at least if you have the work done you know its right for the long term.

[Alan de Enfield]

It difficult to answer your question without knowing more about the boat and the price you are paying for it.

 

If you are paying 'market rate' for a boat that needs £5000 spending on it - walk away

If you are paying £10,000 less than market rate and it needs £5000 spending on it - buy it now.

 

Personally - as a 1st boat I would walk away and find one that I can use immediately without the spectre of it sinking hanging over my head.

[Bettie Boo]

More knowledgeable folks will be along shortly to give their advice I'm sure.

 

But in the meantime, could you give a bit more info regarding the boat...

 

Who is the builder?

 

Did you have a full survey done, or was it just a hull survey?

 

Was the surveyor in anyway associated with either the boat yard / seller from whom your buying it from?

 

Are you able to get a portion of the £5+K off the asking price?

 

Welcome to the forum and best of luck to you

[Jess--]

Gut reaction based on the condition of my 25 year old boat.....

 

at 27 years old the hull seems a little young to need overplating

[the barnacle]

is this the boat? https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/3631.aspx

[Alan de Enfield]

is this the boat? https://www.venetianmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/details/3631.aspx

 

If it is, and as an ex-hire boat with 5 fixed beds 2 bathroom/vanity sinks, no solid fuel fire and only 2 batteries, battery charger ?, Inverter ?, no 220v wiring circuit, its going to need a lot more than the £5k for overplating - probably at least the 'same again' to get it to liveaboard standard

Edited July 1, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[David Mack]

If the blacking and anodes haven't been done since 2009, then its perhaps not surprising that some hull work is required.

[Bettie Boo]

 

If it is, and as an ex-hire boat with 5 fixed beds 2 bathroom/vanity sinks, no solid fuel fire and only 2 batteries, battery charger ?, Inverter ?, no 220v wiring circuit, its going to need a lot more than the £5k for overplating - probably at least the 'same again' to get it to liveaboard standard

 

I was just about to say the same thing...well about the no solid fuel stove, only 2 batteries and no where for a washing machine, and to be fair, as a live aboard the Saloon doesn't look all that comfortable IMO

 

But to each their own...

[Greylady2]

Run away, even a couple of years old they turn into money pits.

 

Narrowboating aint cheap and were skint now.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Greylady2

[RLWP]

Run away, even a couple of years old they turn into money pits.

 

Narrowboating aint cheap and were skint now.

 

Ahhh, now I suspect that you wouldn't have said that before you bought a boat no matter how many people suggested it

 

Welcome to the club.

 

Richard

 

(recent victim of our boats desire for a bit of welding, please)

[OldGoat]

I thought that 'dip in the hull' feature was a Napton Narrowboats design, not Black Prince.

Built to a budget.

 

May be sensible to run away.

Methinks a dodgy back end might take a lot of work to correct - and what else hull-wise may need doing anyway.

£30K is a lot for a budget boat.....

 

(sorry....)

[pete harrison]

 

I was just about to say the same thing...well about the no solid fuel stove, only 2 batteries and no where for a washing machine, and to be fair, as a live aboard the Saloon doesn't look all that comfortable IMO

 

But to each their own...

I can't help thinking the term 'liveaboard' means different things to different people.

 

I lived very comfortably in a back cabin for 6 years, and I had no washing machine (washed clothes by hand or launderette). I did have a solid fuel stove (my only method of cooking) and I had two batteries (no inverters back then), one for the engine and one for domestic. My fresh water was kept in cans on the roof and the toilet was a 'bucket and chuckit'

 

If i was to look for a 'liveaboard' my requirements would be much lower than those items listed above, and this means even a former hire boat such as the OP is looking at could be considered as luxurious

[Jobsworth]

Thank you for the replies. We have obviously got a lot to think about and consider in the next few days.

We are learning all the time. Thanks again.

[Greylady2]

Ahhh, now I suspect that you wouldn't have said that before you bought a boat no matter how many people suggested it

 

Welcome to the club.

 

Richard

 

(recent victim of our boats desire for a bit of welding, please)

Omg 5k is just for bits n bobs, how daft was we. Lol

 

Yer welcome to the Skinty Club Richard, happy birthday and i am glad your ok.

Thank you for the replies. We have obviously got a lot to think about and consider in the next few days.

We are learning all the time. Thanks again.

Hey i hope you find a lovely boat but i would seriously walk away from a boat badly overplated.

 

Some wise person on here said to me ;

 

'Your boat finds you'

 

All the best dont give up on your dream.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Greylady2

[valrene9600]

Thank you for the replies. We have obviously got a lot to think about and consider in the next few days.

We are learning all the time. Thanks again.

Answer questions asked and you'll get more help.

[David Schweizer]

You do not say exactly how much plating has been done, or the nature of the plating. Most boats that have done a lot of work will need the sacrificial chines at the back end overplating well before the boat is 27 years old, so if that is the main issue, have the old plating removed, and get some new plating fully welded, not stitched, but that should cost no where near £5k.

 

If the hull sides are so badly pitted that they need re-plating, there is either someting wrong with the quality of steel it is made from, or there has been a significant lack of maintenance. Our boat was well built from high quality steel and has been blacked every other year. After 34 years it does not need overplating, and passed it's hull survey in that context last September. It did need a few feet of sacrificial chine overplating on the starboard front swim, but that is perfectly acceptable after 34 years.

Edited July 1, 2016 by David Schweizer

[Bettie Boo]

I can't help thinking the term 'liveaboard' means different things to different people.

 

I lived very comfortably in a back cabin for 6 years, and I had no washing machine (washed clothes by hand or launderette). I did have a solid fuel stove (my only method of cooking) and I had two batteries (no inverters back then), one for the engine and one for domestic. My fresh water was kept in cans on the roof and the toilet was a 'bucket and chuckit'

 

If i was to look for a 'liveaboard' my requirements would be much lower than those items listed above, and this means even a former hire boat such as the OP is looking at could be considered as luxurious

 

Truer words were never spoken Pete.

 

Some are happy with a bucket - others insist on a china bowl with a cushioned seat & lid

 

To Each their own

[Jobsworth]

Hi again. The boat is the one detailed above. The survey was done yesterday and we had a call from the surveyor to flag up the potential problems but we won't know exactly what is wrong until we get the report in the next few days.

He did say that the rest of the hull was fine. The area at the stern had been overplated and the weld around the patched area was not watertight. He didn't say that water was getting into the boat.

When we know exactly what we are looking at I'll be back for more advice.

[David Schweizer]

Hi again. The boat is the one detailed above. The survey was done yesterday and we had a call from the surveyor to flag up the potential problems but we won't know exactly what is wrong until we get the report in the next few days.

He did say that the rest of the hull was fine. The area at the stern had been overplated and the weld around the patched area was not watertight. He didn't say that water was getting into the boat.

When we know exactly what we are looking at I'll be back for more advice.

 

From what you are saying, it doesn't sound too bad, partially welded patches are always a bad thing, and usually only applied to Sacrificial chines. Hopefull that is where the problem is. If so, I would have the old plates taken off, the whole area dried thoroughly and new continuously welded plades adde. It should not cost too much to have it rectified.

[spadefoot]

Serious Question. Is 30K a sensible price for a 27 yr old ex-hire boat? Presumably well maintained whilst in the fleet, but seriously battered & crunched week after week for several years. Would it still have the original engine & box?

[David Schweizer]

Serious Question. Is 30K a sensible price for a 27 yr old ex-hire boat? Presumably well maintained whilst in the fleet, but seriously battered & crunched week after week for several years. Would it still have the original engine & box?

 

It all depends on how well the hire boat was built in the first place and how it has been maintained, Union Canal Carriers have some pretty old boats in their hire fleet. They were built by Roger Farrington, one of the best builders in the country, and have been well maintained. One of those would be a good second hand purchase (if they ever sold one!!)

 

As for original box and engine, it also depends on which box and engine, and how well they have been maintained. Many of the UCC boats have Sabb engines , maintained by Jonathon Hewwitt, they will be in first class condition.

Edited July 2, 2016 by David Schweizer

[Joe the plumber]

If I was looking at this boat, I'd be thinking that as it hasn't been blacked for seven years, the bad overplating was presumably done before or at the same time as that. This probably means it has had water trapped between the original hull and the new plate for all that time. That's not a good thing at all, especially when the original hull must have been thin for it to need overplating.

 

Our boat hadn't been blacked since 2012 when we bought it last year, and the remaining blacking could mostly be removed with a scrubbing brush. After seven years, unless it was done with something really special, that's far too long.

 

Personally, I wouldn't buy it regardless of the condition of the rest of the hull as it's clearly been the subject of prolonged neglect.

 

However there is a shortage of decent boats at the moment, and prices have risen due to the demand, so I can appreciate the OP's dilemma.

[Greylady2]

Prices have seriously rocketed compared to pre october last year its black and white.

 

Jobsworth all the best in finding a lovely boat but be carefull you dont let a dream get in the way when it comes to buying the right one.

 

With a bit of luck in september prices will drop and everyone will be getting nicer boats again for decent money.