Environment Agency Blues

[Bobbybass]

What kind of an organisation is this..?

 

I have just bought a boat from a broker on the Thames.

The broker sent the notification of sale to the EA...I applied for a license.

It's not here...so I phoned them up.

They told me "You cannot use the boat without displaying a 'plate'..or you will be committing a criminal offence and we WILL fine you".

 

I asked....."Do you have my application..or the notification of change of ownership?"....

 

Her answer was..."When the post comes in each day...we open it and put it in a pile...we then start from one end of the piles...and work through...so your application will be somewhere in there...along with another pile that has the sale notification. There are hundreds of applications...so I can't tell you if any of the documents have arrived..and your cheque will not be processed until we come to that pile..maybe in 10 working days "..

 

Note the 10 working days...so weekends are not included !

 

So somewhere....somewhen...they may find my application..maybe...and the sale notification...and maybe..my cheque....

 

Everything else...ie car tax..insurance...number plate transfer..is online...but the EA...have 'piles' !!

 

Considering that I have had to pay this license from January 1st until 31st December...with no rebates for the fact that nearly 5 months have expired...its nothing short of disgusting...

I'm almost tempted to get taken to court...and give it to the newspapers..

 

Where I live on the south coast...there are EA vans all over the place monitoring for floods..etc...

I wonder if they work on scraps of paper and 'piles'..?

 

 

[cereal tiller]

What kind of an organisation is this..? I have just bought a boat from a broker on the Thames. The broker sent the notification of sale to the EA...I applied for a license. It's not here...so I phoned them up. They told me "You cannot use the boat without displaying a 'plate'..or you will be committing a criminal offence and we WILL fine you". I asked....."Do you have my application..or the notification of change of ownership?".... Her answer was..."When the post comes in each day...we open it and put it in a pile...we then start from one end of the piles...and work through...so your application will be somewhere in there...along with another pile that has the sale notification. There are hundreds of applications...so I can't tell you if any of the documents have arrived..and your cheque will not be processed until we come to that pile..maybe in 10 working days ".. Note the 10 working days...so weekends are not included ! So somewhere....somewhen...they may find my application..maybe...and the sale notification...and maybe..my cheque.... Everything else...ie car tax..insurance...number plate transfer..is online...but the EA...have 'piles' !! Considering that I have had to pay this license from January 1st until 31st December...with no rebates for the fact that nearly 5 months have expired...its nothing short of disgusting... I'm almost tempted to get taken to court...and give it to the newspapers.. Where I live on the south coast...there are EA vans all over the place monitoring for floods..etc... I wonder if they work on scraps of paper and 'piles'..?

Buy a temporary licence a day, week or whatever time period you think the Annual will take to be Processed

 

The cost of the temporary one will be deducted from the Annual Licence

 

Ring the E.A. and arrange the Refund

 

CT

[Bobbybass]

Buy a temporary licence a day, week or whatever time period you think the Annual will take to be Processed

 

The cost of the temporary one will be deducted from the Annual Licence

 

Ring the E.A. and arrange the Refund

 

CT

 

Love to...but "I'm not allowed"

 

Because the boat has been previously registered for the Thames...they said I cannot have a visitor license...

[stagedamager]

But the EA process an annual licence as Apri 1st to March 31st I believe so you won't even get a 12 month one. Good luck!

[Bobbybass]

But the EA process an annual licence as Apri 1st to March 31st I believe so you won't even get a 12 month one. Good luck!

 

No...worse than that....

As I said in my 'post'.....it runs 1st January until 31st December....so I pay a year...and get 7 months !!!

[cereal tiller]

 

Love to...but "I'm not allowed"

 

Because the boat has been previously registered for the Thames...they said I cannot have a visitor license...

The system used to be much better,there was an office in Kings Meadow,Reading where you could purchase a licence over the Counter.

 

It is now all done at a Call centre in Rotherham and confusion abounds!

 

CT

[erivers]

What kind of an organisation is this..? I have just bought a boat from a broker on the Thames. The broker sent the notification of sale to the EA...I applied for a license. It's not here...so I phoned them up. They told me "You cannot use the boat without displaying a 'plate'..or you will be committing a criminal offence and we WILL fine you".

 

Probably best not to answer the first question!

 

The EA cannot fine you. You can be fined on summary conviction in a Magistrates Court for the offence of failing to register your boat. The EA would have to make a case against you and if you have taken adequate steps to register your boat and it meets the requirements for registration (i.e. BSC and insurance) then they would struggle with that. Given how occupied the EA's legal department is with other issues (mostly of their own making!) it is most unlikely that the EA would issue proceedings and even if they did, it would only be after a formal warning letter giving you several weeks to register.

 

Part 4, Section 20 of the EA(Inland Waterways) Order 2010 also provides the defence against conviction for failing to register of "due diligence" -

 

it is a defence for the person charged to prove that that person charged took all reasonable precautions and exercised all due diligence to avoid the commission of the offence.

 

If you have genuinely tried to register your boat as described then you have nothing to worry about.

 

Just use your boat and enjoy it. The licence will turn up eventually.

 

For now, you will just have to accept the total incompetence of the Environment Agency as a navigation authority - and not just in registration matters.

Edited May 24, 2016 by erivers

[magnetman]

 

Love to...but "I'm not allowed"

 

Because the boat has been previously registered for the Thames...they said I

cannot have a visitor license...

That seems very odd. If I were you I would just take the boat down (or up) the River and go along with advice from lock keepers. As it happens they are not entitled to stop you passing through locks unless your boat is deemed to clearly be a danger. You can go through as unlicensed and when they find out you have actually paid for a 12 month license from 1st January they will cancel any potential aggrevation.

 

Things can be different if you actively refuse to license the boat but if you have just bought it then get on with moving it to where you want it to be

 

 

(I may have cross posted with erivers )

 

 

Edited several times to rearrange the quoted post by bobbybass

Edited May 24, 2016 by magnetman

[Bobbybass]

That seems very odd. If I were you I would just take the boat down (or up) the River and go along with advice from lock keepers. As it happens they are not entitled to stop you passing through locks unless your boat is deemed to clearly be a danger. You can go through as unlicensed and when they find out you have actually paid for a 12 month license from 1st January they will cancel any potential aggrevation.

 

Things can be different if you actively refuse to license the boat but if you have just bought it then get on with moving it to where you want it to be

 

 

(I may have cross posted with erivers )

 

 

Edited several times to rearrange the quoted post by bobbybass

 

My first lock keeper...refused me access to the lock..(above Windsor).took my details..and said I would be fined as (whether I had applied or not) Non-display was an offence in itself.

 

If you can't get into the lock...you are rather scuppered !

[erivers]

 

My first lock keeper...refused me access to the lock..(above Windsor).took my details..and said I would be fined as (whether I had applied or not) Non-display was an offence in itself.

 

If you can't get into the lock...you are rather scuppered !

 

Then you really should report said lock-keeper for exceeding his authority and denying you your public right of navigation on the River Thames. His appropriate and lawful action would have been to remind you that you may be committing an offence by not displaying a licence and that he would report you for that offence. As you had taken all reasonable steps to register your vessel that's where it would have ended.

 

For the call-centre staff at Rotherham to make it up as they go along is just par for the course. For a Thames lock-keeper to do the same is inexcusable.

[magnetman]

AFAIK (and it may have changed) the lock keeper can not do that.

 

I realise at the point of use they may be able to imply that they can do that but I think you should check that out and possibly consider a complaint.

 

I agree of the lock keeper is obstinate then you have a problem at that point in time.

 

(Cross posted with erivers but seemed to say the same thing.

 

Was it Sonning lock or Caversham?

[erivers]

Sorry, magnetman. I seem to have beaten you by just seconds again!

[magnetman]

I am now wondering if the boat the OP has bought has a previous record of license evasion in the area and that the new owner (Bobbybass) is being tarred with the same brush as the previous owner simply because the lock keeper knows the boat.

Sorry, magnetman. I seem to have beaten you by just seconds again!

 

Edit to change a bit

Edited May 24, 2016 by magnetman

[Bobbybass]

I am now wondering if the boat the OP has bought has a previous record of license evasion in the area and that the new owner (Bobbybass) is being tarred with the same brush as the previous owner simply because the lock keeper knows the boat.

 

Possible...but I wouldn't have thought so.... Its a Jeanneau Leader 805...that was a millionaires 'spare boat'...

He had a big mansion at Windsor with a 40 footer...and also a house right on Marlow lock..where he had a 30 foot mooring so he wanted a 'shorter boat'...

 

Not to say...that such wealthy people are not lazy in the license department...

 

I don't think the lock keeper recognised it..he was just being arsey...

 

A complete change of boat type for me...as I lived on a 60 foot trad for 6 years...

Health means I can't 'lug' a narrowboat any more...so its plastic with a bow thruster..

Edited May 24, 2016 by Bobbybass

[magnetman]

 

Possible...but I wouldn't have thought so.... Its a Jeanneau Leader 805...that was a millionaires 'spare boat'...

He had a big mansion at Windsor with a 40 footer...and also a house right on Marlow lock..where he had a 30 foot mooring so he wanted a 'shorter boat'...

 

Not to say...that such wealthy people are not lazy in the license department...

 

I don't think the lock keeper recognised it..he was just being arsey...

 

A complete change of boat type for me...as I lived on a 60 foot trad for 6 years...

Health means I can't 'lug' a narrowboat any more...so its plastic with a bow thruster..

Maybe you had a volunteer lock keeper who had not been fully trained?

Which lock was it?

[stagedamager]

 

No...worse than that....

As I said in my 'post'.....it runs 1st January until 31st December....so I pay a year...and get 7 months !!!

Sorry. I missed that line!

As a thought. On Anglian Ea waters you pay half for 6 months or less. Is it worth holding out if they do the same?

[mark99]

Boveney?

 

Years ago I had a right old barney with the elderly lockie there. It got really loud.

Edited May 24, 2016 by mark99

[Phil Ambrose]

Sorry. I missed that line!

As a thought. On Anglian Ea waters you pay half for 6 months or less. Is it worth holding out if they do the same?

And the license period starts in April not January.

Phil

[magnetman]

Sorry. I missed that line!

As a thought. On Anglian Ea waters you pay half for 6 months or less. Is it worth holding out if they do the same?

I believe if you license after September on the Thames you can get a 50% discount (this is how it used to be - it may have been changed recently)

 

Other than that it is January 1st - December 31st

[Bobbybass]

I believe if you license after September on the Thames you can get a 50% discount (this is how it used to be - it may have been changed recently)

 

Other than that it is January 1st - December 31st

Yes......very generous of them...after 1st September you get less 50%

[Horace42]

Isn't this a case for CRT to take over from EA. Don't waste time with EA. Tell CRT. Tell IWA. Tell your MP. Tell everybody - like here!

 

But with the case in point, what do you do today. What would happen if you took your boat out without a license. Have the EA got an army of inspectors out catching license dodgers (but why? when they can't even process those queuing up to pay).

 

And if a lock keeper refused passage what could they actually do if you defied them. What if you went in when the gates were opened for other boats. At the worst your would get into a heated argument (with plenty of witnesses). At best, they would take your details and report you. They have no powers to physically prevent safe passage. Refusing to open the gates is not going to endear them to other boaters.

 

I appreciate you might be held up if you were the only boat and the lock-keeper refuses to open the gates, but in practical terms, unless they study you with binoculars from a distance or warned by phone/radio from previous locks, they will not know you do not have a license until you are in the lock itself - whereby you politely explain that you are not displaying a license due to 'incompetence' at the EA license office - no doubt you would be allowed to pass.

 

But I must admit, if like me, you are law-abiding; you don't want hassle, then it is a worry - but it won;t stop me doing what I think is right.

[Loafer]

Agreed. Just get on with your boating.

 

My experience of Thames Lockies is 50% old pompous gets, and 50% very decent people.

[Drayke]

What kind of an organisation is this..? I have just bought a boat from a broker on the Thames. The broker sent the notification of sale to the EA...I applied for a license. It's not here...so I phoned them up. They told me "You cannot use the boat without displaying a 'plate'..or you will be committing a criminal offence and we WILL fine you". I asked....."Do you have my application..or the notification of change of ownership?".... Her answer was..."When the post comes in each day...we open it and put it in a pile...we then start from one end of the piles...and work through...so your application will be somewhere in there...along with another pile that has the sale notification. There are hundreds of applications...so I can't tell you if any of the documents have arrived..and your cheque will not be processed until we come to that pile..maybe in 10 working days ".. Note the 10 working days...so weekends are not included ! So somewhere....somewhen...they may find my application..maybe...and the sale notification...and maybe..my cheque.... Everything else...ie car tax..insurance...number plate transfer..is online...but the EA...have 'piles' !! Considering that I have had to pay this license from January 1st until 31st December...with no rebates for the fact that nearly 5 months have expired...its nothing short of disgusting... I'm almost tempted to get taken to court...and give it to the newspapers.. Where I live on the south coast...there are EA vans all over the place monitoring for floods..etc... I wonder if they work on scraps of paper and 'piles'..?

Off Topic.

Had boat lifted out in 2014 at EA yard in Reading only got the bill in 2016, then they sent this as a final demand. Have heard of others in the same position.

[MtB]

I'm staggered you encountered a lock with a lock keeper actually on duty...

[gazza]

The drip drip of C&RT take over is probably still happening.

 

One very fundamental change is the abandoning of lock reversal on the Nene from June of this year.

Reasons given are the safety of the inspectors.

 

I will grab a shot of a communication our club has received tonight.

Those of you who wrongly think the Nene is a scary wild river may well have a point in the near future.

 

Watch this space.