Engine trouble after 7 months dry docked: advice needed

[Natface]

New to boating - We brought a 27 foot narrowboat end of last year and dry docked to do some interia work. However now back in the water we have engine trouble. The starter battery just about held out and on first start up the engine seemed to have survived the winter...within a minute or two we soon regretted the high five *head in hands as white smoke billowed out of the engust and the engine stopped and now ticks over but won't start up again. The fuel tank was almost full and the previous owner had a bottle of adative for water in the tank, so we thought we were on top of this. We've been advised it could be an airlock? The previous owner had all receipts for any work and had not long had a service done when filter and oil were changed.

 

Any advice would be a great help and we're hoping to get a service in the next few days to get us where we need to be

[Guest]

Exactly what my engine did when it picked up water from the fuel tank. If the filters have drain taps, I would run some diesel into a container and see if any water is in there. Mine did have, and we were able to pump water out of the bottom of the fuel tank with a long pipe on a hand pump. New filters, bleed though and off she went.

I would suspect that water has settled out of the diesel with the boat standing.

Can you say what type of engine it is, what filters are present etc?

Edited May 22, 2016 by Guest

[zenataomm]

.................white smoke billowed out of the engust and the engine stopped and now ticks over but won't start up again.

 

I'd get someone to seriously check the engust.

I've never heard of one ticking over once it's stopped, let alone when it won't start up again.

[Natface]

I'll try and locate the drain taps and give that a go. It's a Sole diesel mini 11, cylinder some kind of Mitsubishi make I think. I'm unsure of the filter type. I've been unable to move it from the boat yard so I'm going to ask tomorrow for someone to point me in the right direction maybe even get it services again?

[Natface]

Incorrect use of words...not ticking over but trying to start, making the engine starting sound. Brilliantly clever sarcastic remark! Well done you

[RLWP]

Pretty mild and normal banter here, you'll get used to it

 

this bit:

 

"white smoke billowed out of the exhaust"

 

One possibility is unburnt fuel from one of the cylinders which could suggest a failed injector. Another is burnt oil. The smell would be quite different though

 

If it was an airlock, the engine wouldn't run at all, or wouldn't start properly.

 

The problem is, standing for seven months out of the water over winter could lead to all sorts of trouble, not necessarily serious

 

Richard

[Boat&Bikes]

Hi, engine turns over but won't start then. It is more than likely water in the fuel supply. Hopefully an easy fix. Not sure how well up on Diesel engines you are so I suggest you find a mechanic/mate that understands. It's a simple fix, won't be expensive.

[RLWP]

Hi, engine turns over but won't start then. It is more than likely water in the fuel supply.

 

But why? Our engine has stood for as long as that and started fine

 

Richard

[cereal tiller]

 

But why? Our engine has stood for as long as that and started fine

 

Richard

The Fuel filler cap may have been letting rainwater in all Winter?

 

CT

[RLWP]

The Fuel filler cap may have been letting rainwater in all Winter?

 

CT

 

That would be a very shoddy filler cap

 

Good point

 

Richard

[Boat&Bikes]

But why? Our engine has stood for as long as that and started fine

 

Richard

Yes I agree lots of engines will be fine after long periods without running. I think this one had water in the diesel tank that once back in the water, after no movement for months has been sucked into the injectors.

[cereal tiller]

 

That would be a very shoddy filler cap

 

Good point

 

Richard

All it takes is an O ring missing or perished on the flush to deck type

 

CT

[NB Lola]

Injectors not heating

[RLWP]

All it takes is an O ring missing or perished on the flush to deck type

 

CT

 

You wouldn't believe how crude out filler is. O rings are at least three technological advances ahead of it

 

It doesn't let water in though*

 

Richard

 

* all that I knew was the hole in my shoe...

[Paul C]

Engine turning over and not starting is a bit of a red herring, it can only be interpreted to mean the battery/starter motor is okay and the motor's not seized - but we'd expect those items to have been checked anyway.

 

Glow plugs not working - if they don't work, they did on the first startup - I suppose its possible some wires have been knocked in subsequent checking etc

 

Dodgy fuel or water in the fuel - sounds about right. One way to test for this (which everyone will moan at!!!!) is to use some easy start, this will show for troubleshooting reasons that the engine can work. Also if the glowplugs don't work, it will start on easy-start fluid/spray. If it runs only on feeding it with easy start then its something to do with fuelling.

 

I'd expect an engine which has stood for a period of time to smoke a bit anyway, especially a diesel. So don't take the presence of smoke as a fault as such. Obviously the not running is an issue though.

Injectors not heating

 

Do you mean glow plugs not heating?

[cereal tiller]

Engine turning over and not starting is a bit of a red herring, it can only be interpreted to mean the battery/starter motor is okay and the motor's not seized - but we'd expect those items to have been checked anyway.

 

Glow plugs not working - if they don't work, they did on the first startup - I suppose its possible some wires have been knocked in subsequent checking etc

 

Dodgy fuel or water in the fuel - sounds about right. One way to test for this (which everyone will moan at!!!!) is to use some easy start, this will show for troubleshooting reasons that the engine can work. Also if the glowplugs don't work, it will start on easy-start fluid/spray. If it runs only on feeding it with easy start then its something to do with fuelling.

 

I'd expect an engine which has stood for a period of time to smoke a bit anyway, especially a diesel. So don't take the presence of smoke as a fault as such. Obviously the not running is an issue though.

 

Do you mean glow plugs not heating?

Easy start is ok if the Engine is being cranked over by the starter and the Ether spray is used in short bursts a couple of feet away from the air intake,use sparingly ,excessive amounts will cause severe damage.

 

The 'Smoke 'the O.P. reported may have been water beginning to mix with the fuel which would produce a substantial Vapour trail for a few seconds before the Engine stopped

[ditchcrawler]

Started, ran for 2 minutes and then stopped sounds to me like water in the diesel tank, started and ran on what is in the filters until the water arrived. If it was heaters it wouldn't have started in the first place IMO

[RLWP]

Started, ran for 2 minutes and then stopped sounds to me like water in the diesel tank

 

 

Started, ran for 2 minutes and then stopped sounds to me like water air in the diesel tank line to me, for much the same reasons

 

And I'm guessing too

 

Richard

[Dalslandia]

2 min with the short fuel lines on a NB i think it is not air, but can be, air drawn from the pre filter or so, but water sounds more likely.

I helped my brother in law yesterday, with leaky pump outlets on his MD17C so still smell diesel, I would help you if I was closer.

 

Welcome to this forum by the way. political correctness isn't nessesssereeely, but boating and engine lingo is.

[Tony Brooks]

Injectors not heating

 

?????? can I now be sarcastic?

 

I think you mean glow plugs not heating. Injectors do not heat, they just squirt a fine mist of fuel. I am not even sure the Sole uses glow plugs but if it is a Mitsubishi unit it probably does but failed glow plugs would give different symptom order.

 

 

 

Just notices Paul got in first.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Tony Brooks

[NB Lola]

 

?????? can I now be sarcastic?

 

I think you mean glow plugs not heating. Injectors do not heat, they just squirt a fine mist of fuel. I am not even sure the Sole uses glow plugs but if it is a Mitsubishi unit it probably does but failed glow plugs would give different symptom order.

 

 

 

Just notices Paul got in first.

Yeah!

[Chewbacka]

So it started and ran fine for a minute or so, then produced lots of white smoke and stopped.

Will now crank (turns over) but not start, so it is not seized.

 

I do not claim to be expert in diesel engines, but initially what can the op check?

 

To me this sounds like water in the cylinder or lack of fuel

 

Lack of fuel - I am assuming that the diesel supply cocks (probably there are 2, one for supply and one for return) for the engine were turned on. if not the engine will run for a short while and not restart.

Where can water come from? I think given the history 2 places are probable.

1) Water in the fuel

2) Head gasket gone/internal engine damage as in dry dock all winter, possible freezing risk.

Check the coolant concentration, if ok this is not probable

 

So back to (1). Check the agglomerator/water filter (if you have one) by opening the little tap at the bottom. If an amount of water comes out this needs fixing.

To fix try drawing off water from the bottom of the tank by either using the drain point, or putting a tube to the bottom of the tank and pumping the water into a container. While doing this, check that the diesel is not black and gungy which would indicate diesel bug. If it's bad the fuel filter could be blocked giving fuel starvation.

 

If you are not confident in doing these checks - especially if you need to start bleeding the fuel system - get some one that is.

 

Unfortunately these problems have to be solved by a process of elimination coupled with know-how to check the most probable first, so may take someone a couple of hours to diagnose.

[MtB]

One point not yet mentioned, if this IS water in the fuel it needs dealing with now, not in a day or three.

 

Leaving water lying in the injectors for long can result in them being damaged beyond repair.

[Guest]

The Fuel filler cap may have been letting rainwater in all Winter?

 

CT

Exactly what mine did. The gasket had failed as well as the seal to the deck. I change the rubber seal frequently at the outrageous sum of 70p a go

Maybe overkill, Iv'e been ridiculed on here for same before, but I''ll live with that

I don't like those brass fillers, and would have an arrangement like my previous boat another time (BSP stub welded to deck with female BSP cap/blank screwed on; far better IMHO.)

One point not yet mentioned, if this IS water in the fuel it needs dealing with now, not in a day or three.

 

Leaving water lying in the injectors for long can result in them being damaged beyond repair.

Very true sir.

[Natface]

Thank you for all you're kind replies!!!!

I've called a local mobile engineer out to take a look just to be on the safe side.I'll be watching his every move and asking as many questions as poss so to learn as much and maybe start to tackle some problems myself in future.

 

I'll also politely point out the potential problems as stated, just to give him a head start

 

I'll inform the post with progress later