Boat Identification, Please - Likely part of Small Northwich

[alan_fincher]

This picture has been posted on Facebook by Junior of this forum.



Nobody has yet come up with a positive ID of what is forming the bows of this boat, but by my reckoning it is Small Northwich, and as there is only a short length of it, probably it is the modified stern of a butty that has been cut to form a motor conversion.

If it is part of a Small Northwich butty, then there were only 12 built, and most are eliminated from the possibilities, by either still being complete, or the fate of their stern known to me, (the latter to include Lepus and Toucan).

I'm wondering if it may be the stern end of "Lynx", which, at least at some stage was called "Lynx End", but I'm basing that purely on not immediately being able to think of any other possibility. If so it would be Malcolm Braines work, I think.

So can anybody please definitely identify this boat. (I don't think its location was stated).

[Laurence Hogg]

Lynx End, certainly in with a chance, sympathetic work to the bow shows a knowledgeable boat builder at work, plus the conversion looks right for a NC job.

[dave moore]

It certainly looks like one of Malcolm's to me. Classic lines!

 

Dave

[junior]

Funny you should post this Alan. I was thinking in bed last night that if nobody on Facebook had the answer I would post it on here to see if the likes of Laurence or Pete had the answer.

 

I tried to have a look at the license disk when I went past, without looking like a nosey Parker. I couldn't make out the name from it but Lynx End does fit with the fact it looked like a double barrelled name.

It certainly looks like one of Malcolm's to me. Classic lines!

 

Dave

Beautiful lines.

 

Now I'm no uber rivet counter so it had me fooled, mainly on the basis that the stem post looked much more 'real' than other forward facing butty stern conversions I've seen.

[IanM]

Now I'm no uber rivet counter so it had me fooled, mainly on the basis that the stem post looked much more 'real' than other forward facing butty stern conversions I've seen.

 

I was thinking the same. Nice looking boat

[alan_fincher]

Beautiful lines.

 

Now I'm no uber rivet counter so it had me fooled, mainly on the basis that the stem post looked much more 'real' than other forward facing butty stern conversions I've seen.

 

I also get the impression that on the Small Northwich boats the hull shape at the rear is closer to that of the front than may be the case with the Woolwich equivalent? Often the Woolwich ones are very obviously not a front end.

 

The thought this is a back end rather than a front is strengthened by the following.....

 

1) It only forms a small part of the boat - most of the real boat will have been retained with the front end

2) It lacks the rise to the sides rearward of the deck - why would you remove such an original feature

3) The lid to the locker is not an original item - it doesn't even look close to my eyes

 

It's an unusual "conversion", as it seems not to have a conventional engine room and back cabin - something normally regarded as almost mandatory on a boat with historic bits in it.

Lynx End, certainly in with a chance, sympathetic work to the bow shows a knowledgeable boat builder at work, plus the conversion looks right for a NC job.

 

Depending on when done, I would often have expected a Braine boat to be wooden cabined originally, whereas this looks steel.

 

However there are other boats out there where a timber and Masonite Braine cabin has sunsequently been changed to steel, so that might be a possibity here, I think?

 

If it is his, it would be interesting to see the counter - often they are what spoils his work, (to my eyes, at least).

[junior]

 

I also get the impression that on the Small Northwich boats the hull shape at the rear is closer to that of the front than may be the case with the Woolwich equivalent? Often the Woolwich ones are very obviously not a front end.

 

The thought this is a back end rather than a front is strengthened by the following.....

 

1) It only forms a small part of the boat - most of the real boat will have been retained with the front end

2) It lacks the rise to the sides rearward of the deck - why would you remove such an original feature

3) The lid to the locker is not an original item - it doesn't even look close to my eyes

 

It's an unusual "conversion", as it seems not to have a conventional engine room and back cabin - something normally regarded as almost mandatory on a boat with historic bits in it.

Quotes 1,2 & 3 also rather impressively from a 15 year old! Edited May 5, 2016 by junior

[alan_fincher]

I tried to have a look at the license disk when I went past, without looking like a nosey Parker.

 

Where's the picture taken, please?

[junior]

 

Where's the picture taken, please?

Near the M54 road bridge at the bottom of the Shroppie. I think the boat moors at Hatherton/Calf Heath marina.

[Athy]

 

 

It's an unusual "conversion", as it seems not to have a conventional engine room and back cabin - something normally regarded as almost mandatory on a boat with historic bits in it.

I suppose that if it didn't originally have an engine at all, then the positioning of the engine in the conversion/ new build would not be as "mandatory" as on a former working motor boat. Then there's the owner's preference/ degree of eccentricity to take into account: last weekend a boater whose craft was built about 2008 was proudly showing me his burnished Gardner 2LW - which was under the floorboards of his cruiser stern!

 

This boat does have pleasingly clean lines.

[alan_fincher]

Near the M54 road bridge at the bottom of the Shroppie. I think the boat moors at Hatherton/Calf Heath marina.

 

Ah,

 

Kind of surprised, as that's somewhere I have been a few times, and I don't recognise it. Mind you if it were in the marina, not on line, I could have missed it!

This boat does have pleasingly clean lines.

 

Yes, and nice to see an unashamed array of "bus windows". So many people seem to think they are out of place on such a boat, but what is more out of place is lopping the back end off one boat, refashioning it into the front of another, (so it is travelling backwards), and then building a big box over the lot. Who can possibly then dictate what the "correct" window type is when the boat has come about in that way!

[Laurence Hogg]

Yes, and nice to see an unashamed array of "bus windows". So many people seem to think they are out of place on such a boat, but what is more out of place is lopping the back end off one boat, refashioning it into the front of another, (so it is travelling backwards), and then building a big box over the lot. Who can possibly then dictate what the "correct" window type is when the boat has come about in that way!

Those are not bus windows, they are a common type in use in the 1970/80's by various yards and came mainly from Cauldwells or Worcester Yacht supplies, some being distributed through recognised chandler supply lines ie Simpson Lawrence etc.

Edited May 5, 2016 by Laurence Hogg

[Athy]

Those are not bus windows, they are a common type in use in the 1970/80's by various yards

Yes, and popularly known as "bus windows" to distinguish them from portholes. I don't suppose that any of them actually came off old 'buses.

[Laurence Hogg]

Yes, and popularly known as "bus windows" to distinguish them from portholes. I don't suppose that any of them actually came off old 'buses.

Keays used loads of old bus windows at their yard as they backed onto Birchills bus depot where most of the old buses and trolley bus fleets met their end.If they were in good condition they were fine and very well made. I also supplied a number of ex locomotive side windows formerly from Class55 "Deltic" locomotives to some yards in London area.

[Athy]

Keays used loads of old bus windows at their yard as they backed onto Birchills bus depot where most of the old buses and trolley bus fleets met their end.If they were in good condition they were fine and very well made. I also supplied a number of ex locomotive side windows formerly from Class55 "Deltic" locomotives to some yards in London area.

Well, we live and learn. Thanks LH, I never knew that.

[alan_fincher]

Those are not bus windows, they are a common type in use in the 1970/80's by various yards and came mainly from Cauldwells or Worcester Yacht supplies, some being distributed through recognised chandler supply lines ie Simpson Lawrence etc.

 

Which is why I put "bus" in inverted commas, of course.

 

As a former bus driver, I know they are not real bus windows, but that is the familiar and slightly derogatory term used by many in the 'portholes versus "bus" windows' debate.

[Paul H]

Yes it appears to be Lynx End but the cabin has been refurbished in the last few years with new and certainly extra windows.

 

Paul

[alan_fincher]

Yes it appears to be Lynx End but the cabin has been refurbished in the last few years with new and certainly extra windows.

 

Paul

Thank you Paul - I was hoping you would pop up - you seem to be able to identify boats that some of can only make inspired guesses as to identity.

[Derek R.]

There were also several types of bus window. Those as fitted to London Transport RT, RF, & RM were of the quarter/half opening wind down/up type, and such were fitted to ALCOR in 1979 when we went to view. I wouldn't say such were fitted to many craft though.

[pete harrison]

This boat is definitely the stern section of the small Northwich butty LYNX, which became the 62' pleasure boat LYNX END in 1978. On conversion LYNX END was fitted with a B.M.C. 1.5 diesel engine.

 

I took 3 photographs of LYNX END at Calf Heath Marina on 15 April 2001, and at that time the cabin / fore deck / top bends / deck board were all painted in red oxide. Perhaps the cabin works suggested by 'Paul H' resulted in the extensive use of the red oxide paint

 

Lynx End Built by Braine Btblders Ltd - Length : 18.29 metres ( 60 feet ) - Beam : 2.09 metres ( 6 feet 10 inches ) - Draft : 0.71 metres ( 2 feet 4 inches ). Metal hull N/A power of 15 HP. Registered with Canal & River Trust number 69564 as a Powered Motor Boat. ( Last updated on Wednesday 22nd May 2013 )

Edited May 5, 2016 by pete harrison

[alan_fincher]

There were also several types of bus window. Those as fitted to London Transport RT, RF, & RM were of the quarter/half opening wind down/up type, and such were fitted to ALCOR in 1979 when we went to view. I wouldn't say such were fitted to many craft though.

I was desperately trying to find a picture of "Middle Northwich" butty renamed "Powys Princess" as a trip boat, which has been posted before.

 

The trouble is that the picture that was previously linked to was in Matt Parrott's former "gusickle" site, sadly no longer extant.

 

"Powys Princess" certainly had "bus windows" and lots of them (!)

 

Can anybody locate a picture of it?

[AMModels]

 

Is it this one Alan? Google search throws it up as formerly being on Matts site.

[Laurence Hogg]

I was desperately trying to find a picture of "Middle Northwich" butty renamed "Powys Princess" as a trip boat, which has been posted before.

 

The trouble is that the picture that was previously linked to was in Matt Parrott's former "gusickle" site, sadly no longer extant.

 

"Powys Princess" certainly had "bus windows" and lots of them (!)

 

Can anybody locate a picture of it?

"Powys Princess" had the complete top deck of a bus as the conversion, it didn't look bad and worked very well for years.

Here it is in 1973:

 

[alan_fincher]

"Powys Princess" had the complete top deck of a bus as the conversion, it didn't look bad and worked very well for years.

Yes, that's the one.

 

Actually it must be two bus top decks, as a bus like that is less than 30 feet long.

[junior]

"Powys Princess" had the complete top deck of a bus as the conversion, it didn't look bad and worked very well for years.Here it is in 1973:

why is there a car stuck halfway up a telegraph pole?