Question on my boat fit for sea use. cruiser not NB.

[Sir Nibble]

Trailer her down to the Solent for a weekend. Sheltered water and lots of lovely cruising destinations close together with fuel, water, pump out etc. Like a big bumpy salty canal.

[nebulae]

My first boat was a plywood contraption built from a kit. At the age of 8 I was poddling about in the Solent with my Seagull 40-Calshot and Cowes regular destinations.First lesson I learned was a deep respect for the sea.60 years later,still learning. Nothing wrong with a 20ft cruiser for limited coastal cruising. Basic stuff,check the weather,carry enough fuel,have lifejackets,good ground tackle, take local advice,charts as necessary and know how to read them .Dont expect other people to run around after you if you get in trouble. I cant understand why some people have a problem with V.H.F. The sets are cheap,the course I did was £90 at a commercial training centre.

[rasputin]

 

Incorrect.

 

No licence if only capable of transmitting on Channels M1/M2 (no use for general use and contacting other boats - Coastguard monitor Ch16).

 

It is a legal requirement if you own a vhf set. Emergency transmissions only can be made by anyone.

 

Sticking it in a locker doesn't exempt you from obtaining the radio licence (which is free IIRC). You then need to do the VHF course to enable you to use it properly - which you pay for.

 

http://www.rya.org.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/legal/Web%20Documents/Legal%20Leaflets/Clubs/Laws%20and%20Regulations/VHF%20RADIO%20REGULATIONS.pdf

 

 

I have read the link and still can't see where it is a legal requirement to have a licence for a hand held VHF

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

I have read the link and still can't see where it is a legal requirement to have a licence for a hand held VHF

 

Every individual HH VHF radio must be licensed.

 

From the OFCOM website :

 

Do I need a special licence? Will my existing Ship Radio Licence cover it? Must I vary my existing licence?

You must have a separate Ship Portable Radio Licence for each hand held VHF DSC radio. This is because each individual radio is given a separate identity. The apparatus must not be used outwith UK territorial sea. So, it cannot be covered by a normal Ship Radio Licence, as this does not impose any territorial restrictions. If you already have a Ship Portable Radio Licence, you should ensure that it includes hand held VHF DSC. If it does not, you can change it online, free of charge.

 

Edit to add :

 

Enforcing the Radio Regulations in the UK The Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006 (WT Act) is the primary legislation enforcing the Radio Regulations and determining the rules for radio use in the UK. The WT Act makes it an offence to have radio transmission equipment available for use without a licence, unless the equipment has been specifically exempted from licensing. The installation and use of maritime radio transmission equipment, including hand portables, must be covered by a WT Act licence. Ofcom is responsible for managing use of the civil radio spectrum in the UK, and for implementing the Radio Regulations in the UK.

 

Note the fact that if the radio is 'available' (even in a cupboard ?) then it must legally be licenced.

 

I have 3 fixed VHFs and 3 HH VHFs, in addition to the licences for these I also have to include the Radar and EPIRB as these are classed as 'transmitting' RF.

 

The registration / licencing is free of charge - it used to be £15 per year but the administration cost was more than the fees obtained.

 

I really don't see the problem with complying with the law - particularly when there is no charge in doing so.

 

Edited May 2, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[rasputin]

But now you are talking about a DSC licence, for the first bit.

 

The second bit is confusing because it changes between use and Installed, It cannot possibly state that the possession of a hand held radio without a licence is an offence. It can state that installing a fixed radio on a boat without a licence is an offence.

Edited May 2, 2016 by rasputin

[Alan de Enfield]

But now you are talking about a DSC licence

 

You really are 'hard work'.

 

Read what has been written (particularly the parts in RED that I highlighted thinking it would make it easier for you)

 

If I extract this part : The installation and use of maritime radio transmission equipment, including hand portables, must be covered by a WT Act licence does that simplify it for you ?

 

Alternatively read the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006

Edited May 2, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Sea Dog]

Trailer her down to the Solent for a weekend. Sheltered water and lots of lovely cruising destinations close together with fuel, water, pump out etc. Like a big bumpy salty canal.

 

I see where you're coming from, but that advice needs to come with just a wee health warning. Lovely on a nice day, but that can change very quickly. With double tides, moving shoals, sandbanks and some very confused waters where tidal streams meet , the Solent can be quite a navigational challenge. Add to that a very busy old waterway, full of inexperienced sailors in small boats , Hooray Henries with all the gear and no idea , kamikazi hooligans on jet skis unconstrained by maritime conventions , etc, and with a lot of big commercial traffic, often 'constrained by draught', which therefore isn't going to alter course for you. What those big guys will sometimes do before running you over (providing that they have seen you, which isn't always a given) is call you on VHF to make clear their intentions and ask for yours, but if you have to hide your unlicenced VHF set in the bottom of a cupboard for emergency use only.....

[Murflynn]

 

You really are 'hard work'.

 

Read what has been written (particularly the parts in RED that I highlighted thinking it would make it easier for you)

 

If I extract this part : The installation and use of maritime radio transmission equipment, including hand portables, must be covered by a WT Act licence does that simplify it for you ?

 

Alternatively read the Wireless Telegraphy Act 2006

doesn't prohibit having possession of .....

[Alan de Enfield]

doesn't prohibit having possession of .....

 

I guess that's how Solicitors make so much money - my understanding of the law (as quoted by Ofcom)

 

"The WT Act makes it an offence to have radio transmission equipment available for use without a licence"

 

Is obviously very different to your interpretation.

 

I would propose that 'having possession' is the same as 'having it available' (unless Ofcom are going the same route as C&RT and inventing their own rules)

 

As far as I know it is not illegal to possess a 'receiver' but it is a 'transceiver' (without a licence)

 

From Ofcom :

 

What if I don’t get a radio licence?

The fines for unlicensed radio use are severe, reflecting the problems that illegal use can cause. If you use radio without a licence, or you contravene the terms of your licence, you can expect a fine of up to £5,000 or a custodial sentence of up to six months, as well as forfeiture of your radio equipment, through a magistrate's court. If you request trial through the Crown Court, the fine is unlimited and the custodial sentence can be up to two years, again with forfeiture of the equipment involved.

 

FAQs on the RYA website :

 

It is still a legal requirement for vessel owners that have radio equipment with access to international channels on board their vessel, to have an up-to-date radio licence. They must keep these on board where practicable and in any case must be kept on board if the vessel is taken abroad. Owners that do not hold a valid licence may be fined up to £5000 and face a prison sentence of up to 6 months.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[howardang]

 

I guess that's how Solicitors make so much money - my understanding of the law (as quoted by Ofcom)

 

"The WT Act makes it an offence to have radio transmission equipment available for use without a licence"

 

Is obviously very different to your interpretation.

 

I would propose that 'having possession' is the same as 'having it available' (unless Ofcom are going the same route as C&RT and inventing their own rules)

 

As far as I know it is not illegal to possess a 'receiver' but it is a 'transceiver' (without a licence)

 

From Ofcom :

 

What if I don’t get a radio licence?

The fines for unlicensed radio use are severe, reflecting the problems that illegal use can cause. If you use radio without a licence, or you contravene the terms of your licence, you can expect a fine of up to £5,000 or a custodial sentence of up to six months, as well as forfeiture of your radio equipment, through a magistrate's court. If you request trial through the Crown Court, the fine is unlimited and the custodial sentence can be up to two years, again with forfeiture of the equipment involved.

 

But Alan, you are forgetting his inalienable right through the "Freedom of the Seas" to throw the rule book out of the window. Rules are there to be got round.

 

Howard

[RLWP]

 

"The WT Act makes it an offence to have radio transmission equipment available for use without a licence"

 

Is obviously very different to your interpretation.

 

I would propose that 'having possession' is the same as 'having it available' (unless Ofcom are going the same route as C&RT and inventing their own rules)

 

I'm going to have a swift kick at this ball. I imagine you could have a shop full of them with no batteries and not need a license, which I imagine is what the wording is meant to cover

 

And - I'm out

 

Richard

 

Who was that masked stranger?

[rasputin]

The stuff you are quoting it not the act, it is an interpretation of the act.

 

The act states,"A person who commits an offence under this section consisting in the establishment or use of a wireless telegraphy station, or the installation or use of wireless telegraphy apparatus, for the purpose of making a broadcast is liable—"etc

 

Note installation, and use, not possession.

 

If it was possession the postie would be breaking the law, as would anybody handling a radio without a licence.

[Alan de Enfield]

We are obviously not going to agree on this, I'll keep my radios licenced (I need to produce the licence when travelling anyway)

You keep yours in the cupboard.

 

I really do not understand your reluctance to licence your radio - it costs nothing and gives you a call sign.

What call sign will you use when you get the radio out of the cupboard ?

[Murflynn]

 

What call sign will you use when you get the radio out of the cupboard ?

''HELP!!!!''

[Alan de Enfield]

''HELP!!!!''

 

That'll do good buddy - 10:4 catch you on the flip-flop. Watch out for the smokies.

[Klanky]

The stuff you are quoting it not the act, it is an interpretation of the act.

 

The act states,"A person who commits an offence under this section consisting in the establishment or use of a wireless telegraphy station, or the installation or use of wireless telegraphy apparatus, for the purpose of making a broadcast is liable—"etc

 

Note installation, and use, not possession.

 

If it was possession the postie would be breaking the law, as would anybody handling a radio without a licence.

 

Incorrect.

 

Read your own post - the bit I've highlighted. "Or use of..."

 

Like it or not, argue the toss all you want, it ain't going to change the fact. You need a free licence for the set and VHF operators licence to be fully legal with a fixed or handheld.

 

For the record, I spent time in the North of Scotland as a Coastguard Rescue Officer (Wick) up until moving to Shetland. The MCA/Coastguard line was that they will not actively bother persons owning and using unlicenced VHF kit providing it was operated competently ie: following proper procedures. Abuse it and you'll get your arse kicked into court. The reasoning for this is because they would like to see all seagoing recreational vessels using VHF as opposed to mobiles (or, sadly, nothing at all). A lot better to deal with from a rescue angle.

 

You'll never get a row off the local Coastguard for using an unlicenced VHF - unless some fatwah is issued from upon high which changes this attitude, or you prat around.

 

But do the course, it's worth it anyway.

 

 

And out.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Klanky

[rasputin]

Yes I see the highlight, establishment, or use, not possession . I am aware that it is not legal to use one, but that isn't what I have said.

 

Oh, and as stated earlier I do have a licence and certificate.

Edited May 2, 2016 by rasputin

[rasputin]

We are obviously not going to agree on this, I'll keep my radios licenced (I need to produce the licence when travelling anyway)

You keep yours in the cupboard.

 

I really do not understand your reluctance to licence your radio - it costs nothing and gives you a call sign.

What call sign will you use when you get the radio out of the cupboard ?

 

Call sign. I have never used a call sign. Have you?

[thebfg]

I am fortunate enough to have gone to sea in a variety of boats with no training whatsoever.

 

It looks to me that you are the type of guy who does things properly,

 

Take a spare engine and a Radio and learn how to use it then go and have fun.

 

Here here, I'm an unqualified mariner too.

 

I'm often out bass fishing on a kayak or a 14ft day boat out in the solent.

 

I always take a radio, one of these days I will get a licence, round here its useful to listen to the port authority and shipping movements,

 

The phone Is enough to contact people in an emergency, but the radio is there just in case.

 

Strangely i've been further out on the sea yak than I have a boat. But I am prepared, take some warm clothes in a dry bag in case the weather turns.

 

I have an emergencey beacon and some flares.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Call sign. I have never used a call sign. Have you?

 

Yes

[Giant]

one problem is getting on a course.

 

Bristol Adult Education lists the course, but each time I applied (3 times) I was later told that the course was cancelled through lack of numbers.

 

my need wasn't critical enough for me to travel to Southampton, so I didn't bother.

 

never used my handheld VHF set anyway.

 

You can do the course online from your own computer. You still need to go and take the exam in person once you've finished the course, but that may be easier to arrange than the whole course.

[Klanky]

Yes I see the highlight, establishment, or use, not possession . I am aware that it is not legal to use one, but that isn't what I have said.

 

Oh, and as stated earlier I do have a licence and certificate.

 

Possession/use of/ is covered by Section 36 of the 2006 Wireless and Telegraphy Act:

 

 

Keeping available for unauthorised use

 

(1)A person who has a wireless telegraphy station or wireless telegraphy apparatus in his possession or under his control commits an offence if—

(a)he intends to use it in contravention of section 8; or

 

(b he knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, that another person intends to use it in contravention of that section.

 

In other words, you cannot just have an unlicenced set in locker.

 

Apologies for the comment about doing the course, it wasn't aimed at yourself. I meant the OP.

Edited May 3, 2016 by Klanky

[Murflynn]

this is getting almost as good as the discussions about continuous mooring cruising.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Possession/use of/ is covered by Section 36 of the 2006 Wireless and Telegraphy Act:

 

 

Keeping available for unauthorised use

 

(1)A person who has a wireless telegraphy station or wireless telegraphy apparatus in his possession or under his control commits an offence if—

(a)he intends to use it in contravention of section 8; or

 

(b he knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, that another person intends to use it in contravention of that section.

 

In other words, you cannot just have an unlicenced set in locker.

 

Apologies for the comment about doing the course, it wasn't aimed at yourself. I meant the OP.

 

But the counter argument will now be " I don't intend to use it, or I have no knowledge that any other person intends to use it"

 

Sometimes we jus have to accept that we are :

 

 

 

Those that shout the loudest about 'freedom and unfairness' are those generally not complying with the rules.

 

I'm compliant, you are compliant, if the 'others' cannot be bothered - "Sod-Em"

[rasputin]

 

But the counter argument will now be " I don't intend to use it, or I have no knowledge that any other person intends to use it"

 

 

 

Quite right. and therefore you can have a handheld in your locker, or even on your person and listen to it as long as you have no intention of using it for broadcasting.

 

I am surprised so many of you are unaware of this.

 

And what a good thing that is for safety.

Edited May 3, 2016 by rasputin