Stoke Bruerne £25 per day after two days

[Loafer]

Sorry I thought it was an understood abbreviation Mother in Law.

 

Don't apologise, it's me who's the thickie!

[Jerra]

My brother was a liveaboard for many years and had a disability which made it difficult to walk. He never expected special treatment. He'd just moor where he could. There are some disabled moorings by the way.

 

 

I am well aware there are some disabled moorings but like the mobility spaces in car parks they are often occupied by boats where nobody seems to have any mobility problems. (Before a pedant jumps in I know you don't get boats in mobility spaces in car parks).

 

Incidentally many seem to think the blue badge is for handicaps where as it is purely according to the rules a mobility badge.

But I digress. I assume your brother was pleased when he could get to a VM and it was near facilities e.g. pubs. Of course you can moor not on VMs we have moored in places where MIL couldn't get to the wheeel chair even if the towpath had been suitable for a wheelchair.

 

However in a civilised world (and I think we all would like to live in one) some form of ensuring fair distribution of resources/facilities/services needs to be found as yet nobody has suggested one other than the charge. Until somebody comes up with better it appears it is either I'm all right Jack I am only staying 4 nights tough you can't get on for the one you want to stay or a charge which hopefully keeps people moving a bit in popular areas.

[alan_fincher]

I am well aware there are some disabled moorings but like the mobility spaces in car parks they are often occupied by boats where nobody seems to have any mobility problems.

 

This is perfectly OK, according to CRT.

 

A boat with no disabled person on is allowed to occupy a mooring space marked as disabled, but should move off again if someone arrives with a boat where there are disabled people and asks them to do so.

 

I realise there are practical difficulties associated with this, because the person probably only moored there because no other space was available, and hence there still be no free space at that site for them to move to.

 

Again, please don't shoot the messenger, as I'm only stating how CRT have said it should operate in the past.

[bassplayer]

I am well aware there are some disabled moorings but like the mobility spaces in car parks they are often occupied by boats where nobody seems to have any mobility problems. (Before a pedant jumps in I know you don't get boats in mobility spaces in car parks).

 

Incidentally many seem to think the blue badge is for handicaps where as it is purely according to the rules a mobility badge.

But I digress. I assume your brother was pleased when he could get to a VM and it was near facilities e.g. pubs. Of course you can moor not on VMs we have moored in places where MIL couldn't get to the wheeel chair even if the towpath had been suitable for a wheelchair.

 

However in a civilised world (and I think we all would like to live in one) some form of ensuring fair distribution of resources/facilities/services needs to be found as yet nobody has suggested one other than the charge. Until somebody comes up with better it appears it is either I'm all right Jack I am only staying 4 nights tough you can't get on for the one you want to stay or a charge which hopefully keeps people moving a bit in popular areas.

I did suggest an alternative but you cut that bit out.

[bassplayer]

Here we go then...

 

 

If someone wants to improve their chances of a better mooring be more assertive.

 

1) Set off in good time

2) Get to the mooring early (mid afternoon is good because it's half way between lunchtime and tea time)

3) Don't be afraid to ask other moored boaters to shuffle up

4) Don't be aftraid to ask if you can moor alongside (some boats even have a sticker welcoming it)

 

Alternatively just be happy with a mooring a bit further away and use pins and a plank if you need to.

[jenlyn]

People seem to assume that liveaboards are the main culprits hogging vm's or honeyspots. (Even CRT acknowledges this is not the case).

If a particular mooring spot is popular, making it 48hr or whatever will of course open it up for more people to use it.

However, it will still be popular, and therefore busy.

The problem is that some are selfish, and feel hard done by when turning up to a popular mooring, and finding no "reserved" space for them. They then consequently hit the keyboard and bemoan the selfish tactics of others.

It's stupid, very selfish, and will not solve the issue of a mooring spot being popular.

Learn to share, or get another hobby.

[Jerra]

Here we go then...

 

 

If someone wants to improve their chances of a better mooring be more assertive.

 

1) Set off in good time

2) Get to the mooring early (mid afternoon is good because it's half way between lunchtime and tea time)

3) Don't be afraid to ask other moored boaters to shuffle up

4) Don't be aftraid to ask if you can moor alongside (some boats even have a sticker welcoming it)

 

Alternatively just be happy with a mooring a bit further away and use pins and a plank if you need to.

Which post did you offer an alternative I have been back over the last couple of pages and not found it?

 

Mooring up "in good time" is curtailing your cruising day, we set off early and moor at tea time. Finishing before that isn't being assertive it is just stopping earlier. I have no problem with ant of your other suggestions but in popular areas it may still be necessary to have a way of ensuring a reasonable "churn" of moorers. What number was the post where you offer an alternative way of doing this?

[jenlyn]

Which post did you offer an alternative I have been back over the last couple of pages and not found it?

 

Mooring up "in good time" is curtailing your cruising day, we set off early and moor at tea time. Finishing before that isn't being assertive it is just stopping earlier. I have no problem with ant of your other suggestions but in popular areas it may still be necessary to have a way of ensuring a reasonable "churn" of moorers. What number was the post where you offer an alternative way of doing this?

To even think you can turn up at a popular mooring spot at teatime and find a spot is ridiculous.

You really need to adjust your expectations, and learn to share.

[ditchcrawler]

I am not in the area now but in the passed I have been through SB many times and there has not been a free mooring between the tunnel and well down the second pound. One but I know for sure was moored there and only used as weekend accommodation to be in SB and empty for the other 10 days.

[alan_fincher]

I am not in the area now but in the passed I have been through SB many times and there has not been a free mooring between the tunnel and well down the second pound.

 

What time of year, please Brian?

 

I have to say this is virtually the complete opposite of our experience of Stoke Bruerne, where we are many times a year, (not always by boat, but usually walk the moorings even if I am not).

 

Other than at special events we have never seen the pound between the top lock and the tunnel anything vaguely approaching full. Even at peak times I would say we have rarely seen the moorings (overall) at anything approaching high occupancy since the SEVM scheme was introduced and the £25 signs went up.

 

Have you been incredibly unlucky, or us incredibly lucky?

 

As long as there are some moorings in the "long pound", unless you are disabled or infirm, surely it isn't hard to access the whole village from there?

[ditchcrawler]

 

What time of year, please Brian?

 

I have to say this is virtually the complete opposite of our experience of Stoke Bruerne, where we are many times a year, (not always by boat, but usually walk the moorings even if I am not).

 

Other than at special events we have never seen the pound between the top lock and the tunnel anything vaguely approaching full. Even at peak times I would say we have rarely seen the moorings (overall) at anything approaching high occupancy since the SEVM scheme was introduced and the £25 signs went up.

 

Have you been incredibly unlucky, or us incredibly lucky?

 

As long as there are some moorings in the "long pound", unless you are disabled or infirm, surely it isn't hard to access the whole village from there?

It was prior to that when it was a straight 14 day mooring

[alan_fincher]

It was prior to that when it was a straight 14 day mooring

 

If talking about the top pound, or the long pound, t has never been a straight 14 day mooring in over 12 years, Brian, although the signage saying what it actually was was always a bit lacking.

 

The top pound was all 2 days, all year, and the long pound just 1 day, all year. The only available 14 days before SEVM, was a relatively short length below the bottom lock, (the bit furthest from the lock and services), and I never found that anything other than fully occupied.

 

The mooring limits in the top pound and long pound are now tweaked by CRT to actually be the least restrictive they have been in at least 12 years, other than the threat of the £25 charge.

 

Odd, but (definitely!) true.

 

I conclude it is the £25signs that are scaring people off, not the stay times.

 

(Of course that was always Jeff Whyatt's intention, though!.....)

[adam1uk]

 

If talking about the top pound, or the long pound, t has never been a straight 14 day mooring in over 12 years, Brian, although the signage saying what it actually was was always a bit lacking.

 

The top pound was all 2 days, all year, and the long pound just 1 day, all year. The only available 14 days before SEVM, was a relatively short length below the bottom lock, (the bit furthest from the lock and services), and I never found that anything other than fully occupied.

 

The mooring limits in the top pound and long pound are now tweaked by CRT to actually be the least restrictive they have been in at least 12 years, other than the threat of the £25 charge.

 

Odd, but (definitely!) true.

 

I conclude it is the £25signs that are scaring people off, not the stay times.

 

(Of course that was always Jeff Whyatt's intention, though!.....)

 

This is our experience too. Often these days there's hundreds of yards of moorings available in both the tunnel pound and the long pound -- and for that matter at the bottom lock too.

[bassplayer]

To even think you can turn up at a popular mooring spot at teatime and find a spot is ridiculous.

You really need to adjust your expectations, and learn to share.

Seems a perfectly good alternative to expecting CRT to tie our shoe laces for us.

[onionbargee]

There is an FOI request about this on whatdotheyknow.com

 

It seems that CaRT are relying on the 1962 transport act that allows then to charge for "facilities and services" .

 

Is a visitor mooring a facility ?

[bassplayer]

There is an FOI request about this on whatdotheyknow.com

It seems that CaRT are relying on the 1962 transport act that allows then to charge for "facilities and services" .

Is a visitor mooring a facility ?

No it's a mooring. Is a the parking space outside someones house a facility? Only if the local council stick a meter on it....and that is where we are going folks....

[Jerra]

There is an FOI request about this on whatdotheyknow.com

 

It seems that CaRT are relying on the 1962 transport act that allows then to charge for "facilities and services" .

 

Is a visitor mooring a facility ?

This has been asked before (recently) according to my dictionary a facility is:

 

a place, amenity, or piece of equipment provided for a particular purpose.

 

An amenity is:

 

a desirable or useful feature or facility of a building or place.

 

So I would say no matter how you look at it a mooring is 1. a place 2. a useful feature & 3 the rings/bollards etc are equipment.

 

I would say yes it fits within the law.

No it's a mooring. Is a the parking space outside someones house a facility? Only if the local council stick a meter on it....and that is where we are going folks....

A facility doesn't need to be paid for.

[Paul C]

Its already been covered in posts 95-98 of this thread (page 5).

[bassplayer]

This has been asked before (recently) according to my dictionary a facility is:

 

a place, amenity, or piece of equipment provided for a particular purpose.

 

An amenity is:

 

a desirable or useful feature or facility of a building or place.

 

So I would say no matter how you look at it a mooring is 1. a place 2. a useful feature & 3 the rings/bollards etc are equipment.

 

I would say yes it fits within the law.

A facility doesn't need to be paid for.

Most VM's I've moored up on have no rings or bollards (or have a useful feature for that matter). Grant you, it is a place. Maybe we should all start charging each other for parking or standing in 'our' place.

 

What a ridiculous post.

[jenlyn]

This has been asked before (recently) according to my dictionary a facility is:

 

a place, amenity, or piece of equipment provided for a particular purpose.

 

An amenity is:

 

a desirable or useful feature or facility of a building or place.

 

So I would say no matter how you look at it a mooring is 1. a place 2. a useful feature & 3 the rings/bollards etc are equipment.

 

I would say yes it fits within the law.

A facility doesn't need to be paid for.

Reminds me of that advert on tv about Barclays, and scams.

[Jerra]

Most VM's I've moored up on have no rings or bollards (or have a useful feature for that matter). Grant you, it is a place. Maybe we should all start charging each other for parking or standing in 'our' place.

 

What a ridiculous post.

So if CRT ensure the water at a VM is deep enough to moor (which many parts of the system which aren't VMs aren't deep enough) I would still think that if it came to court they would find for CRT.

 

I know it is not what boaters want to recognise but that doesn't alter firstly my opinion (which IMHO is as valid as anybody else's) or secondly the English language.

[Paul C]

Most VM's I've moored up on have no rings or bollards (or have a useful feature for that matter). Grant you, it is a place. Maybe we should all start charging each other for parking or standing in 'our' place.

 

What a ridiculous post.

 

Definitely a regional thing. I've travelled extensively and visitor moorings have always been characterised as being improved somehow over the regular bank; and/or having rings or bollards installed. I did pass a handful which were labelled as 14 day visitor moorings but had neither, but they are definitely in the minority (in the areas I've travelled).

[bassplayer]

So if CRT ensure the water at a VM is deep enough to moor (which many parts of the system which aren't VMs aren't deep enough) I would still think that if it came to court they would find for CRT.

 

I know it is not what boaters want to recognise but that doesn't alter firstly my opinion (which IMHO is as valid as anybody else's) or secondly the English language.

Definitely a regional thing. I've travelled extensively and visitor moorings have always been characterised as being improved somehow over the regular bank; and/or having rings or bollards installed. I did pass a handful which were labelled as 14 day visitor moorings but had neither, but they are definitely in the minority (in the areas I've travelled).

Sorry but I think the point you boys keep missing is that we ARE already paying for these facilities. I can't believe you can't see this.

[Paul C]

 

Sorry but I think the point you boys keep missing is that we ARE already paying for these facilities. I can't believe you can't see this.

 

 

I think the point you're missing is that legally CRT can charge for a facility/service (over and above the licence fee). Its in the 1962 Act. But it needs to be a facility/service, not a label on an otherwise normal piece of canal towpath. For example nobody has coherently challenged the Llangollen moorings which are charged - because they also provide electricty hookup.

 

Effectively I'm agreeing with you in respect of the type of visitor moorings you mention; and neither agreeing nor disagreeing regarding those with improved edge, dredged, rings, bollards, etc - merely pointing out how CRT have interpreted the law.

[bassplayer]

For example nobody has coherently challenged the Llangollen moorings which are charged - because they also provide electricty hookup.

 

...and this is the problem isn't it? Some people don't like to challenge authorities because they believe they must always be right (remember rights, moral rights?).

 

BTW, it would probably be easier to persuade a judge that an electricity hookup is a facility. That wasn't the kind of mooring we were talking about was it?