Stoke Bruerne £25 per day after two days

[Jerra]

I don't think mooring up on a Friday afternoon in say, August, and leaving on Monday morning is unreasonable in the slightest.

The person who arrives on Sunday evening and can't get a mooring might consider it unreasonable.

[NigelMoore]

 

By the letter of the law, those of us who pay for home moorings are not obliged to move on after 14 days . . .

 

I personally believe that we ARE so obliged, with the observation that “by the letter of the law”, while CC’ers are entitled to the 14 days, the HM’ers are not. Only the applicability of fairness and reasonableness, coupled with historic and current consent, are HM’ers able to enjoy the same privilege.

[bassplayer]

The person who arrives on Sunday evening and can't get a mooring might consider it unreasonable.

It depends what you mean by not being able to get a mooring. We can't all moor directly outside the pub everytime we want to.

[Gwydion]

The person who arrives on Sunday evening and can't get a mooring might consider it unreasonable.

 

Not my problem. The type of visit I cited as an example is perfectly reasonable. He or she should have came along earlier. It's not as if I'm hogging a spot for months on end.

[NigelMoore]

 

If anybody has had the charge invoiced, but chosen not to pay it, I would be interested to see what action, if any, CRT then took.

 

I have had the charge invoiced and refused to pay. The action they took was to instigate legal proceedings on a ‘small claims’ basis, but they dropped them a week before the hearing. It is only fair to say that the decision had nothing to do with the legality issue.

 

Without clearly researched and presented counter-argument, I would expect a County Court to uphold the ‘charge’, based solely upon the presumption of the authority’s probity without ‘opening the door’ into the rationale. They would be very wrong to do so, in my opinion, but that is the outcome I would expect.

 

This approach would have a judicial seal of approval should CaRT win next month’s Appeal hearing. Interestingly enough, however, in the context of this debate, County Courts actually have no jurisdiction to pronounce upon the validity of charges; all matters of tolls are reserved to the High Court alone.

 

recently I laid out the various Acts in chromological sequence.....

 

You missed out a few British Waterways Acts between 1962 and 1968.

[Jerra]

It depends what you mean by not being able to get a mooring. We can't all moor directly outside the pub everytime we want to.

Assuming this as the discussion had been going about restricted moorings e.g. 48 hour. Nobody has mentioned being out side the pub (at least I didn't) it is about the reasons for restricting mooring time. If a mooring is popular it is IMO reasonable to try to find a way to make sure the use is fair.

 

Would you consider arrive Wednesday leave Saturday midday reasonable when you arrived Friday night at a visitor mooring and it was full?

 

Not my problem. The type of visit I cited as an example is perfectly reasonable. He or she should have came along earlier. It's not as if I'm hogging a spot for months on end.

As I said to a post above if a VM is popular I think it is reasonable to have a system to try to achieve fairness.

 

I will ask you the same question. Would you consider Wednesday to Saturday midday reasonable if you arrived at your favourite VM for a Friday to Monday weekend and found it full, in spite of the fact you had taken a day off work and arrived at 8:00 am?

 

The Wednesday to Saturday moorer isn't hogging the mooring for months on end.

[Loafer]

Dunno about you, but the last place I want to moor is nose-to-tail with unknown other boats at a popular place! You won't find me there, except for an hour outside a Tesco!

[Jerra]

Dunno about you, but the last place I want to moor is nose-to-tail with unknown other boats at a popular place! You won't find me there, except for an hour outside a Tesco!

I am actually the same but there are those who do want to and I feel there needs to be a way of ensuring reasonable "churn" and some form of fairness.

[Loafer]

I am actually the same but there are those who do want to and I feel there needs to be a way of ensuring reasonable "churn" and some form of fairness.

 

I agree with that too. I was just having a 'me, me, me' moment!

 

I'm NEVER a VM-hogger though. Even one of my favourite spots, outside the Anchor Inn, is outside the 'VM bit' and is 14 days.

[Gwydion]

 

I will ask you the same question. Would you consider Wednesday to Saturday midday reasonable if you arrived at your favourite VM for a Friday to Monday weekend and found it full, in spite of the fact you had taken a day off work and arrived at 8:00 am?

 

I'd just have to moor a bit further away. No biggy. I've done it before and haven't grumbled. The times we're talking about here aren't what I think overstaying should be considered as.

[bassplayer]

Assuming this as the discussion had been going about restricted moorings e.g. 48 hour. Nobody has mentioned being out side the pub (at least I didn't) it is about the reasons for restricting mooring time. If a mooring is popular it is IMO reasonable to try to find a way to make sure the use is fair.

 

Would you consider arrive Wednesday leave Saturday midday reasonable when you arrived Friday night at a visitor mooring and it was full?

 

As I said to a post above if a VM is popular I think it is reasonable to have a system to try to achieve fairness.

 

I will ask you the same question. Would you consider Wednesday to Saturday midday reasonable if you arrived at your favourite VM for a Friday to Monday weekend and found it full, in spite of the fact you had taken a day off work and arrived at 8:00 am?

 

The Wednesday to Saturday moorer isn't hogging the mooring for months on end.

What a strange argument. It's not other peoples fault you can't take more time off work.

 

I agree we shouldn't hog moorings but not sure why your examples are for more than 48 hours...and who hogs moorings for months on end?

[Loafer]

What a strange argument. It's not other peoples fault you can't take more time off work.

 

I agree we shouldn't hog moorings but not sure why your examples are for more than 48 hours...and who hogs moorings for months on end?

 

Ha ha! Plenty of them up the Shroppie, and I'm not one of them!

[alan_fincher]

I don't think mooring up on a Friday afternoon in say, August, and leaving on Monday morning is unreasonable in the slightest.

 

Whilst I am in no way defending CRT's short term moorings schemes at these locations, it is of course true that most have 7 day short stay moorings as part of the scheme.

 

At Stoke Bruerne, for example, the whole of the "long pound", (2 locks down from the top), is 7 day mooring. It doesn't seem completely unreasonable to me that anybody who wishes to stay for several days uses the 7 day part, which is perfectly good mooring, only a very short walk from the top lock, and generally has bags of space free.

 

To my mind what most needs resisting is any move that gives the whole of any site a stay time of no more than 2 days, with no longer term places available, particularly if data is not made available that makes a very strong case that demand for moorings regularly exceeds supply available. BW/CRT have previously proposed making the whole of certain towns all two day, when there is clearly more than enough space to make being so restrictive completely unnecessary. So far we have always managed to stop that happening, but my local town council is now openly saying they want it to deter residential boats making long stays in the town

[bassplayer]

 

Ha ha! Plenty of them up the Shroppie, and I'm not one of them!

I take it CRT arn't doing very well with enforcement up there then

[Jerra]

What a strange argument. It's not other peoples fault you can't take more time off work.

 

I agree we shouldn't hog moorings but not sure why your examples are for more than 48 hours...and who hogs moorings for months on end?

The examples back up the thread were about 48 hour mooring. Somebody (can't be bothered to look back and check) introduced the idea that Friday to Monday wasn't over staying and coupled that with the idea that it was a reasonable weekend aim.

 

Well according to my primitive grasp of numbers arrive Friday at a 48hr mooring means on Sunday. As a result IMO (and according to my primitive maths) that is over staying on a 48hr mooring. Although nobody has risen to the bait I suspect that if they regularly turned up at their favourite VM for this "reasonable weekend" and it was filled by people who were over staying they would soon consider something needed to be done to make things fair.

 

It is I admit the scenario is unlikely because the majority of boaters are tied to work I was just using it as an example of why I (other opinions are available) feel restricted mooring times are reasonable for an attempt to ensure some form of fairness.

 

With regard to who hogs moorings for months you need to check back through the thread to see who raised it as I don't think I have suggested such a thing. However I am sure if you search other threads you will find complaints about the same boats being on VMs for weeks on end.

[bassplayer]

The examples back up the thread were about 48 hour mooring. Somebody (can't be bothered to look back and check) introduced the idea that Friday to Monday wasn't over staying and coupled that with the idea that it was a reasonable weekend aim.

 

Well according to my primitive grasp of numbers arrive Friday at a 48hr mooring means on Sunday. As a result IMO (and according to my primitive maths) that is over staying on a 48hr mooring. Although nobody has risen to the bait I suspect that if they regularly turned up at their favourite VM for this "reasonable weekend" and it was filled by people who were over staying they would soon consider something needed to be done to make things fair.

 

It is I admit the scenario is unlikely because the majority of boaters are tied to work I was just using it as an example of why I (other opinions are available) feel restricted mooring times are reasonable for an attempt to ensure some form of fairness.

 

With regard to who hogs moorings for months you need to check back through the thread to see who raised it as I don't think I have suggested such a thing. However I am sure if you search other threads you will find complaints about the same boats being on VMs for weeks on end.

I think just as much an issue are people getting grumpy because they have to moor a bit further away than they would like. They then whinge to CRT at meetings then we all have to put up with the resulting nonsense signs.

 

It doesn't bother me where I moor up as I enjoy walking, and like someone else said, it's nice to be a bit remote at times.

 

This thread is about the £25 charges anyway which are probably the result of the same grumpy boaters (unless CRT just saw it as a fund raising opportunity...or both).

[Loafer]

I take it CRT arn't doing very well with enforcement up there then

 

It's improving slowly. A few local home moorers in the High Onn area finally managed to get a 2-winter 'dumper' 'moved along', after it's second 4-month stretch there. It then spent 8 weeks on the Gnosall VMs and there got a second ticket. Not sure where it is now, but the owner was right miffed when we all waved goodbye, with cheering and waving of hankies!

 

I understand the EO is a blond-haired young lad, who probably isn't confrontational.

[Paul C]

I take it CRT arn't doing very well with enforcement up there then

 

The fact is, that there simply isn't the same traffic density, so an overstayer isn't in itself a problem/obstruction etc. So its right that the level of enforcement action reflects the level of utility it does, regionally - hence you'll get the occasional boat staying put for 4 months here.

[Loafer]

 

The fact is, that there simply isn't the same traffic density, so an overstayer isn't in itself a problem/obstruction etc. So its right that the level of enforcement action reflects the level of utility it does, regionally - hence you'll get the occasional boat staying put for 4 months here.

 

The dumper was also empty the whole time. It annoyed those nearby, who were paying many beer vouchers for the same privilege. I was with them on that.

[bassplayer]

 

The fact is, that there simply isn't the same traffic density, so an overstayer isn't in itself a problem/obstruction etc. So its right that the level of enforcement action reflects the level of utility it does, regionally - hence you'll get the occasional boat staying put for 4 months here.

Well speaking as someone who believes enforcement should be measured according to the severity of the problem, that's good.

[Jerra]

It doesn't bother me where I moor up as I enjoy walking, and like someone else said, it's nice to be a bit remote at times.

 

This thread is about the £25 charges anyway which are probably the result of the same grumpy boaters (unless CRT just saw it as a fund raising opportunity...or both).

Like you it doesn't matter to me where I moor in fact I prefer not to be able to see another boat. However there are those who need (and some who want) the slightly improved situation of better underfoot, something other than pins or nappy pins to tie up to and to be closer to facilities.

 

Having boated for a number of years with a MIL on board who needed a wheel chair I realise full VMs can be a problem. Restricted hours/days is a CRT attempt to make the situation fair. Can you suggest any other methods.

[Loafer]

Like you it doesn't matter to me where I moor in fact I prefer not to be able to see another boat. However there are those who need (and some who want) the slightly improved situation of better underfoot, something other than pins or nappy pins to tie up to and to be closer to facilities.

 

Having boated for a number of years with a MIL on board who needed a wheel chair I realise full VMs can be a problem. Restricted hours/days is a CRT attempt to make the situation fair. Can you suggest any other methods.

 

Jerra, what's a MIL? Excuse my ignorance.

[ditchcrawler]

Guess Mother in Law

[Jerra]

Guess Mother in Law

Sorry I thought it was an understood abbreviation Mother in Law.

[bassplayer]

Like you it doesn't matter to me where I moor in fact I prefer not to be able to see another boat. However there are those who need (and some who want) the slightly improved situation of better underfoot, something other than pins or nappy pins to tie up to and to be closer to facilities.

 

Having boated for a number of years with a MIL on board who needed a wheel chair I realise full VMs can be a problem. Restricted hours/days is a CRT attempt to make the situation fair. Can you suggest any other methods.

My brother was a liveaboard for many years and had a disability which made it difficult to walk. He never expected special treatment. He'd just moor where he could. There are some disabled moorings by the way.

 

I'm just saying that we're all grown adults and shouldn't have to expect CRT to make up silly rules to compensate for a lack of assertiveness.

 

I'm not totally against time limits either, I just think it's over the top in some places. I also think £25 is excessive.