Anchor?

[The Boat Studio]

What anchor and rope or chain would the forum recommend for a 54ft, 16tonne narrowboat for use on the severn or the thames? And where do you recommend it is attached? Thanks in advance!!

[Alan de Enfield]

The answer will be a compromise :

 

How much are you prepared to spend ?(£100 - £150- £2000)

How do you plan to stow the anchor ?

How much weight can you lift ?

Have you got a strong point to fasten it to ? (NOT the T-stud)

How much chain do you plan on having ?

Are you on the tidal river ?

Are you on fast flowing parts of the river ?

 

If you can answer the above I can put a suggestion to you.

 

 

Always fasten an anchor at the bow.

[PaulG]

What anchor and rope or chain would the forum recommend for a 54ft, 16tonne narrowboat for use on the severn or the thames? And where do you recommend it is attached? Thanks in advance!!

I'm not qualified to recommend anything to you, but I can offer some advice in the light of personal experience.

 

The usual recommendations for the minimum length of an anchor rode (the rope/chain) for a sea-going vessel are 5 times the depth of the water if it's all rope, three times the depth if there is a length of chain attached to the anchor, the rest being made up of rope. This may very considerably depending on the design of the anchor and the nature of the holding ground.

 

I don't know how deep the Thames is likely to be on the sction that you intend to navigate.

 

I keep my anchor in the bow well, with the "lazy" end shackled to the boat. You look silly if you chuck it over and everything disappears into the drink!

 

Given the length and weight of a narrowboat, the normal calculations for anchor size can indicate a size that is impractical and unweildy. There's no point in having a 50Kg anchor if you can't get it into the water.

 

The usual suggestion is "the heaviest one that your crew can deploy". In my case we have a 25Kg Danforth, and have had cause to use it on at least one occasion.

Edited March 7, 2016 by PaulG

[Alan de Enfield]

I'm not qualified to recommend anything to you, but I can offer some advice in the light of personal experience.

 

The usual recommendations for the minimum length of an anchor rode (the rope/chain) for a sea-going vessel are 5 times the depth of the water if it's all rope, three times the depth if there is a length of chain attached to the anchor, the rest being made up of rope. .

 

Totally, totally wrong.

 

100% rope should be a MINIMUM of 10x depth

A 50-50 Rope and chain should be MINIMUM of 7x depth

100% chain should be a MINIMUM of 3x depth and the preferred factor is 5x.

[PaulG]

 

Totally, totally wrong.

 

100% rope should be a MINIMUM of 10x depth

A 50-50 Rope and chain should be MINIMUM of 7x depth

100% chain should be a MINIMUM of 3x depth and the preferred factor is 5x.

Well that's what I was taught when I did my RYA Instructors Certificate...

And you seem to be in need of an anger management course this morning Alan :-)

Edited March 7, 2016 by PaulG

[bizzard]

And just in case you fancy anchoring over an Indian or Atlantic ocean trench you might need a lengthy rope of 50 miles or so long.

[Boat&Bikes]

If you don't attach anchor to the t stud on a narrowboat then am I correct in assuming most narrowboats have alternative arrangements. Our current boat has a suitable fixing but I've seen many that don't.

[Alan de Enfield]

Well that's what I was taught when I did my RYA Instructors Certificate...

And you seem to be in need of an anger management course this morning Alan :-)

 

Not angry - just frustrated when newbies are given incorrect - potentially life threatening - information.

 

Check the RYA website - their recommendation is :

 

"Use a scope of anchor cable of at least 4 x the depth for chain and 6 x for rope/chain combinations".

 

http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/Anchorage/Pages/AnchoringThegear.aspx

 

You obviously had a 'faulty' instructor.

 

If you don't attach anchor to the t stud on a narrowboat then am I correct in assuming most narrowboats have alternative arrangements. Our current boat has a suitable fixing but I've seen many that don't.

 

 

T studs have been known to become detached under load - you should have a strong point (eye bolt) drilled thru the deck with a large 'load spreader' plate behind it.

Edited March 7, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[PaulG]

 

Not angry - just frustrated when newbies are given incorrect - potentially life threatening - information.

 

And I made it clear that I was not making a recommmendation, or anythng like it.

Just my own personal experience.

"potentialy life threatening" indeed.

Don't be such a drama queen......

[Guest]

 

Not angry - just frustrated when newbies are given incorrect - potentially life threatening - information.

 

Check the RYA website - their recommendation is :

 

"Use a scope of anchor cable of at least 4 x the depth for chain and 6 x for rope/chain combinations".

 

http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/Anchorage/Pages/AnchoringThegear.aspx

 

You obviously had a 'faulty' instructor.

 

 

 

T studs have been known to become detached under load - you should have a strong point (eye bolt) drilled thru the deck with a large 'load spreader' plate behind it.

Had that happen on two NB's not even using an anchor!

I have two eyebolts for the anchor.

[Alan de Enfield]

And I made it clear that I was not making a recommmendation, or anythng like it.

Just my own personal experience.

"potentialy life threatening" indeed.

Don't be such a drama queen......

 

Drama - yes it is.

What would you have thought on the subject on the 8th Feb, when a NB with no anchor was carried over a weir, the boat went over to 90^o, & rolled under the barrier, the 'wife' was lost overboard.

 

Deploying a correctly mounted 'anchoring system' (not just the anchor) could have made things much more pleasant for them.

 

Fortunately it all ended reasonably well and no lives lost - thanks to the high water level minimising the effect of the weir and, the fact they were wearing lifejackets.

[PaulG]

 

Drama - yes it is.

What would you have thought on the subject on the 8th Feb, when a NB with no anchor was carried over a weir, the boat went over to 90^o, & rolled under the barrier, the 'wife' was lost overboard.

 

Deploying a correctly mounted 'anchoring system' (not just the anchor) could have made things much more pleasant for them.

 

Fortunately it all ended reasonably well and no lives lost - thanks to the high water level minimising the effect of the weir and, the fact they were wearing lifejackets.

So what length of non-existant anchor rode would you have suggested for their non-existant anchor, then?

 

Frankly, I think you are just nit-picking.

[ditchcrawler]

 

Not angry - just frustrated when newbies are given incorrect - potentially life threatening - information.

 

Check the RYA website - their recommendation is :

 

"Use a scope of anchor cable of at least 4 x the depth for chain and 6 x for rope/chain combinations".

 

http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/Anchorage/Pages/AnchoringThegear.aspx

 

You obviously had a 'faulty' instructor.

 

 

 

T studs have been known to become detached under load - you should have a strong point (eye bolt) drilled thru the deck with a large 'load spreader' plate behind it.

Surly that is for anchoring out in a lumpy sea not on a river.

[bizzard]

Surly that is for anchoring out in a lumpy sea not on a river.

A swell reply.

[Theo]

Surly that is for anchoring out in a lumpy sea not on a river.

 

Emergency anchoring, which is what is being discussed will normally involve bringing the boat to rest using the hold power of the anchor only. You need lots of holding power if you are likely to be going over a weir in a shirt space of time.

 

Nick

[ditchcrawler]

And if you put it over the bows going down hill and the river is not wide enough for you to swing your in more trouble.

[Alan de Enfield]

And if you put it over the bows going down hill and the river is not wide enough for you to swing your in more trouble.

 

Surely you are not suggesting that the boat will swing around on the end of the 'rope', such that 50 foot of rope/chain is going to make the boat swing on a 50 foot radius ?

 

The anchor will set, the boat will spin around in its own length, - maybe the river width is less than the boat length,.in which case probably deploying the anchor is unnecessary - just drift along and step out when it touches the side.

 

I think it would be a good exercise for some boaters to practice anchoring and see what actually happens.

[Cas446]

Can someone provide some photos of an anchor point they have on a NB that isn't the T stud? Just to get an idea of what a suitable anchor point should look like.

[TheBiscuits]

Surely you are not suggesting that the boat will swing around on the end of the 'rope', such that 50 foot of rope/chain is going to make the boat swing on a 50 foot radius ?

 

The anchor will set, the boat will spin around in its own length, - maybe the river width is less than the boat length,.in which case probably deploying the anchor is unnecessary - just drift along and step out when it touches the side.

 

I think it would be a good exercise for some boaters to practice anchoring and see what actually happens.

Greenie, and quoted to emphasise the point.

 

If you are on moving water, you really need to know how to stop the boat if/when it goes a bit wrong.

 

It is different to being on non-moving ditches.

 

This picture was posted on the Calder & Hebble flooding repairs by Mac of Cygnet

 

 

Another poster commented:

The boat that is lodged in the trees had come over the lock and I think the boater who is a liveaboard had mangaged to get the boat into the trees. Otherwise he may have ended up in Leeds. He must have been terryfied. Most of the damage was caused by the River Calder which runs parallel to the canal along a narrow valley which had burst its banks and effectively the canal had become the river.

The chap steering deliberately drove the boat into the trees to try and stop.

 

Anyone else still think Alan is being a drama queen?

[Murflynn]

 

Not angry - just frustrated when newbies are given incorrect - potentially life threatening - information.

 

Check the RYA website - their recommendation is :

 

"Use a scope of anchor cable of at least 4 x the depth for chain and 6 x for rope/chain combinations".

 

http://www.rya.org.uk/cruising/Anchorage/Pages/AnchoringThegear.aspx

 

You obviously had a 'faulty' instructor.

 

 

 

T studs have been known to become detached under load - you should have a strong point (eye bolt) drilled thru the deck with a large 'load spreader' plate behind it.

err .... the figures you gave in this post are much closer to Paul's recommendations than they are to your previous recommendations in #4.

 

you are being most inconsistent.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Murflynn

[Joe Bourke]

We had a mate who had engine problems on the Trent below Torksey, he threw his anchor overboard, and the rope snapped! I nearly died laughing. We breasted him down and into Keadby.

[Alan de Enfield]

err .... the figures you gave in this post are much closer to Paul's recommendations than they are to your previous recommendations in #4.

 

you are being most inconsistent.

 

Sorry - where are you getting that from ?

 

Rope / Chain combination :

 

Pauls figure = 3x water depth (Post #3)

My figure = 7x water depth (Post #4)

RYA figure = 6x water depth (Post #8)

 

I believe that 7 is closer to 6 than 3.

My figure errs on the side of caution (compared to the RYA), the figure of 3 verges on 'dangerous' (compared to the RYA)

We had a mate who had engine problems on the Trent below Torksey, he threw his anchor overboard, and the rope snapped! I nearly died laughing. We breasted him down and into Keadby.

The shock loading of a XX Ton boat coming to an 'emergency stop' is quite large.

 

This is why it should be a complete 'anchoring system' that must be considered, not just the individual components.

Edited March 8, 2016 by Alan de Enfield

[Joe Bourke]

It was funny because the rope snapped before the anchor hit the bottom!

[PaulG]

 

Sorry - where are you getting that from ?

 

Rope / Chain combination :

 

Pauls figure = 3x water depth (Post #3)

My figure = 7x water depth (Post #4)

RYA figure = 6x water depth (Post #8)

 

I believe that 7 is closer to 6 than 3.

My figure errs on the side of caution (compared to the RYA), the figure of 3 verges on 'dangerous' (compared to the RYA)

The shock loading of a XX Ton boat coming to an 'emergency stop' is quite large.

 

This is why it should be a complete 'anchoring system' that must be considered, not just the individual components.

Most of the boating that I have done over the last 50 years or so has been on the Avon and Severn. My comments were in the light of this experience and were specifically NOT recommendations.

 

It seems that the RYA recommendation has changed, but there is no evidence that the recommendation that they made in the 1980s was unsafe.

Thier recommendation also takes into account coastal waters, where conditions are totally different from the type of river that the OP was asking about.

 

What we are looking at here is a case of creeping health & safety - just tack on a bit more rope to make sure.

The H&S crowd are doing the same thing with definitions of obesity to make us all look fatter, and as for recommended limits for alcohol consumption, don't get me started...

 

As with the calculations for anchor weights, the "rule of thumb" is often impractical.

 

Taking the case of the Severn, one of my fishing aquaintances tells me that it is 15 feet deep in many places. So you're suggesting that you need 105 feet of anchor rode?

 

Where are you going to keep all that rope and chain in good order on a narrowboat?

 

Completely impractical.

 

I stand by my suggestion as I *know from my own experience that it works*.

[Alan de Enfield]

 

 

Taking the case of the Severn, one of my fishing aquaintances tells me that it is 15 feet deep in many places. So you're suggesting that you need 105 feet of anchor rode?

 

Where are you going to keep all that rope and chain in good order on a narrowboat?

 

Completely impractical.

 

 

Some fair comments there - but - I would suggest 15 metres of chain, that would fit in a reasonable sized bucket. (That's what we used on our fishing boat)