Fire Extinguishers - BSS compliance criteria

[Rob@BSSOffice]

transported from another thread in general boating

Rob hi

Re extinguishers I did email the office, haven't had a reply yet.
But could you clarify the situation of requirement of extinguisher
What is it that we have to do
I.e. If a extinguisher is 5 years old, in like new condition, gauge is showing charged.

Will it pass the examination

Many thanks

Big Col

 

I have attached a pdf (161kb) all the checks that apply to fire extinguishers including those related to the gauge and to any expiry/replace by dates (Not warranty or guarantee dates).

 

By assessing the extinguisher as found on the boat, it should be possible to decide whether an extinguisher and/or the compliment of extinguishers meet the compliance options.

 

These are the key themes

• individual fire fighting capacity
• total fire fighting capacity
• certification/attestation mark
• condition of casing and trigger
• gauge indication
• weight indication
• position/ability to deploy
• location visibility

HTH

 

 

 

Apologies to Big Col for the lack of response earlier, I'll look into that and let you know.

 

Regards

Rob

 

ECP-private-boats-Ed3_Rev_PART-6_Apr2015_PUBLIC_FINAL.pdf

[bigcol]

 

Rob

All clear, better understanding

Thankyou for posting

 

Col

[DHutch]

To quote the key section:

Portable fire extinguishers must be in good general condition, and must not show any of the following indicators of poor condition:

• having passed the manufacturer’s express‘expiry’ or ‘replace by’ date;

NOTE – portable fire extinguishers having passed the manufacturer’s express‘expiry’ or ‘replace by’ dates are acceptable if supported by evidence of servicing in accordance with BS 5306 by a service technician within the last 12 months. Evidence must be in the form of a service label on the extinguisher and an associated invoice or service report on headed paper from a company recognisable as an extinguisher servicing company. Guidance for owners – the use of BAFE registered service technicians is recommended.

 

Daniel

[Sea Dog]

I have a powder extinguisher which appears to meet the requirements in Rob's attachment in all respects, but is date marked 2008. This is clearly a manufacturing date, and it does NOT have a manufacturer's express 'expiry' or 'replace by' date marked so it appears to meet the BSS requirement.

 

Now, whether it ought to be replaced is one thing, but whether it MUST be replaced for the BSS is the question. Must it?

[Rob@BSSOffice]

I have a powder extinguisher which appears to meet the requirements in Rob's attachment in all respects, but is date marked 2008. This is clearly a manufacturing date, and it does NOT have a manufacturer's express 'expiry' or 'replace by' date marked so it appears to meet the BSS requirement.

 

Now, whether it ought to be replaced is one thing, but whether it MUST be replaced for the BSS is the question. Must it?

Based on your statement - and all other conditions being met - no.

 

But like me at home where one is over 5 years old, I am thinking about an addition or replacement for my own assurance.

[Sea Dog]

Based on your statement - and all other conditions being met - no.

 

But like me at home where one is over 5 years old, I am thinking about an addition or replacement for my own assurance.

Thanks Rob. My thoughts are similar to yours, ie to have the correct amount of 'in date' extinguishers, but to retain ones which otherwise comply as extras. They may also be useful in case of false alarms.

[ditchcrawler]

So if its a false alarm you pick up the duff extinguisher.

[DHutch]

So if its a false alarm you pick up the duff extinguisher.

I here what you are saying, and if the boat is multiple-occupancy it gets more vague.

 

However, as I see it;

a ) They are like to both work

b ) In an emergency grab the newer one (place this nearer) but maybe have a second if you need it.

c ) If its a small containable fire thats not expanding rapidly, you can use the old one first.

 

 

Daniel

[ditchcrawler]

The old one will be ideal for breaking the window to get out.

 

If you have an old out of date one, go somewhere and light a nice little fire, a bit of wood, a drop of diesel, maybe even a cushion and then use that out of date extinguisher to try and put it out.

That way you will have a good idea what happens when you squeeze the trigger on an extinguisher, how close you need to be to the fire and what effect the extinguisher will have on that fire.

Then heaven forbid you need to use the new one you will have some idea what to expect.

[Sea Dog]

My other thought re older but still BSS legal extinguishers is to retain them on board to ensure compliance with the BSS rules whilst changing to water mist which have yet to be BSS acredited.

[cuthound]

My other thought re older but still BSS legal extinguishers is to retain them on board to ensure compliance with the BSS rules whilst changing to water mist which have yet to be BSS acredited.

My thoughts exactly.

 

Does anyone know if BSS intend to accredit water mist extinguishers, and if so the likely timescales?

[ditchcrawler]

My thoughts exactly.

 

Does anyone know if BSS intend to accredit water mist extinguishers, and if so the likely timescales?

I think they would probably be more use than DP

[Alan de Enfield]

If this extinguisher was 'fitted' into a boat subject to a BSS examination would a BSS be issued ?

(There are no certificates or indications that it has been serviced)

 

 

[waterworks]

Are CO2 extinguishers OK for BSS ?

[Sea Dog]

If this extinguisher was 'fitted' into a boat subject to a BSS examination would a BSS be issued ?

(There are no certificates or indications that it has been serviced)

 

 

No. See the attachment provided by Rob or Dan's extract at post #3.

[Alan de Enfield]

No. See the attachment provided by Rob or Dan's extract at post #3.

 

Thanks for the confirmation I thought it was 'just me'.

 

This boat has passed its BSS twice - in Mid 2012 and mid 2015 ( I asked for an early BSS)

 

If the BSS are interested the surveyors name (certificate number) can be provided.

 

I have very little faith in the BSS ( or maybe the quality of the surveyors), on a previous NB I 'planted' 6 BSS failures, it passed every one but was failed on an 'advisory', despite remonstrating, I was told If you want a pass then you need to implement the recommendation, or, get another surveyor and pay another £130.

 

I do truly think that the BSS management should seriously consider some 'secret shopping' surveys and see for themselves the inconsistencies that they are supporting.

 

As in all walks of life I am sure the majority are 'fine' but I seem to have had more than my share of 'bad-apples'

[Rob@BSSOffice]

My thoughts exactly.

 

Does anyone know if BSS intend to accredit water mist extinguishers, and if so the likely timescales?

BSS does not accredit anything. We will recognise any extinguisher achieving attestation and carrying recognised test body certification (min 5A 34B). It is down to the manufacturer to put any of their products through an appropriate accreditation process to meet attestation.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

Are CO2 extinguishers OK for BSS ?

 

They are in the UK - class C extinguishers only and effective on electrical equipment. However they flood an environment with the carbon dioxide thus starving the fire of oxygen.

 

In a cabin space, starving an environment of oxygen presents it's own dangers for anyone in there.

 

For our purposes, they are not recognised.

[Cheshire cat]

Interestingly we are having to replace our powder extinguishes at work because they are no longer deemed to be suitable for an office environment. The company that services them has condemned them and suggested we replace them with CO2.

[Rob@BSSOffice]

If the BSS are interested the surveyors name (certificate number) can be provided.

 

I have very little faith in the BSS ( or maybe the quality of the surveyors), on a previous NB I 'planted' 6 BSS failures, it passed every one but was failed on an 'advisory', despite remonstrating, I was told If you want a pass then you need to implement the recommendation, or, get another surveyor and pay another £130.

 

I do truly think that the BSS management should seriously consider some 'secret shopping' surveys and see for themselves the inconsistencies that they are supporting.

 

As in all walks of life I am sure the majority are 'fine' but I seem to have had more than my share of 'bad-apples'

Hello Alan

I think it would be helpful to have by PM, that information you offered please. Could it include the list of six issues you refer to, thanks.

 

In regards the expiry date; I'd need to double check with my colleagues that the Delta statement isn't referencing a warranty or similar and does relate to 'unit replacement'. We usually email the Belgium office for confirmation so it can take time, but we may have the answer on file already.

 

For several intractable practical and legal reasons, we cannot introduce secret shopping, but we do react to complaints where names are provided.

 

We have a field assessment programme. We have regular update and improvement workshops. We have additional formal periodic re-assessment programmes (like Gas Safe).

 

Regarding items that do not pass the advice checks - if an examiner refuses to issue a certificate in these circumstances, please ask for a failure report and then with that in your possession, contact the BSS Manager, or any other members of the team including me, and explain that you are being refused a certification on the basis of meeting the BSS requirements but not passing advice checks.

 

HTH

Rob

[cuthound]

BSS does not accredit anything. We will recognise any extinguisher achieving attestation and carrying recognised test body certification (min 5A 34B). It is down to the manufacturer to put any of their products through an appropriate accreditation process to meet attestation.

Thanks Rob.

[Alan de Enfield]

Hello Alan

I think it would be helpful to have by PM, that information you offered please. Could it include the list of six issues you refer to, thanks.

 

In regards the expiry date; I'd need to double check with my colleagues that the Delta statement isn't referencing a warranty or similar and does relate to 'unit replacement'. We usually email the Belgium office for confirmation so it can take time, but we may have the answer on file already.

 

For several intractable practical and legal reasons, we cannot introduce secret shopping, but we do react to complaints where names are provided.

 

We have a field assessment programme. We have regular update and improvement workshops. We have additional formal periodic re-assessment programmes (like Gas Safe).

 

Regarding items that do not pass the advice checks - if an examiner refuses to issue a certificate in these circumstances, please ask for a failure report and then with that in your possession, contact the BSS Manager, or any other members of the team including me, and explain that you are being refused a certification on the basis of meeting the BSS requirements but not passing advice checks.

 

HTH

Rob

 

Details sent by PM