H & S in a marina

[fluff001]

A scenario that is hardly transferable to the workplace though is it?

learning starts from a young age ! and that continues into adulthood !

[Machpoint005]

I'm struggling to see the relevance of this to the OP so I'll choose to ignore post 74 above.

 

There's more to workplace H&S than safety guards. The Factories Act 1961 used the concept of a 'safe place of work'. That encompasses all foreseeable hazards.

learning starts from a young age ! and that continues into adulthood !

 

'Learning' includes being receptive to health and safety training and information.

[Guest]

learning starts from a young age ! and that continues into adulthood !

 

Yes and?

 

The point is that learning means that you would avoid things if you could if you knew they were going to cause you harm. This is not always possible in the workplace, sometimes you have to do things that are hazardous such as work with dangerous substances or work at a height. This is where H&S legislation kicks in, because if it wasn't there some unscrupulous employer would still expect you to do the things that are dangerous/hazardous but wouldn't provide you with the safety equipment and/or the method to do it safely.

 

So whilst your post sounded great as a 'one liner' on an internet forum, in practice it has no relevance in a proper discussion about Health & Safety in the workplace.

[Jerra]

i couldnt agree more ! when i was a kid i learned that if i climbed a tree and fell out it hurtand it was my fault for climbing the tree ! now days they but a barrier around it ! to me thats not learning !

When I was a kid I lived across the road from a park /playground. A kid fell while climbing a tree and was wheelchair bound. Many learned the pros and cons of climbing a tree without personal experience, but at a hell of a cost.

[CDS]

 

He is perfectly capable

 

His "garden" is an unkempt mess.

 

I suggested that perhaps he might like to cut the grass, and put in a couple of flower beds, because that would make his home a nicer place to live in.

 

His response is "It's the councils grass, they should cut it, and why should I spend money on making the garden nice for the benefit of the next tenant (probably in 20 years time)

As Dave P said earlier,its a matter for the local council to despatch a housing inspector.I remember Tony Blair brought in Frank Field with the brief to

think the unthinkable,Field came up with many thoughts,one of which was to link council tenancy to the ability to keep the property in order.Blair sacked him.

"Council House Slob Mentality" thats a bit of an unfortunate and inaccurate phrase,slobs are not confined to council houses,In the sixties and seventies I was

raised in a council house and looking back the sense of both pride and community is the one thing I remember.No woman would ever have left her step unwashed

for fear of the neighbours talking about her. All a bit warm beer and cricket on the village green,I know.

I can't understand why the OP asks who is responsible for H&S in a marina and suddenly it becomes a DIY thread and if you don't agree

you become a mollycoddled lazy council house dweller

Edited November 27, 2015 by CDS

[Laurie Booth]

 

I was in a marina where a complaint would have led to a bye bye.

Sounds like a marina on the K&A

[mayalld]

As Dave P said earlier,its a matter for the local council to despatch a housing inspector.I remember Tony Blair brought in Frank Field with the brief to

think the unthinkable,Field came up with many thoughts,one of which was to link council tenancy to the ability to keep the property in order.Blair sacked him.

"Council House Slob Mentality" thats a bit of an unfortunate and inaccurate phrase,slobs are not confined to council houses,In the sixties and seventies I was

raised in a council house and looking back the sense of both pride and community is the one thing I remember.No woman would ever have left her step unwashed

for fear of the neighbours talking about her.

 

 

I don't think it unfortunate. I think it accurate.

 

Had I said "Council House Mentality" you would have been right to take me to task, because it is absolutely the case that many people in council houses take EXTREME pride in their home (his next door neighbour is one such). Equally, there are homeowners who take no pride.

 

I used the phrase because it exemplifies the attitude of "I don't own it, so I don't care about it"

[Dave_P]

 

He is perfectly capable

 

His "garden" is an unkempt mess.

 

I suggested that perhaps he might like to cut the grass, and put in a couple of flower beds, because that would make his home a nicer place to live in.

 

His response is "It's the councils grass, they should cut it, and why should I spend money on making the garden nice for the benefit of the next tenant (probably in 20 years time)

So nothing to do with health & safety then. Thanks for clearing that up.

[mayalld]

So nothing to do with health & safety then. Thanks for clearing that up.

 

No, but everything to do with an attitude that somebody else should do something

[Dave_P]

i couldnt agree more ! when i was a kid i learned that if i climbed a tree and fell out it hurtand it was my fault for climbing the tree ! now days they but a barrier around it ! to me thats not learning !

It's also irrelevant. Did you pay someone for the right to climb the tree? No, thought not.

[madcat]

I'm amazed by how narrow and slippery some Marina pontoons are . Not a problem where I moor but I've visited some places that didn't inspire confidence .

[Graham.m]

Thank you for your replies.

I have been in the marina for just over a year and feel that it as been allowed to become " a little worn " The pontoon/jetty comprises of wooden boards with small lathes on every other board. Some boards have been replaced and the lathes are being replaced with thin anti slip strips. There is and hand rail along the pontoon/jetty. The boards are very slippery when wet and the lathes cause a trip hazard. My boat is moored at one of the furthest points from the car park due to its length. Close to my boat is a yard which is let out by the marina to a couple of businesses which as a locked gate to allow access to the sheds. This area also contains the elsan point. I have asked for a key to the gate to allow easy access rather than risk of injury whilst the jetty is having its work done. And looking at some of the boards which have deteriated over years rather than months I am not sure how long the work may take. I know certain people who have health problems that have got keys to the gate but they have insisted no more keys will be given out. I have a loss of left leg which I have had since the age of 17 I have never claimed any disability and worked all my life but sometimes there are certain situations that are a little more difficult than compared with an able bodied person. I know that able bodied people have also slipped and one girl actually fell into the canal but wether she slipped or misjudged I am not sure. The only answer I got was that in certain words if the marina is not suitable we will be sorry to see you go

 

In that case it might be time to ring the local HSE office. Report the situation and that this is an area where the public and customers have to go.

[CDS]

 

I don't think it unfortunate. I think it accurate.

 

Had I said "Council House Mentality" you would have been right to take me to task, because it is absolutely the case that many people in council houses take EXTREME pride in their home (his next door neighbour is one such). Equally, there are homeowners who take no pride.

 

I used the phrase because it exemplifies the attitude of "I don't own it, so I don't care about it"

I think slob mentality would have done without the council house prefix and as regards exemplifying an attitude I think

it says more about your attitude than that of the council house tenant

[madcat]

Our garden isn't spectacularly tidy and we own it . It's down to character not where you live . My relatives in council housing were keen gardeners, I'm not .

 

I don't really understand why Marina operators are so careless about the state of the pontoons , it's a lot harder to get out of the water than to fall in. I'm not risk adverse and certainly take chances at times but not with other people's safety.

Edited November 27, 2015 by madcat

[kingswood]

yes they wait till im not on the boat then jet wash all the slippy woodwork ,so every ones boat gets a good sandblasting

[lesanne]

When we moved marinas this year we were allocated a pontoon which had some boards loose and some missing.

 

I was worried that I might trip and fall (I am recovering from a stroke and still have poor balance) so I screwed down the loose ones and replaced those which were missing.

 

This was so that I felt safer. The alternatives - complaining to the marina, the HSE, the Queen etc - were other possibilities but I thought I would get a quicker result by fixing it myself. So I was motivated by pure self-interest, I'd rather not fall than fall and get compensation.

 

That doesn't mean that I wouldn't wish to see employers forced to look after their workers, nor that I disagree that responsibility really lay with the marina. It just means that I didn't want to trip.

 

Frank.

If I read this right, you agree that it is the marina's responsibility to make sure that the place is safe.

[lesanne]

yes they wait till im not on the boat then jet wash all the slippy woodwork ,so every ones boat gets a good sandblasting

If they pressure washed your pontoons it is in your best interest, and good on the management for doing what is necessary

 

If the job was done properly, any 'overblast' should have been rinsed off with the hose soon afterwards.

If it wasn't you have every right to complain in no uncertain terms to whoever pressure washed the pontoon and expect you boat to be in the same condition as when you left it before the pontoon were cleaned.

[frahkn]

If I read this right, you agree that it is the marina's responsibility to make sure that the place is safe.

 

Yep, absolutely as far as the legal position stands. If I fall in it is their responsibility, I can seek compensation and the HSE might prosecute if they felt it was serious enough (say I drowned or was badly injured).

 

But I don't want to fall in at all, so I did something about it.

 

Employers who put employees at risk through thoughtlessness or to save money, are a different matter - you can shoot them for all I care.

 

 

 

Frank

[lesanne]

Personally, I would be very miffed if the marina owners were putting me at risk through their thoughtlessness.

[GreyLady]

Personally, I would be very miffed if the marina owners were putting me at risk through their thoughtlessness.

Me too, if my mum or dad come a cropper from poor pontoon maintenance they would know about it big time.

[CDS]

Me too, if my mum or dad come a cropper from poor pontoon maintenance they would know about it big time.

I remember Milton Keynes Marina when the new owner first took over,one morning on jetty 1,a one eyed

Albanian rolled up with a roll of chicken wire and started to nail it to the wooden pontoons to provide a non

slip surface.Does anyone know if its still there?I left soon afterwards as I objected to the 100% mooring charge

increase,I understand its now populated in the main by people on housing benefit or people new to boating.

[frahkn]

Me too, if my mum or dad come a cropper from poor pontoon maintenance they would know about it big time.

 

I don't mean this to be nasty or miserable (in the tone of some previous posts).

 

You know about the maintenance problem, if you can fix the issue with little inconvenience to yourself you will obtain a quicker and probably more satisfactory result than 'them' doing it. Of course, if you cannot then 'they' are your only recourse.

 

But there is an attitude these days, of "it's their responsibility so I'll be buggered if I'm going to do it - I'd rather fall in".

 

I'm not saying the apportionment of responsibility is incorrect but the attitude is. It's like the guy who steps onto the zebra crossing in front of a speeding car because "it's the driver's responsibility to drive per the highway code and be ready to stop". It is but that won't save the guy.

 

Frank

[GreyLady]

I don't mean this to be nasty or miserable (in the tone of some previous posts).

 

You know about the maintenance problem, if you can fix the issue with little inconvenience to yourself you will obtain a quicker and probably more satisfactory result than 'them' doing it. Of course, if you cannot then 'they' are your only recourse.

 

But there is an attitude these days, of "it's their responsibility so I'll be buggered if I'm going to do it - I'd rather fall in".

 

I'm not saying the apportionment of responsibility is incorrect but the attitude is. It's like the guy who steps onto the zebra crossing in front of a speeding car because "it's the driver's responsibility to drive per the highway code and be ready to stop". It is but that won't save the guy.

 

Frank

I totally agree with what you say me and dad would definitely replace a plank or two because we're both the get stuck in type, some people might be unable to get on their nackered knees to do a repair like that, and in reality the Marina Pontoons should be safe to use without the boaters having to get their tools out.

 

Their is also the culpribility of someone blaming you/us if someone was to have an accident on the same pontoon that's been repaired by a boater.

 

As it's been said it's a blaim and claim society these days.

 

Edited November 28, 2015 by GreyLady

[Graham.m]

 

I don't mean this to be nasty or miserable (in the tone of some previous posts).

 

You know about the maintenance problem, if you can fix the issue with little inconvenience to yourself you will obtain a quicker and probably more satisfactory result than 'them' doing it. Of course, if you cannot then 'they' are your only recourse.

 

But there is an attitude these days, of "it's their responsibility so I'll be buggered if I'm going to do it - I'd rather fall in".

 

I'm not saying the apportionment of responsibility is incorrect but the attitude is. It's like the guy who steps onto the zebra crossing in front of a speeding car because "it's the driver's responsibility to drive per the highway code and be ready to stop". It is but that won't save the guy.

 

Frank

 

There is a missed point here. While it is laudable for someone to put right something for which they have no responsibility what is the effect of doing the little or major bit of work?

 

I think you will find that if someone is hurt, damaged etc as a result of the non-company works the liability will fall on the shoulders of the person who carried out the works not the marina. Thus I suggest, by doing the work you take on the liability if something goes wrong.

Edited November 28, 2015 by Graham.m

[mayalld]

I think slob mentality would have done without the council house prefix and as regards exemplifying an attitude I think

it says more about your attitude than that of the council house tenant

The key point was actually not that some people are slobs, but that the sheer magnitude of slobbish tendencies is magnified by the fact that they don't own the house