H & S in a marina

[ditchcrawler]

Well as I way 2 grand a year I don't intend to maintain the place as well. I pay to have my car serviced so I wouldn't expect to have to change the oil when I got it back.

[frahkn]

 

There is a missed point here. While it is laudable for someone to put right something for which they have no responsibility what is the effect of doing the little or major bit of work?

 

I think you will find that if someone is hurt, damaged etc as a result of the non-company works the liability will fall on the shoulders of the person who carried out the works not the marina. Thus I suggest, by doing the work you take on the liability if something goes wrong.

 

If I don't do the work I risk falling in and drowning - remember that I am recovering from a stroke and would not be able to get out without assistance. Obviously people of your persuasion would not want to give that assistance (I presume) in case this led to risk of your taking on responsibility for any further injury (which is fair enough - I should have acted to prevent myself falling in in the first place, not relied on a third party to pull me out).

 

So I am left balancing risks and I chose to risk potential liability for the theoretical injury to others rather than risk my falling in. I feel that I have to take responsibility for my own actions - no one else will act!

 

Frank.

[Graham.m]

 

If I don't do the work I risk falling in and drowning - remember that I am recovering from a stroke and would not be able to get out without assistance. Obviously people of your persuasion would not want to give that assistance (I presume) in case this led to risk of your taking on responsibility for any further injury (which is fair enough - I should have acted to prevent myself falling in in the first place, not relied on a third party to pull me out).

 

So I am left balancing risks and I chose to risk potential liability for the theoretical injury to others rather than risk my falling in. I feel that I have to take responsibility for my own actions - no one else will act!

 

Frank.

 

No Frank you are not left balancing risks there are routes open to you, one I suggested earlier a phone call to HSE,

 

 

As for your comment, highlighted in red in the quote I find it highly objectionable that you would presume that just because I pointed out that whoever did the work took responsibility. I have spent a large part of my life doing voluntary work, part of which was as a County Staff officer for St Johns Ambulance Brigade with who I spent many weekends caring for people who got themselves into problems taking part in events ranging from Running, motocross, horsy events.

[tidal]

I've been reading this with increasing frustration and feel I have to make (reiterate) a few points

 

1. If the pontoons are dangerous report them to management of the marina
2. If the public have access report the problems to both the marina and the HSE
3. If you continue to use them in their dangerous condition you are knowingly putting yourself at risk and this may make you at least partially responsible for any injuries you suffer as a result
4. You must also make sure that any faults are communicated to other users of the pontoons in question by whatever method you feel is best
5. You are entitled to make any temporary "repairs" you think are necessary and safe but if you do you may make yourself partially liable to any subsequent claims for injury by other parties
   
   

Some additional information regarding the above points
3) You should point out to the marina management that if you cannot safely use the pontoons for access to your boat you will be looking for a reduction/refund of your mooring fees for any period when you cannot access your mooring and that they may be liable for any damage to your vessel that results from your inability to access it.

4) You may legally signpost the area with details of the possible hazards you have observed but be careful how these are worded

5) Be very careful with any repairs you carry out and ensure that you are competent to effect them. The reasons for this should be obvious

[Alan de Enfield]

The reason is simple. The responsibility for assessing risk and thereby reducing risk falls on the person best placed to do so. In the case of a marina, that responsibility must fall on the owner or operator. Anything else just doesn't work. Customers/service users or whatever you want to call them are rarely in the best position to make that judgement. Leaving it to each individual customer to attend to safety issues as they see fit is likely to lead to all kinds of heath-robinson solutions and may also lead to immediate neighbours and others being put at more risk (say, if they swept all their slippery leaves to the bit of pontoon right outside someone else boat).

 

It would be nice to think that all individuals behave entirely altruistically. and are only concerned with the greater good of humanity, but sadly, we aren't.

 

Also, pushing the responisibility back to the individuals affected allows business owners to wash their hands of dealing with pesky (and costly) H&S measures. We would end up with workplaces reverting to the Victorian factory model. Are you aware of how many people were killed and maimed annually at work prior to current H&S legislation being enacted? Usually in entirely preventable ways and down to greedy and selfish bosses.

 

Interestingly - I was in a marina on Friday discussing a mooring with them - a condition of mooring was that you kept your own 'pontoon' (finger) clean, algae and 'slime free' for which a jet-wash was available.

 

Don't know how that 'squares' with the law but there was 180 boats in there which, presumably, the owners of had signed the T&Cs

[tidal]

That's quite a common clause on fingers that are only used by one boat (ime) but I haven't seen it applied to fingers with moorings either side.

And I have no idea how it can be "squared" with the relevant legislation (or if it can)

[tidal]

And thinking about it, how do marina users deal with snow/ice on pontoons or fingers. When I had a single boat freshwater berth I sorted the finger out for my own access (at my own risk) but who should/does deal with the main pontoons where you all are?
We (those users who were there at the time) all helped to clear them but only with help from the marina operators

 

Much easier in saltwater marinas of course (except in very extreme conditions)

[Alan de Enfield]

And thinking about it, how do marina users deal with snow/ice on pontoons or fingers. When I had a single boat freshwater berth I sorted the finger out for my own access (at my own risk) but who should/does deal with the main pontoons where you all are?

We (those users who were there at the time) all helped to clear them but only with help from the marina operators

 

Much easier in saltwater marinas of course (except in very extreme conditions)

 

The (freshwater) marina we are currently in provides 'salt' at the top of each pontoon, whoever is 1st out in the morning generally takes a few shovel-fulls and spreads then down the length of the pontoon ( about 30 berths long each side), the berth holders then clear their (joint) fingers if they are on board or so inclined.

 

Who takes the responsibility if the ice is ineffectively cleared, or the situation is made worse by 'partial clearance' ?

[Jess--]

 

The (freshwater) marina we are currently in provides 'salt' at the top of each pontoon, whoever is 1st out in the morning generally takes a few shovel-fulls and spreads then down the length of the pontoon ( about 30 berths long each side), the berth holders then clear their (joint) fingers if they are on board or so inclined.

 

Who takes the responsibility if the ice is ineffectively cleared, or the situation is made worse by 'partial clearance' ?

The person or company that failed to clear the snow / ice.

 

This is the reason a lot of businesses will not clear the snow from their car parks etc, as soon as they attempt to clear it they become responsible for any incident resulting from them failing to clear it completely

[Dave_P]

 

No Frank you are not left balancing risks there are routes open to you, one I suggested earlier a phone call to HSE,

As for your comment, highlighted in red in the quote I find it highly objectionable that you would presume that just because I pointed out that whoever did the work took responsibility. I have spent a large part of my life doing voluntary work, part of which was as a County Staff officer for St Johns Ambulance Brigade with who I spent many weekends caring for people who got themselves into problems taking part in events ranging from Running, motocross, horsy events.

Actually it's local authorities who generally take responsibility in these cases. Not the HSE. Of course the drastic staff reductions in local authorities have left them with the barest skeleton of staff. The authority I was working for about 3 years ago made all but one of their H&S officers redundant. Other authorities have none at all and simply tack-on thr H&S duties to other officers. Usually food or housing inspectors. This means that, in practice, H&S work is merely reactive. i.e. Nothing happens until someone is killed or seriously injured.

 

Interestingly - I was in a marina on Friday discussing a mooring with them - a condition of mooring was that you kept your own 'pontoon' (finger) clean, algae and 'slime free' for which a jet-wash was available.

 

Don't know how that 'squares' with the law but there was 180 boats in there which, presumably, the owners of had signed the T&Cs

Was the condition for housekeeping purposes only?

[Alan de Enfield]

Alan de Enfield, on 29 Nov 2015 - 08:57 AM, said:

 

Interestingly - I was in a marina on Friday discussing a mooring with them - a condition of mooring was that you kept your own 'pontoon' (finger) clean, algae and 'slime free' for which a jet-wash was available.

 

Don't know how that 'squares' with the law but there was 180 boats in there which, presumably, the owners of had signed the T&Cs

Was the condition for housekeeping purposes only?

 

There were conditions for 'housekeeping' (ie no rubbish etc on pontoon) but there was a specific statement regarding keeping the pontoon free of algae and slime which I can only presume was to avoid the occupant and their visitors slipping..

 

Irrelevant really as marina not 'nice' ( location, access, availability of shops etc etc)

[RichardN]

You didn't but the implication was that H & S was useless and holding things back. If you were a relative of one of (still sadly too many) people who die because of work related deaths you might wish H & S was ven more powerful and active.

 

Just my opinion of course.

 

Very good point. Our current accident rate remains unacceptable.

 

If you think H&S is too much then it is well worth doing an internet search for "Jason Anchor". There is a Youtube video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UroWBAL2NB8 though if you search more you should find a 25 minute interview, you get a choice of one with and one without swear words, I have only seen the one with and it is not easy viewing.

[PaulG]

 

Interestingly - I was in a marina on Friday discussing a mooring with them - a condition of mooring was that you kept your own 'pontoon' (finger) clean, algae and 'slime free' for which a jet-wash was available.

 

And presumably they have been given suitable training in the safe use of the pressure washer in a marina environment?

[ditchcrawler]

And presumably they have been given suitable training in the safe use of the pressure washer in a marina environment?

Maybe you provide your own on your boat