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New Boat - To good to be true?


KirstieH

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Hello kind boaters.

 

I am looking at purchasing a liveaboard and am on a budget. I know the old saying buy cheap buy twice, but I am also familiar with beggars can't be choosers...and a fool and her money are easily parted etc...

 

http://www.newandusedboat.co.uk/used-boat.php?boatID=664

 

I am bound to fall into one of these categories but I really like the particulars of this boat...however there are warning signs:

 

1) Exhibit 1 - The photo of quite significant blackening (Water damage? to kitchen unit and gunwhales)

2) Exhibit 2 - V odd layout (Personal Pref)

3) Exhibit 3 - Engine not serviced since 2011!

4) Exhibit 4 - Needs Blacking

5) Exhibit 5 - No recent survey

6) Exhibit 6 - Not great quality fit out.

 

Good things:

 

1) Cheap.....or is it...

2) Broker seems nice

3) Liverpool Boats shell..

 

I think I have talked myself out of this one unsure.png

 

Worth a look or avoid like the plague? Your thoughts....

 

 

 

 

 

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Kirstie, Liverpool were a volume builder towards the budget end of the market. They built hundreds of boats, some of which (like this one according to the advert) they fitted out themselves. They tended to be workmanlike rather than flashy - no exotic hardwoods, granite worktops and other such frippery.

 

The spec looks reasonable: a decent engine, a bath (not common on cheaper boats), good cooker (we have the same model in our boat). I would be chary of relying on a diesel stove for direct heat and for central heating: if it goes phut! you'd be left with no heating at all.

 

I suspect that the current owners have not used the boat much; this would explain the lack of recent blacking and servicing, and could have something to do with the apparent dark patches which suggest damp (though some may be shadows) on the woodwork. The interior layout I would describe as barmy - why on earth have the kitchen at one end and the saloon at the other?

 

The price probably reflects these concerns and the way in which they will limit the craft's appeal to potential buyers. Have you been and viewed the boat?

 

It's a fair bit of boat for the money but I suggest that you could do better. What is your budget?

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Certainly looks like the galley has flooded at some time.

Or is it just the creepy music in the video that's putting you off?smile.png

Hey that is it's biggest selling point!

Kirstie, Liverpool were a volume builder towards the budget end of the market. They built hundreds of boats, some of which (like this one according to the advert) they fitted out themselves. They tended to be workmanlike rather than flashy - no exotic hardwoods, granite worktops and other such frippery.

 

The spec looks reasonable: a decent engine, a bath (not common on cheaper boats), good cooker (we have the same model in our boat). I would be chary of relying on a diesel stove for direct heat and for central heating: if it goes phut! you'd be left with no heating at all.

 

I suspect that the current owners have not used the boat much; this would explain the lack of recent blacking and servicing, and could have something to do with the apparent dark patches which suggest damp (though some may be shadows) on the woodwork. The interior layout I would describe as barmy - why on earth have the kitchen at one end and the saloon at the other?

 

The price probably reflects these concerns and the way in which they will limit the craft's appeal to potential buyers. Have you been and viewed the boat?

 

It's a fair bit of boat for the money but I suggest that you could do better. What is your budget?

Some good points here.

 

Budget is MAX 38K - We will need to live on as it and fingers crossed no big expensive jobs come up for a while!

Doesn't seem to be much storage space for a liveaboard

 

haggis

True but I am a wonder are creating storage an we are pretty minimal people. I have been practising my narrowboat life by selling everything I own and living on the basics. Most important = jumpers, gloves and wet weather gear and an endless pot of cash right?

Looks ok to me, although they never look the same in real life as they do in the advert, might be better, might be worse. Agree that it doesn't seem to have been very well maintained. Probably worth a look if it's not too far away.

This si the pain....we are miles away from all the decent places to look at boats. Sussex is not known for its canals LOL

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In most cases ( unless it was very old and needed a survey for insurance purposes) a boat will only have a survey when it is sold. If it DOES have a recent survey, that could mean that someone bought it recently, and found it had 'problems' or it didn't suit them so they are selling it on, or, it had a pre-purchase survey which highlighted 'issues' so the buyer did not proceed.

 

Having a recent survey is generally not a good thing.

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Hi Kirsty,

 

Well, you've already listed quite a few more disadvantages than advantages, and you aren't going to buy it without looking at it are you, so it might be worth a nosey whilst you don't have stars in your eyes if Droitwich isn't too far.

 

In terms of your listing:

 

1. Can't tell what's going on there from a photo - could be mould or even a shadow as Athy said.

2. Kitchen one end and lounge the other is a bit unusual! Kitchen by the steering position can be an advantage for loading groceries, as the first place the dog stops and when you need a cuppa on the move.

3. That should be at least 3-4 annual oil changes, but its much easier to say the oil's been changed than to really do it, so at least it looks honest! Maybe it hasn't been anywhere since 11, or maybe the last professional service was in 11 and the owner has done the work since?

4. Most do! If it's out for a survey and you like it, then would be the time to do it - but the steel is too cold now for a decent job imho. Nick at Droitwich Spa Marina does do a decent job if you wanted it doing there this spring (I've seen him at work).

5. That's not really a negative - why would it have been done recently? You'd probably want your own on a boat this age and you'd be remiss to accept someone else's anyway!.

6. Athy answered that in terms of Liverpool Boats. You pay more for a quality fit out - just don't pay too much for something that's not worth it and remember that you have to live with it, so don't buy if you're not happy.

 

I've just spotted you've newly added that your budget is £38k - you may be fishing in the wrong pond as 10K can make quite a difference! All boats are a compromise, but if you intend to live on it full time then your compromises need to be well chosen. The saloon to kitchen displacement wouldn't work for me, for example.

 

Good luck!

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In most cases ( unless it was very old and needed a survey for insurance purposes) a boat will only have a survey when it is sold. If it DOES have a recent survey, that could mean that someone bought it recently, and found it had 'problems' or it didn't suit them so they are selling it on, or, it had a pre-purchase survey which highlighted 'issues' so the buyer did not proceed.

 

Having a recent survey is generally not a good thing.

That is very interesting advice..I am making notes

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This is the pain....we are miles away from all the decent places to look at boats. Sussex is not known for its canals LOL

I feel your pain: Mrs. Athy and I lived in Uckfield when we were hunting for our first boat. We found it best to book into a Midlands inn overnight so that we had time to go to a few brokerages (which, though they may seem distant from each other by rcanal, are surprisingly close by road). Forgive me if I'm telling you what you already know - I'm not sure of the extent of your boating experience.

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Hi Kirsty,

 

Well, you've already listed quite a few more disadvantages than advantages, and you aren't going to buy it without looking at it are you, so it might be worth a nosey whilst you don't have stars in your eyes if Droitwich isn't too far.

 

In terms of your listing:

 

1. Can't tell what's going on there from a photo - could be mould or even a shadow as Athy said.

2. Kitchen one end and lounge the other is a bit unusual! Kitchen by the steering position can be an advantage for loading groceries, as the first place the dog stops and when you need a cuppa on the move.

3. That should be at least 3-4 annual oil changes, but its much easier to say the oil's been changed than to really do it, so at least it looks honest! Maybe it hasn't been anywhere since 11, or maybe the last professional service was in 11 and the owner has done the work since?

4. Most do! If it's out for a survey and you like it, then would be the time to do it - but the steel is too cold now for a decent job imho. Nick at Droitwich Spa Marina does do a decent job if you wanted it doing there this spring (I've seen him at work).

5. That's not really a negative - why would it have been done recently? You'd probably want your own on a boat this age and you'd be remiss to accept someone else's anyway!.

6. Athy answered that in terms of Liverpool Boats. You pay more for a quality fit out - just don't pay too much for something that's not worth it and remember that you have to live with it, so don't buy if you're not happy.

 

I've just spotted you've newly added that your budget is £38k - you may be fishing in the wrong pond as 10K can make quite a difference! All boats are a compromise, but if you intend to live on it full time then your compromises need to be well chosen. The saloon to kitchen displacement wouldn't work for me, for example.

 

Good luck!

All good stuff here.

 

Yes I guess I was initially blinded by the fab price! To me I didn't seem to be getting much more for £38k. One thing I have noticed is that the price on the label seems to have little to do with what you are buying .i.e. some of these prices seem like they have been plucked out of the air!

 

I know it is a case of buyer beware, but I am making notes on all the useful info you guys are giving me. I need to take the plunge and look but I would mean an expensive trip to the midlands and I need to make sure there is enough worth seeing to make it worth it.

 

I agree the layout is bonkers and tricky to move....

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I feel your pain: Mrs. Athy and I lived in Uckfield when we were hunting for our first boat. We found it best to book into a Midlands inn overnight so that we had time to go to a few brokerages (which, though they may seem distant from each other by rcanal, are surprisingly close by road). Forgive me if I'm telling you what you already know - I'm not sure of the extent of your boating experience.

My experience is holiday only! However not fair weather as we can only afford it when it's raining and gale force winds LOL. Did you buy on your first trip?

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A couple of trips to the Midlands looking at boats will be a lot less expensive than buying the wrong boat

 

Sage words indeed.

Did you buy on your first trip?

No, we visited various boatyards over about a 2-month period, finally narrowed (no pun intended) our choice down to two boats at Whilton Marina (who have a very large stock of boats from the sublime to the corblimey) and bought one of them.

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I hear you! When you have little money, it's best not to pop it in a money pit!

Yes I am limited to when I can go but thinking 3 trips over 3 months should give us and idea of the stock.. maybe in the new year?

Or before if you can. Prices tend to go up a bit in Spring because everyone wants to go boating. In Autumn there are people who haven't sold their boats and who want rid of them, so bargains can be had. We bought ours in November (1997 I think) at a substantial saving on the advertised price.

  • Greenie 1
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Pretty well the same layout as mine although I'm a fatboat & have a corridor.

Stove in front so that would keep Salon & bedroom warm in winter.

When guests aboard they can enter either end without entering bed

or bathroom so ensuring some privacy.

Layout works for me really well.

Have a look at as many layouts as you can & consider what would work for you.

Not what works for everyone else.

Of course if it isn't usual layout this may affect resale which could be why an 'attractive' price?

The darker marks could be as simple as something damp has been left laying there?

If that was from say, a sinking, i would expect a bit more mould damage elsewhere.

Also a springy floor.

Edit-Fit out doesn't look too shabby.

Wait till you see some of them out theresick.gif

Edited by Dinz
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I just put £40K in a search at Wilton and there were several boats newer than the one you looked at came up http://www.whiltonmarina.co.uk/used-narrowboats/default.aspx

I can do that too ninja.gif but I was trying to get myself a bargain. However I think I may have known the answer before I posted. However posting has given me so much good advice, it was very worthwhile. 40K is the top end for me and it would need to be ticking all the boxes. Newness doesn't matter to me as much as solidity and being watertightdetective.gif

Pretty well the same layout as mine although I'm a fatboat & have a corridor.

Stove in front so that would keep Salon & bedroom warm in winter.

When guests aboard they can enter either end without entering bed

or bathroom so ensuring some privacy.

Layout works for me really well.

Have a look at as many layouts as you can & consider what would work for you.

Not what works for everyone else.

Of course if it isn't usual layout this may affect resale which could be why an 'attractive' price?

The darker marks could be as simple as something damp has been left laying there?

If that was from say, a sinking, i would expect a bit more mould damage elsewhere.

Also a springy floor.

Edit-Fit out doesn't look too shabby.

Wait till you see some of them out theresick.gif

I know I am terrified at what I might come across at the lower end of the budget. If I see an air freshener or dirty pants I am out of there!

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Another for that money

http://greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/images/pdf_files/Tazmania%20Brochure%20Main%20Page.pdf if your tripping around midlands brokers.

 

Edited to add for an extra few grand there is http://greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/images/pdf_files/Lucky%20Lady%20Brochure%20Main%20Page.pdf soild fuel stove etc. but older.

 

another 1999/2006 28K http://www.boatfinderbrokerage.co.uk/boat/120021/

Edited by Mendip-Locks
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Another for that money

http://greathaywoodboatsales.co.uk/images/pdf_files/Tazmania%20Brochure%20Main%20Page.pdf if your tripping around midlands brokers.

No I did look at that one! It is an INSANE colour, but perfect inside for us. It might be worth a look, I could always repaint in the future. I was a bit worried about Great Haywood, maybe I muddled them up with Whilton?

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Each time I've bought a boat I've found myself trawling the net during the week then making a trip up to the midlands every weekend for about three months before finding one I'm prepared to buy.

 

The one point that stands out is how different a boat is when you see it for real from how it looks in a sales listing. You really HAVE to look at loads.

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Each time I've bought a boat I've found myself trawling the net during the week then making a trip up to the midlands every weekend for about three months before finding one I'm prepared to buy.

 

The one point that stands out is how different a boat is when you see it for real from how it looks in a sales listing. You really HAVE to look at loads.

I will I promise biggrin.png Our main issue is we have a dog and no parents between us who can help out to look after him so a travel lodge or cheap place to stay is always difficult. We might have to do it as our "Holiday" and maybe camp somewhere central...not in December though brrrrrrrr

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Looks ok to me, although they never look the same in real life as they do in the advert, might be better, might be worse. Agree that it doesn't seem to have been very well maintained. Probably worth a look if it's not too far away.

+1

 

Looks fine, and not too cheap. Go and have a look.

 

I went to look at a boat that didn't look good, but was very cheap. Went to have a look. Nothing wrong with it. Couldn't buy it fast enough! Didn't negotiate, and still love it 4 years on

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I will I promise biggrin.png Our main issue is we have a dog and no parents between us who can help out to look after him so a travel lodge or cheap place to stay is always difficult. We might have to do it as our "Holiday" and maybe camp somewhere central...not in December though brrrrrrrr

 

 

Hmmmm mebbe you should make friends with Starcoaster on here. She LURVES dogs and I'm wondering if she may be open to striking a deal for a dog hotel service. I may be out of turn suggesting this so don't count on it .

 

Edit to add:

 

On reflection prolly a stoopid idea. I bet the cat will veto the project!!!

Edited by Mike the Boilerman
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