Narrow Boat World Article About Our Incident at Hillmorton on 25th August

[Graham.m]

 

 

You're not making a very good case for allowing VLK autonomy over control of the locks. Boaters are not going to assume the lockie has precedence over their own decisions in the responsibility for the safety of their crew and vessels, based on ill trained staffing.

 

I don't need to make a case for Volockies autonomy over control of lock whilst my boat is entering, in or leaving a lock. That control and responsibility is mine.

 

All I ask and I think Allan is asking is that Volockies as part of their training are taught to react instantly to requests to shut paddles etc when someone else thinks all is not well.

[mango]

It's rather strange that given the CRT claim mentioned earlier in the thread that there are now 700 VLKs, that none of them have popped up here with an opinion.

Maybe there are not many who would enjoy the vilification. No doubt that's one reason why CRT staff don't (at least openly) contribute.

[Higgs]

 

I don't need to make a case for Volockies autonomy over control of lock whilst my boat is entering, in or leaving a lock. That control and responsibility is mine.

 

All I ask and I think Allan is asking is that Volockies as part of their training are taught to react instantly to requests to shut paddles etc when someone else thinks all is not well.

 

 

I don't think most boaters would turn down an offer to open or close the lock gates. The in-between bit, on signals from the boater

[Graham.m]

 

 

I don't think most boaters would turn down an offer to open or close the lock gates. The in-between bit, on signals from the boater

 

Nor do I but the responsibility etc is mine.

[bassplayer]

 

At no point have I personally labelled the lock keeper as incompetent, and I went to great lengths both when I disclosed the original details, and in the report made to CRT to stress he had been polite throughout, and, once the initial scare was over, worked with us to get the boat safely through the lock.

 

He did however totally refuse to two attempts by Cath to persuade him there was a major problem , and hence did not take the required action. You can either believe that or not - your choice. We genuinely have no idea why he apparently thought all would be OK.

 

We do not know what his version of events is, because we have not been told, (although obviously we would like to be).

I suppose you could ask him. Did he explain his actions at the time?

 

BTW, I know you personally haven't accused him of being incompetent, although I'm not sure of the merits of dragging it up in another thread again.

[Tecka]

although I'm not sure of the merits of dragging it up in another thread again.

 

 

In defence of Alan, this thread was purely regarding the article naming him, his boat and his family. It's been myself and others who have led the thread away from the original point.

[bassplayer]

 

In defence of Alan, this thread was purely regarding the article naming him, his boat and his family. It's been myself and others who have led the thread away from the original point.

...and probably me now....oops...

[Higgs]

 

Nor do I but the responsibility etc is mine.

 

 

It wouldn't be in my mind to give up control through the whole process of locking. I can of course hang back and not throw my weight around. With each lock assistance, the boater must make the assessment as to how much to let the lockie set the pace and method. It is hoped in most cases, the boater would not have to feel uneasy about doing what they find is comfortable for their usual use of locks.

[alan_fincher]

 

In defence of Alan, this thread was purely regarding the article naming him, his boat and his family. It's been myself and others who have led the thread away from the original point.

 

Exactly. The sole point of this second thread was for us to dissociate us from Allan Richards' article, because we feel it is written in a manner that might have suggested we approved of it being published at the time it was.

 

I knew from past experience that any attempt to contact Tom/"Victor" to get our position on the matter stated on the NBW site would be quite pointless.

[Tecka]

...and probably me now....oops...

 

 

[Higgs]

The best-laid plans of mice and men...

Edited October 31, 2015 by Higgs

[bassplayer]

The problem with displaying dirty washing in public is that it has a nasty habit of biting us back on the bum.

 

Getting back on topic it's simply bad manners to publically publish personal information without the approval of those mentioned. The trouble is the mass media do it all of the time. Mind you they probably have the funds and connections to get away with it when defending law suits....

[NilesMI]

The sole point of this second thread was for us to dissociate us from Allan Richards' article, because we feel it is written in a manner that might have suggested we approved of it being published at the time it was.

 

I think you have made that clear and cited your reasons.

 

But the whole point of a free press is that they are able to publish without needing the approval of particular groups or particular individuals or even to present both sides of a story. Unless you believe the article has defamed you or intruded on your private and personal life, you really don't have a say in what the press writes about you or to insist that they include your point of view in whatever they write.

 

Clearly what NBW have done has upset you, but that upset is mild in comparison to the way some people are dealt with by the press. They are quite able, and routinely do, wreck marriages, break up families, destroy people's livelihoods and crush people psychologically, just for the sake of a sensational story to sell a few newspapers or generate a few page hits. If the most you have to worry about is that your boat name appeared in the headline of a article in NBW, you are a very lucky chap, actually.

[mayalld]

 

Not quite.

 

"Public domain" in the American English sense means "free of copyright". This usage has gained widespread worldwide popularity through the open source software movement.

 

"In the public domain" is a British English phrase used to mean that something is not a secret.

 

Information published on this forum can therefore be said to be in the public domain, though each posting is the copyright of its author.

 

For what it's worth, England & Wales copyright law does not have an explicit concept of "public domain", hence the existence of legal tools such as CC0 and PDDL to allow people to effectively renounce the copyright in their works. Collections of names and addresses can actually be copyrightable in the UK, but that's another question and an exceptionally complex one.

Actually, in the UK nothing is copyrightable, for the simple reason that the UK has no concept of registering copyright.

 

Copyright simply exists or not.

 

The concept of having to take a positive action to create copyright in a work is an American one, and is alien to our laws.

[ditchcrawler]

There is another side to the Volocky and the position he takes on lockings, both Hillmorton and Napton see a high percentage of boaters who have never operated a lock before so the volocky is often the person in charge as the boater doesn't have a clue. So its not a case of one set of rules suit all. If he was waiting instructions from some boaters no one would move.

I am not defending in any way what happened here, but it is something to think about when saying what a Volockys function is.

[Paul C]

There is another side to the Volocky and the position he takes on lockings, both Hillmorton and Napton see a high percentage of boaters who have never operated a lock before so the volocky is often the person in charge as the boater doesn't have a clue. So its not a case of one set of rules suit all. If he was waiting instructions from some boaters no one would move.

I am not defending in any way what happened here, but it is something to think about when saying what a Volockys function is.

 

So should it be muddied by whoever has the most experience? I know your example is one end of the scale - but think about a little less severe example, say a hirer a couple of days into their first holiday - who is in charge then?

 

I think the point remains, that the boater and crew are "in charge", the VLK is there to assist, not take charge. Yes they can train and help inexperienced crew, but this should really be the role of the hire firm and they should not pass it onto VLKs.

[Guest]

Surely all this could easily be sorted if the VLK kicks off with -

 

'Do you need any help guys - if so what with? and who's the skipper please?'

 

so they know who to relate to and how much help is required.

[Catrin]

Surely all this could easily be sorted if the VLK kicks off with -

 

'Do you need any help guys - if so what with? and who's the skipper please?'

 

so they know who to relate to and how much help is required.

I personally think that they should always ask if the boater wants/needs help. But are they only to take direction from the 'skipper'?

[Guest]

I personally think that they should always ask if the boater wants/needs help. But are they only to take direction from the 'skipper'?

 

Except in an emergency when anyone shouting 'drop the paddles' should be heeded.

 

At the end of the day if it's a false alarm it's only cost a few minutes of winding them back up.

Edited October 31, 2015 by MJG

[FadeToScarlet]

Surely all this could easily be sorted if the VLK kicks off with -

 

'Do you need any help guys - if so what with? and who's the skipper please?'

 

so they know who to relate to and how much help is required.

I don't think they should ask who the skipper is, because lots of people won't have one. When we're boating, we're equally in charge.

 

Very different to when I'm working on the tripboat, though, when I am a captain with all the legal responsibilities that go with it.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Actually, in the UK nothing is copyrightable, for the simple reason that the UK has no concept of registering copyright.

 

Copyright simply exists or not.

 

Yes, absolutely.

 

(If I were to get really pedantic about names and addresses I'd go into sui generis database rights at this point, but no-one deserves that...)

[Guest]

I don't think they should ask who the skipper is, because lots of people won't have one. When we're boating, we're equally in charge.

 

Very different to when I'm working on the tripboat, though, when I am a captain with all the legal responsibilities that go with it.

 

Interesting - normally when going through the locks it was normally Jan on the tiller so she would normally have shouted up 'it's me' - not of course that being on the tiller automatically means they are 'in charge of the' boat of course.

 

(We are getting into 'over thinking' this territory now.)

[mango]

I personally think that they should always ask if the boater wants/needs help. But are they only to take direction from the 'skipper'?

Is the skipper the one with a peaked cap?

[alan_fincher]

There is another side to the Volocky and the position he takes on lockings, both Hillmorton and Napton see a high percentage of boaters who have never operated a lock before so the volocky is often the person in charge as the boater doesn't have a clue. So its not a case of one set of rules suit all. If he was waiting instructions from some boaters no one would move.

I am not defending in any way what happened here, but it is something to think about when saying what a Volockys function is.

 

For balance though it is also important to remember that for years and years people of all experience have somehow managed to get through all these flights with no lock keeper (volunteer or otherwise) present. Maybe they have got in muddles, but we have largely survived.

 

I realise VLKs are constantly promoted by CRT as one of their great success stories, but unless the are operating powered river locks or some of the more complex staircases, they are not actually a requirement to people going through the locks involved.

 

I am not actually opposed to the use of volunteers if they are properly trained, and clear rules exist about responsibilities, but if we are going to have them they need to consistently be an improvement over what existed before,which, in the vast majority of cases, was no assistance at all to anybody.

 

The bizarre thing about somewhere like Hillmorton, (or several of the GU flights), is that they would often be more useful running water down into depleted pounds to keep working levels reasonable, but although a few seem to be empowered to do this, the vast majority it would appear are not. Each of our recent passages through Hillmorton have seen levels between the top two pairs of locks significantly low, and it would be helpful if volunteers were allowed and willing to sort this out.

[Little Else]

Just on a trivial note, when did the British stop being pissed off and become pissed?