Multifuel stove and BSS

[Starcoaster]

Can anyone point me towards the current BSS rules on multifuel stoves, in terms of how far they need to be from the walls etc, heatproofing behind/under them, and the changes to some elements that came in in 2013?

I have been to the BSS website and downloaded and read the document on all of the BSS elements and what they check on, but other than a bit about gaps and cracks on the stove, I can find no other info.

Thanks!

[Guest User]

Any use? edit to add: the second linky has some of the specifics you mentioned (and is linked to by the boat safety scheme themselves)

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe/solid-fuel-stoves/new-stove-new-chimney/

 

http://www.soliftec.com/Boat%20Stoves%201-page.pdf

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/stay-safe/solid-fuel-stoves/

 

LCx

Edited September 22, 2015 by Lady Cassandra

[bastion]

there is a very good download on northen fabrictions(boatman stoves) with are the details explained

[Starcoaster]

Thanks for that. From the info I can find, it seems to say that the stove itself should tell you (like, by means of the user manual, not psychically) but I thought there was a mandatory figure in the BSS itself for distance from walls etc.

[stagedamager]

100mm is in my head. That is what I work to anyway!

[ditchcrawler]

Thanks for that. From the info I can find, it seems to say that the stove itself should tell you (like, by means of the user manual, not psychically) but I thought there was a mandatory figure in the BSS itself for distance from walls etc.

I don't think so, there is in the RCD but lots of boats dont comply with that so I think its down to condition, adjacent items,ie. curtains. and secure fixing.

[Guest User]

Thanks for that. From the info I can find, it seems to say that the stove itself should tell you (like, by means of the user manual, not psychically) but I thought there was a mandatory figure in the BSS itself for distance from walls etc.

 

I guess there isn't because different make stoves will all be slightly different to each other, that and the physical location in each boat will be slightly different too, but it does say uninsulated flues to be at least 3x their diameter away from 'unprotected combustables', and as you've already noted they say the stove's instructions should have the separation distances marked. However, the Solid Fuel Technology Institute document also says "One way of making a good protection panel is to have: a 10mm air gap (supported on offcuts), then 25mm thick calcium silicate board (which can be tiled) then at least a 45mm gap to the stove body, all extending at least 200mm above the stove. (7) (By the way, this construction can be used as the hearth underneath a stove with legs, if topped by a 15mm cement-board panel.)".

 

And then there's the kicker .... "The numbers in (brackets) are sections in British Standard BS 8511:2010 Code of practice for the installation of solid fuel heating and cooking appliances in small craft where much more detailed information can be found. The code isn't compulsory, but will always be referred to if an accident occurs".

 

LCx

[Starcoaster]

I am really flummoxed. I really thought there was a set figure, and that I have read it referenced several times. And yet nothing I can turn up would seem to say that there is.. Someone told me as well that as of 2013, newly installed stoves had to have heatproof boarding behind the tiles too.

But unless I am missing something somewhere, I can find no reference to any of this.

[alan_fincher]

Someone told me as well that as of 2013, newly installed stoves had to have heatproof boarding behind the tiles too.

But unless I am missing something somewhere, I can find no reference to any of this.

 

Having seen what happens if the tiles are straight on to wood, there is no way in the world that I wouldn't now include a layer of heat resistant board, irrespective of what any regulations may, (or may not) say.

[Guest User]

I am really flummoxed. I really thought there was a set figure, and that I have read it referenced several times. And yet nothing I can turn up would seem to say that there is.. Someone told me as well that as of 2013, newly installed stoves had to have heatproof boarding behind the tiles too.

But unless I am missing something somewhere, I can find no reference to any of this.

 

Think this may have cross-posted with my previous post above - the best practice is to construct an air-gap and use heat resistant board and then tiles.

 

LCx

[Starcoaster]

 

Having seen what happens if the tiles are straight on to wood, there is no way in the world that I wouldn't now include a layer of heat resistant board, irrespective of what any regulations may, (or may not) say.

I have wood underneath and to the sides of my current stove, and it's been as it is for probably ten years or so-it is fine- I know this because of tiles that have now started falling off from age. I suspect that the distance from the stove makes the difference-back to square one!

Edited September 22, 2015 by Starcoaster

[MtB]

Can anyone point me towards the current BSS rules on multifuel stoves, in terms of how far they need to be from the walls etc, heatproofing behind/under them, and the changes to some elements that came in in 2013?

I have been to the BSS website and downloaded and read the document on all of the BSS elements and what they check on, but other than a bit about gaps and cracks on the stove, I can find no other info.

Thanks!

 

 

As the BSS inspection standards seem to have been taken off line, you'll have to buy the paper copy of the BSS handbook I suspect.

 

I have a copy a few years old and I'll have a look in it, but there was a revision recently so it won't be up to date.

 

I think its deeply unfair of BSS to have taken off line the details of what gets inspected and the requirements they must meet. This means boaters no longer have any means of making sure their boat complies before booking an inspection. Unless I just can't find it on their website!

[Starcoaster]

Are you sure, cos on the BSS site, I found a pdf of all of the relevant BSS checks etc., or at least what they are saying is such...

[nicknorman]

As the BSS inspection standards seem to have been taken off line, you'll have to buy the paper copy of the BSS handbook I suspect.

 

I have a copy a few years old and I'll have a look in it, but there was a revision recently so it won't be up to date.

 

I think its deeply unfair of BSS to have taken off line the details of what gets inspected and the requirements they must meet. This means boaters no longer have any means of making sure their boat complies before booking an inspection. Unless I just can't find it on their website!

Is this what you were looking for

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

 

Or did there used to be more?

[Guest User]

 

 

As the BSS inspection standards seem to have been taken off line, you'll have to buy the paper copy of the BSS handbook I suspect.

 

I have a copy a few years old and I'll have a look in it, but there was a revision recently so it won't be up to date.

 

I think its deeply unfair of BSS to have taken off line the details of what gets inspected and the requirements they must meet. This means boaters no longer have any means of making sure their boat complies before booking an inspection. Unless I just can't find it on their website!

 

 

Do you mean this http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

 

LCx

 

edit to add: cross-posted with Mr norman

Edited September 22, 2015 by Lady Cassandra

[MtB]

Is this what you were looking for

 

http://www.boatsafetyscheme.org/media/268789/ecp-private-boats-ed3_rev2_apr2015_public_final.pdf

 

Or did there used to be more?

 

That's it, thanks! Always hard to find.

 

The section on inspecting solid fuel stoves is pretty sketchy. See Section 8.10.5.

 

Any 'fail' citing non-compliance with BS<whatever> or anything else can be successfully appealed in my opinion. To pass the BSS, the stove must comply with 8.10.5. Nothing more. (Unless there is another section I missed on a brief scan through.)

[ditchcrawler]

 

That's it, thanks! Always hard to find.

 

The section on inspecting solid fuel stoves is pretty sketchy. See Section 8.10.5.

 

Any 'fail' citing non-compliance with BS<whatever> or anything else can be successfully appealed in my opinion. To pass the BSS, the stove must comply with 8.10.5. Nothing more. (Unless there is another section I missed on a brief scan through.)

Which I think is what I said. The installation requirements are for at RCD although you may find the company installing your fire insisting that they work to the latest BS standards and codes of practice to cover themselves if something went wrong.

[alan_fincher]

The section on inspecting solid fuel stoves is pretty sketchy. See Section 8.10.5.

 

Any 'fail' citing non-compliance with BS<whatever> or anything else can be successfully appealed in my opinion. To pass the BSS, the stove must comply with 8.10.5. Nothing more. (Unless there is another section I missed on a brief scan through.)

 

What you have found is about as I thought I remembered it, and, as you say, seems to be the total mandatory requirement . (So nothing about distances, hearths, surrounds, insulated flues or anything like that).

 

However elsewhere, such as on this BSS web page, it recommends (but does not mandate), use of the BS 8511 Code of Practice, and points onwards to this page.

[Guest User]

What you have found is about as I thought I remembered it, and, as you say, seems to be the total mandatory requirement . (So nothing about distances, hearths, surrounds, insulated flues or anything like that).

 

However elsewhere, such as on this BSS web page, it recommends (but does not mandate), use of the BS 8511 Code of Practice, and points onwards to this page.

Which is what I linked to back in post #2

 

LCx

[MtB]

 

However elsewhere, such as on this BSS web page, it recommends (but does not mandate), use of the BS 8511 Code of Practice, and points onwards to this page.

 

 

Exactly! I'm reasonably sure Coasty was trying to discover the minimum mandatory requirements for a stove to pass a BSS.

 

The things that are a good idea, advisable, great if you have unlimited funds, etc etc are optional extras once the mandatory requirements have been met.

[alan_fincher]

Which is what I linked to back in post #2

 

LCx

 

Absolutely, but the point I'm trying to make is that it does not constitute BSS rules, which is what Starry was after.

 

To me it seems a bit like the documents where they "recommend" an electric fridge, but where the BSS regulations actually equally allow a gas one.

[Starcoaster]

Thanks all. I think I may have been steered wrong by the boatyard that told me that fireboard under tiles was the rule for post-2013 installs, and I think I have previously assumed that there were additional rules on the distance of the fire from the walls.

[MtB]

Thanks all. I think I may have been steered wrong by the boatyard that told me that fireboard under tiles was the rule for post-2013 installs, and I think I have previously assumed that there were additional rules on the distance of the fire from the walls.

 

 

Very few boatyards seem able to tell the difference between good advice and mandatory requirements.

[rjasmith]

I am also clear that the BSS requirements have never gone into any detail of clearances, type of heatproof board, hearth material etc for solid fuel stoves.

 

Most Mfrs Stove installation instructions will be written around the Building Regs (Doc J) for houses so they often won't work in a boat!

 

Thats why I think it's a good plan to try to have a look at the BS 8511 Code of Practice itself where, provided your stove is built and tested to BS EN 13240 (most are these days - look for a plate on it somewhere), you can use all the "boat friendly" guidance in there.

 

BS 8511 is not a BSS doc and nor is it mandatory and it is also not related to the RCD. (Actually there are no solid fuel stove specific requirements in the RCD ISOs either, just a generalised fire protection document ISO 9094!).

 

I've recently discovered a really easy way for anyone to look at BS 8511 or indeed most other BS or ISO stds.

 

Just join Manchester City Library (anyone resident in UK can join for free), then use their website's link to the BS website (BSOL). Put "8511" into the Search box on the page that comes up and then click on the "Quick View" button to bring up a read only copy of the dreaded CoP. Actually I think you may not even need to join MCL - see if this link works.

 

The well known Soliftec sketch that others have linked to is a splendid precis of 8511 but the full doc gives a much greater variety of options for clearances depending on type of wall board and stove positioning. I've just counted eleven different clearance options!

 

The Soliftec sketch gives a fixed set of "rules" on a rather strange looking picture of a boat and is just one page. 8511 gives a whole lot more in 44 pages and I think their drawings look better!

 

Richard

[MtB]

Just join Manchester City Library (anyone resident in UK can join for free), then use their website's link to the BS website (BSOL). Put "8511" into the Search box on the page that comes up and then click on the "Quick View" button to bring up a read only copy of the dreaded CoP. Actually I think you may not even need to join MCL - see if this link works.

 

 

The link works for me but putting '8511' in the search box doesn't work. First, I need to click the 'Search British Standards' link on that page.

 

Then it demands I install Micro$oft 'Silverlight'. After doing that (and jumping a few more minor hoops) it gives me the Contents page and nothing more... grrrr...