Thames Ring - which way ?

[Darcy]

Hi, I know some folk have already mentioned this in my other Lifejackets thread, but rather than confuse two different issues, I thought I'd ask the question specifically here.

 

So we are heading off around the Thames Ring at the end of June and had intended to go clockwise. The main reasons for this was that I thought that it would be easier to get on and off the Thames that way and make mooring and other manouveres easier (although we've hired for years, never spent more than an hour or two on rivers). We also like the idea of doing the tunnels early in the trip in case of hold ups.

 

However, some folk in the lifejacket thread suggest that there is no problem in mooring if we go anti-clockwise. Obviously it would be faster going the other way, so how real is my concern ?

 

I've also noticed that the historic boat thing is happening in Braunston on the weekend we set off. So will it be possible to get through there on Saturday afternoon ? It would be lovely to see them all, but we won't want to stop for long. I'm guessing boats won't be leaving until the Sunday, so as long as we can get through, we should be able to keep ahead of the crowd going home.

 

 

[alan_fincher]

My preference is to do that ring anti-clockwise, because it means that the flow of the river is added to your normal speed through static water, and you make good times overall. Going clockwise you would need to subtract the rivers flow from your normal narrow boat speed which by my estimation means it takes considerably longer to do certain parts upstream rather than downstream.

 

The only downsides I can see, (assuming you are using Brentford as your way of joining to the Thames), is that you need to think about how you moor up on bits of the Thames where the flow is quite fast. Unless you are actually going to turn around each time you moor, to face into the flow, (not always possible with a long boat in a narrower part), then it is best to get your back in against the bank first, and secure that - then the flow will normally just then bring the front end in for you. If you attempt to land the boat "front end first", as you might on a non flowing canal, in a narrow fast flowing bit of the Thames, (the part above Osney lock probably being the worst), then there is a chance of the flow getting hold of the back end, and pinning you across the channel, (but please don't ask us how we know this! ).

Provided you do it at the prescribed time, and river conditions are normal, turning into Brentford to rejoin the canal system isn't a major issue.

In the past the parades of historic boats at the Braunston show have enforced delays of maybe 2 hours on normal canal traffic - not ideal if historic boat owners wish to live in harmony with those just wanting to pass through. More recently reduced numbers attending/parading, coupled with rather better organisation have reduced these delays. However, to be confident, I would allow that you could get delayed up to two hours if it is the morning or afternoon of either the Saturday or the Sunday. You probably will not be, but if you allow that you might, and are not, then it is a bonus.

[NickF]

We went clockwise because we didn't fancy going into Limehouse as coming out is easier. As you are joining (or leaving) the Thames at Brentford this is not an issue for you. Turning the boat to moor is really not tricky and anyway there may be so little current for it not to be necessary, just make sure the first rope you take ashore and tie is at the upstream end of the boat.

 

One more advantage of going down is that when going down the locks you can easily drop a fore and aft rope over a bollard on the lock side, when you are going up the bollards are somewhere above head height so it's not quite so simple. In Thames locks you need ropes front and back and then you have to switch off your engine.

 

So on balance I would say go anti-clockwise but it's not really a big deal.

 

Have a great trip.

Edited June 4, 2015 by NickF

[OldGoat]

I agree with Alan (well I probably would do - 'cos he's a sensible boater) and he's explained the challenges with more detail.

Mooring with the flow may not be so much of a challenge if there's loads of empty room - but if you're going to pick up one of the 'official' moorings, you're more likely not to find any excess space. That said the very nice moorings above Osney lock are always a complete pain in the butt when coming downstream as it's difficult to get the stern in with any style = not hitting other boats. Best to lasoo a bollard to check your progress first.

 

We've been on the Thames for 15 years and always (Osney excepted) moor facing upstream. No stress. No surprises. No fear in turning across the stream (other than the very first time), just let the boat be carried downstream of your target for (say) 2-3 boat lengths and then turn upstream on that side under power. that way you have control (and a bit of style).

 

We tend to moor out I the sticks away from the few official moorings and coming into the river edge with the flow AND getting the stern in PLUS deploying the crew and mooring pins and hammer is not an option - given that the acceptable (to us) site is rarely much longer than the boat.

 

If your view of other boats cruising is poor it's a good idea to give a turning round signal - four blasts on the horn plus one long for Right or two for Left, so that others can know what you're doing - even if they can see you. Very few boaters do that, but It shows that you're a seasoned boater....

 

Perhaps a more cogent reason for going downhill is that (assuming you're coming on via Duke's Cut) the first lock is a 'proper lock' with balance beams, just wider than you're used to. After that they're all 'electric'. Going downhill in locks as NickF has just said is much easier as dropping a line onto a bollard is easier than throwing it up AND the exiting water doesn't throw you around.

 

If you're not aware you must use lines / ropes for and aft in a Thames lock and they must be long enough - ours are 8m long (IIRC). It's easier to lasso a bollard if you coil the line 'with the lay of the rope' and throw that (holding the free end) towards the bollard. Most Thames boaters (!) just chuck a bundle of rope at the bollard and wonder why it just falls into the water.

[WJM]

I cant think of anywhere where you cant turn a narrowboat around on the Thames below Oxford.

 

And I don't understand the reluctance to spin the boat around each day so that it faces into the stream while moored - it is a simple manoeuvre, far easier than turning a boat around on a static canal.

[alan_fincher]

I cant think of anywhere where you cant turn a narrowboat around on the Thames below Oxford.

 

And I don't understand the reluctance to spin the boat around each day so that it faces into the stream while moored - it is a simple manoeuvre, far easier than turning a boat around on a static canal.

 

You cannot turn even a 50 foot boat in the channel immediately above Osney lock, where there are good visitor moorings.

 

These moorings are "interesting", because unlike at most other locks, the inlet weir around the lock is only just above it, so the full flow of the river is passing through a channel that is maybe no more than 48 feet wide, making it much more rapid than most other places where there are formal moorings.

 

If you are coming downstream from Oxford with a narrow boat of any significant length, then you have to moor with your back end into the flow. Unless you get off pretty smartly with a rear end line, and get it secured, your stern is swept across to the other side, and it is then very hard to get it back to the bank you want it to be on.

 

You tend to only make this mistake once, as you look a complete prat in front of an inevitably large audience(!) Great moorings to be tied up, but you have to think how to achieve it safely with no drama.

 

Unfortunately if you have just joined the Thames at Isis lock, and successfully navigated the low and infamous Osney bridge with no incidents, you do not end to be thinking too hard that you are actually in a fast flowing channel quite unlike just about every other lock you will subsequently come to.

[GUMPY]

You can turn 60ft with ease between Osney lock and the bridge in the middle of the moorings here

http://goo.gl/maps/U2Aths

I have done this when I CBA to take the wheelhouse down for the bridge

 

however if there is a bit of flow on it becomes more difficult.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Loddon

[Darcy]

For clarity, we'll be in a 65ft boat.

 

My reluctance to spin the boat probably boils down to childhood experiences of canoing and strictures to never get parallel to the waves. When turning a boat in a canal, if I or hubby muck up, we can just stop and think again. We might draw gales of laughter from the banks, but we remain in control. Rivers don't wait for you to get it right !

 

I did know that you had to use ropes in the locks, but I guess I had assumed that they had those bar things running down them like on the Severn. Multiple trips have taught me that throwing ropes is not one of my strengths, I've mastered plenty of techniques to avoid throwing them on the canals. Avoiding have to throw both accurately and upwards might just be the deciding factor................. so thanks for pointing that one out.

[lydfordcastle]

Definitely anti-clockwise ; you'll use far less fuel than going round clockwise

[john6767]

For clarity, we'll be in a 65ft boat.

 

My reluctance to spin the boat probably boils down to childhood experiences of canoing and strictures to never get parallel to the waves. When turning a boat in a canal, if I or hubby muck up, we can just stop and think again. We might draw gales of laughter from the banks, but we remain in control. Rivers don't wait for you to get it right !

 

I did know that you had to use ropes in the locks, but I guess I had assumed that they had those bar things running down them like on the Severn. Multiple trips have taught me that throwing ropes is not one of my strengths, I've mastered plenty of techniques to avoid throwing them on the canals. Avoiding have to throw both accurately and upwards might just be the deciding factor................. so thanks for pointing that one out.

 

I my limited experience I would say go anti-clock, going down stream is faster and it is easier at the locks to throw a rope over a bollard when going downstream. Also the locks I think empty faster then they fill, unless you are on your own and the lock keeper give you express service when going up, if you are in the lock with plastic they only fill the locks slowly, and if it self service there is no choice but to fill slowly. It think most times I did turn to face upstream when mooing, the one exception that I can think of was bellow Abingdon lock, but there was no issue with summer flows in stopping and mooring safely.

[David Mack]

I've also noticed that the historic boat thing is happening in Braunston on the weekend we set off. So will it be possible to get through there on Saturday afternoon ? It would be lovely to see them all, but we won't want to stop for long. I'm guessing boats won't be leaving until the Sunday, so as long as we can get through, we should be able to keep ahead of the crowd going home.

If you are setting off from Napton on the Saturday, and presumably leaving the hire base early afternoon it will be mid-late afternoon by the time you get to Braunston, and you may well encounter the afternoon parade. The easiest thing to do is to tie up just before Braunston junction, and walk up onto the towpath bridge at the junction and watch the historic boats making a complete mess finely executed manoeuvre as they perform a three point turn around the island at the junction. When the last boat has passed you can join the back of the parade heading back towards the marina, or you can wait another hour or so, by which time all the boats will be back on their moorings and you can boat straight through.

 

If you don't want to wait, then indicate to one of the marshals that you want to come through, and they will hold up the parading boats to allow you through the junction, and you will then find yourself in the middle of the parade, proceeding very slowly towards the marina.

 

If you join the parade, or catch up with the back of it, you will find that when you get to the marina entrance you will be directed into the marina, where you have to pass through the two mooring basins, then back out onto the main line under the Ladder Bridge where you take a sharp right turn towards the bottom of the locks (with the parade participants turning left back towards their moorings). And all under the watchful gaze of the crowd. So you might prefer to wait until its all calmed down.

 

If you aren't familiar with Braunston, the layout at the junction and the marina is pretty clear on Google Maps.

 

Either way, you might want to tie up for the Saturday night between the marina and the bottom lock - just ask and you can breast up against any boats moored there if there is no free bank space. You can then walk back to see the boats, have a drink in the beer tent (although if things are the same as in previous years the live music will be earsplittingly loud), or visit one of Braunston's pubs.

 

Most of the historic boats will be in Braunston until at least the Sunday afternoon, so if you pass through on the Saturday afternoon/evening, you will have a good start on those departing.

 

 

[b0atman]

So Thames locks single handed what's procedure ?

[Scholar Gypsy]

For clarity, we'll be in a 65ft boat.

 

My reluctance to spin the boat probably boils down to childhood experiences of canoing and strictures to never get parallel to the waves. When turning a boat in a canal, if I or hubby muck up, we can just stop and think again. We might draw gales of laughter from the banks, but we remain in control. Rivers don't wait for you to get it right !

 

I did know that you had to use ropes in the locks, but I guess I had assumed that they had those bar things running down them like on the Severn. Multiple trips have taught me that throwing ropes is not one of my strengths, I've mastered plenty of techniques to avoid throwing them on the canals. Avoiding have to throw both accurately and upwards might just be the deciding factor................. so thanks for pointing that one out.

 

I can't think of any Thames locks that have risers - they do have chains but they are for people who fall in and Jerome K Jerome type skiffs.

 

 

So Thames locks single handed what's procedure ?

 

When going uphill, I come in slowly, drop the stern line with a large loop in the end over a bollard (doable as I stand on the roof if necessary), or throw it onto the lockside. Then I stop the boat and engine, and climb up the steps (normally two sets on each side, and sometimes even where you need them) with the front rope (I have a 50 foot light line as an extension to run back to the steerer's position). Then I move the stern line back a bit and tie it off on a bollard say ten feet behind the boat, and then run the bow line forward to a bollard, and tighten it gradually as the lock fills. Care needed on locks that fill through the bottom (eg Sandford, Bell Weir, Hambleden I think?) where the flow can pull the boat sideways away from the wall quite strongly - quite entertaining in wider locks with a skiff in the middle of a narrowboat sandwich.

 

Going downhill, if fairly shallow I would use just the centre line. In deeper locks run the bow line forward 20 feet and tie it off. Then take the stern line to a bollard and let it out gradually as the boat falls (and moves forwards and squashes the tupperware in front of you). Alternatively if you want to stay on the boat as it drops you can run both lines back to the boat, but you then need 40-50 foot bow line to have enough to get back to the T stud. In theory with long lines you can stand beside the middle of the boat and let both bow and stern lines out (so not squashing the Tupperware), but I don't really like that very much.

 

In general the lockkeepers are very helpful if you need assistance with getting ropes around a bollard, but they obviously need to control the sluices when the lock is emptying or filling, and so can't hold one of your ropes for you.

[OldGoat]

So Thames locks single handed what's procedure ?

 

 

Simple - RTFM. There's an idiot guide on all the 'electric' locks on the side of the pedestal (control gear) and the instructions are different (slightly) for the head (top) pedestal than the tail (bottom).

There are two types of equipment - round headed pedestals (these are in a majority between Oxford and Windsor) and the following are notes for operating the round headed variety:-

 

A very important point is that raising and lowering the sluices (paddles) is automatic. If you hold the raise sluices button - rather than waiting (say) 10 seconds until you hear a click from the valve in the cabinet, then releasing - the whole blurry system will think it's a major catastrophe and will shut down in order to save the planet (I joke not) and requires a lock keeper or flying patrol - who take hours to get there. Until that happens you're not going anywhere...

 

Going downhill, this is what you do:-

 

• If the lock is empty and the gates shut (they should be - but the lazy locals often leave them open) so shut them
• Press and hold (until you hear the click or max 10 seconds) the 'lower sluices' button. You can see the double arms on the gates dropping. Walk back to the head cabinet.
• When you get there, the equipment will have signalled that the bottom gates are closed and sluices are down - A green light near the sluices button should be green... Press the 'raise sluices' button ONCE and ONCE only. The system will raise them automatically in three stages and progress will / may appear to be pedestrian. Do not press the button again. It will ignore you and / or lockout the system..
• When you think the lock is full - wait a mo: and see of there's no turbulence of water in the lock, then press and hold the open gates button.
• Best to get the boat in with the gates fully open, especially as no manual effort is required from you.
• Shut the gates by pressing and holding the shut gates button until the crash into place.
• Ensure that you have lines around bollards fore and aft but DO NOT tie them off. downhill the stern rope is slightly more important - as there should be somebody aboard to manage it... The bow tends to wander - so the head rope can be pulled in by someone on shore, to save faffing about with the engine so that the boat can get out..
• Walk nonchalantly down to the tail gate and when the boat is reasonably secured... press the raise sluices button once only etc.
• When the lock seems empty press and hold the open gates button
• open the gates
• get the boat out
• shut the gates behind you BUT leave the sluices UP - else the next poor sod may hae to go through the whole procedure of filling and emptying the lock to reset the system. The former is what EA want it's their gear, they make the rules, nobody has ever given me an understandable reason as to why, but that's life, innit (there is some logic, but life's too short...)

It looks horrendously complicated, but not too different from what you would do yourself on the canal system - except there's some idiot electrical system designed by a government health and safety person to make sue you don't flood Windsor Castle.

 

It's supper time - so I'm not going to proof read the above again - feel free to point out my verbal inadequacies..

 

After all getting folks to cruise the Thames in comfort is my real aim

 

Forgot to add:

The 'square' top rectangular cabinets on all the larger locks (and some others) are slightly different in that to raise the sluices you have to press and hold the button until you hear the pump really straining, then release. Wait '2 minutes' and repeat for the next two stages. These units don't go to lockout - it just ignores you.....

Edited June 5, 2015 by OldGoat

[alan_fincher]

You can turn 60ft with ease between Osney lock and the bridge in the middle of the moorings here

http://goo.gl/maps/U2Aths

I have done this when I CBA to take the wheelhouse down for the bridge

 

however if there is a bit of flow on it becomes more difficult.

That link gives

 

404: Page not found – the page http://goo.gl/maps/U2Aths does not exist.

 

My point was not that there is nowhere along the length that you can turn, but tat there are certainly loing lengths there where the channel is not even 50 feet wide.

 

This I think is a reasonable challenge to the statement.....

 

I cant think of anywhere where you cant turn a narrowboat around on the Thames below Oxford.

There may well be somewhere near you can turn, but there are definitely places where you can't unless you travel some distance further on.

[GUMPY]

Try this

 

http://goo.gl/maps/IvVNG

Normally you wouldnt expect to be able to turn in a lock cut but that is one you can.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Loddon

[OldGoat]

Ah but, yes, but - not a 65 footer and probably not if there's anyone moored directly opposite, AND provided that there's not an expensive looking wooden boat moored sticking out of Osney Mill's leat island.

Done it in a 60 footer with not much stream running but it was slightly hairy (I don't like to frighten other boaters or crash into great white boats...)

 

Easier to wind at the entrance to Sheepwash channel or go down Osney Lock and wind by the maintenance yard, neither of which take much time or effort...

Edited June 4, 2015 by OldGoat

[alan_fincher]

Normally you wouldnt expect to be able to turn in a lock cut but that is one you can.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, (I have not done the Thames that much), but the main difference at Osney to most others seems to be that the others usually have a significant weir well before the lock, so that by the time you are as close to the lock as you are on those Osney moorings, there is little or no flow, because the flowing water has largely been diverted before that point.

 

It always seemed to me that at Osney the issue is you get caught out because most (or possibly all?) of the flow of the river is passing through a channel not even 50 feet wide at some points. Hence the flow is a lot faster than other places you might wish to stop at the bank. Or does some get taken around the lock long before you get that far, as at other locks?

[Scholar Gypsy]

 

Correct me if I am wrong, (I have not done the Thames that much), but the main difference at Osney to most others seems to be that the others usually have a significant weir well before the lock, so that by the time you are as close to the lock as you are on those Osney moorings, there is little or no flow, because the flowing water has largely been diverted before that point.

 

It always seemed to me that at Osney the issue is you get caught out because most (or possibly all?) of the flow of the river is passing through a channel not even 50 feet wide at some points. Hence the flow is a lot faster than other places you might wish to stop at the bank. Or does some get taken around the lock long before you get that far, as at other locks?

 

There is a small but significant weir very close to the lock, which is what causes a number of the issues noted above.

 

However some of the total flow in the river flows through other channels eg Castle Mill to the east which you cross just below Isis Lock, and Seacourt/Hinksey stream to the West (which leaves the main channel above Kings lock and rejoins below Iffley). There is a plan to build a new flood relief channel to the west of Oxford which would take rather more of the water away from the main channel. I've not been able to find what percentage of the total flow goes under Osney bridge, but that must be a known fact.

[alan_fincher]

 

There is a small but significant weir very close to the lock, which is what causes a number of the issues noted above.

 

However some of the total flow in the river flows through other channels eg Castle Mill to the east which you cross just below Isis Lock, and Seacourt/Hinksey stream to the West (which leaves the main channel above Kings lock and rejoins below Iffley). There is a plan to build a new flood relief channel to the west of Oxford which would take rather more of the water away from the main channel. I've not been able to find what percentage of the total flow goes under Osney bridge, but that must be a known fact.

Thanks - I now feel educated!

 

I did think it probably was not the whole Thames flowing through there, but with several of you tugging like mad on a long rope to try and retrieve a boat jammed between the bank and the factory opposite, it starts to feel like it!

 

Anyway I wish we had been forewarned, (plenty of warning about the low bridge, but none about the difficulties mooring!), so it seems worth bringing to the attention of other first timers.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Thanks - I now feel educated!

 

I did think it probably was not the whole Thames flowing through there, but with several of you tugging like mad on a long rope to try and retrieve a boat jammed between the bank and the factory opposite, it starts to feel like it!

 

Anyway I wish we had been forewarned, (plenty of warning about the low bridge, but none about the difficulties mooring!), so it seems worth bringing to the attention of other first timers.

 

Absolutely. Last time I went to have a look when it was on red boards - July 2012 - the current was about 5 mph and rather close to the top of the bank.

[Tony Brooks]

About three or so years ago we had a wide beam stuck on our stern with his stern hard against the house on the other bank - he out his front line on first - not the thing to do with any significant flow! Took almost all the boaters on the moorings and a shouting householder prodding with a broom to pull his boat onto the bank. I had got in easily a short while before by kicking the stern in, applying full astern, and then dropping a stern line over the bollard. The river had just gone off red boards. This is simply to back up the advice the OP has already been given.

 

Certainly this year I would advise getting the Oxford canal done ASAP. Until I hear differently I fear the summit pound (and the odd lower one) may run out of water. Certainly interesting for deep draft boats a week or so ago.

[Darcy]

Again, thanks to everyone. Lots of really helpful stuff in here. We had a good think about all the issues last night and on balance we will switch to anticlockwise. What really clinched it (apart from my hatred of throwing ropes) was putting the anticlockwise version into canal planner. It predicts that the journey will be 12 hours faster anticlockwise than clockwise.

 

I remember reading that they'd added river flow into their calculations, but I've not really used it on rivers since then.

 

I'd cavalierly said that we didn't mind taking a bit longer, but, I hadn't calculated just how much longer. 12 hours will give us the option to take a detour somewhere (suggestions welcome), stop to visit the natural history museum at Tring (maybe go up the Wendover Arm to get there ?) or just stop a bit earlier in the evenings on the Thames.

 

It has an additional benefit for us, in that we have a partial crew change on the middle Sunday. Going clockwise, this would have been near Reading. Going anticlockwise we'll be near the M25 - Rickmansworth or a bit further on, which will make it easier to swap cars. (Week 2 party comes to boat, collects Week 1 driver, drives to boatyard (Napton), switches to Week 1 car. Week 1 driver then returns to boat, collects their party and luggage and deposits Week 2 driver).

 

Does leave us with an additional issue though. Does anyone know of a launderette close to the bottom of the Grand Union ? Had been planning on using one at Pangbourne on the Thames.

[OldGoat]

........

I'd cavalierly said that we didn't mind taking a bit longer, but, I hadn't calculated just how much longer. 12 hours will give us the option to take a detour somewhere (suggestions welcome), stop to visit the natural history museum at Tring (maybe go up the Wendover Arm to get there ?) or just stop a bit earlier in the evenings on the Thames.

 

.....

 

Does leave us with an additional issue though. Does anyone know of a launderette close to the bottom of the Grand Union ? Had been planning on using one at Pangbourne on the Thames.

......

 

None may not be appropriate - but here goes anyway:-

 

If your first stop on the River is around Oxford then -

consider going upstream to the next lock (Eynsham), about 3/4 hour from King's lock. It's a proper lock and has an excellent pumpout that is sufficient to deal with two very full tanks. I flush mine by filling a bucket full of water from the river via a side hatch and dropping the water down the loo from chest height. Blasts any stuff off the bottom. Above the lock there's a water point. Thames waterpoints come through a 1" hydrant hose and mostly are quite high pressure. All the hoses are long so you don't need to use yours.

The next lock up - Pinkhill - 1/2 hour is very pretty with official moorings above and you can walk around the large Farmoor reservoirs - not quite as boring as you might imagine. A bit further on 1/2hour (?) again is Bablock Hythe with excellent moorings outside. Can't vouch for the food... That whole section is very pretty, rural and relatively quiet (the A40 is not far away). Plenty of field moorings.

 

If that doesn't appeal the consider spending at least half a day in Oxford. The Ashmolean, mathematical and natural history museums are conventional but different BUT the Pitt Rivers is unique - a 19th century of explorer's amazing 'stuff'.

Good Chinese food in Hythe Bridge Street and excellent lunch prices. Must be good 'cos always full of Chinese folk. 3 course lunch blowout for £7.50...

Walk round Jerico and some colleges (free) gives you an atmosphere if you're a Morse fan

Just avoid the main shopping street.

 

If the Thames is more to you than a quick way to get from one canal to another then get a copy of Chris Cove-Smith's "The River Thames Book £9.99 from Amazon and others

[WJM]

The Wendover Arm is well worth a visit - it is not very long but it is a very interesting cruise