VHF help on tidal section of the Thames.

[vhfonthames]

Hello fellow Narrowboaters,

I've just completed my RYA Short Range VHF certificate and also have bought a handheld Standard Horizon HX851E - this has GPS navigation on it as well.

Also like you I own a 57 foot narrowboat for the last 8 years and have done the none tidal Thames and been to lots of other places.

So I'm a fairly experienced boater - but you can judge that - I'm still an amateur after all.

However, now that I have the VHF license - I want to do the tidal Thames bit as soon as possible.

I'm not planning to use my own boat until next year - but would like the opportunity to go with someone else - preferably someone that has already done this stretch before.

I basically want to get some experience - but I'm happy to go with anyone that is travelling just from Teddington to Brentford - to help them also with having VHF capability through me.

It is also much nicer to have someone to help - even if it is just with tying up the boat when you arrive at Brentford - of Limehouse for that matter.

So - hopefully I can help someone who wants me help too.

I've read lots of information on doing the tidal Thames - but now want the experience.

As I believe this basically should not take more than 3 to 3.5 hours for the complete stretch.

Please mail me on - vhfonthames@gmail.com if you know of anyone that if happy to do this.

Thanks - hope to hear from you.

[Tony Brooks]

I plan to travel from Teddington to Limehouse on 12th July if that is any good. I do not need your VHF but you will need to provide your own life jacket. As the tides mean we will be travelling in the afternoon we can expect the final stages to be "interesting" with the trip boats. I hope to be behind the rubbish barge trains though. This will be subject to the weather, mainly the wind strength & direction.

 

You do not need VHF on a narrowboat between Teddington and Brentford and I doubt it would take an hour. Your times seem more like those from Teddington to Limehouse.

 

To others - yes I know this is generally thought of as the more difficult direction and I can almost guarantee a very untidy and maybe noisy entrance onto the Limehouse lock landing pontoons.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

(Um err I VERY NEARLY hit the wall on my way into limehouse, eek ! )

[Tony Brooks]

(Um err I VERY NEARLY hit the wall on my way into limehouse, eek ! )

 

Yes, I actually did hit it on the way in last time - and I had turned upstream. Very "interesting" eddy/rip current thereabouts. Having bounced into West Stockwith entrance last summer I am sure to try it again this time at Limehouse.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Ha ha yes I done exactly the same he he, and let's be honest it's hands on experiences like we are describing that is worth a lot to others, so hopefully the can make a better job of it than we did !.

[Neil TNC]

No one can have hit the upstream wall as bad as brand new boat we traveled down with a good few years ago. New bow fender cut clean in half, a good few bricks dislodged and rather a lot of broken crockery / ornaments. Wife hysterical, bloke in charge panic stricken. My mate had to jump aboard and rescue the situation.

The key is to take it rather gently.

[NilesMI]

I would also like to do the trip, upstream from Limehouse to Teddington this summer. 54' narrowboat.

 

I think I have prepared. I have got a VHF license and a hand portable set. As for boating, I have done the tidal Trent, downstream to Keadby (which was fun - crockery and glassware intact) and the Douglas/Ribble crossing, to and fro.

 

I am really looking for helpful hints, mainly what to expect regarding other traffic and suggestions as to the best tide times to plan for.

 

I was advised to contact St Pancras Cruising Club for advice, which I have, by email, but I didn't get a response. Their Thames Cruising Guide is quite useful, but any other advice would be welcome.

[vhfonthames]

I plan to travel from Teddington to Limehouse on 12th July if that is any good. I do not need your VHF but you will need to provide your own life jacket. As the tides mean we will be travelling in the afternoon we can expect the final stages to be "interesting" with the trip boats. I hope to be behind the rubbish barge trains though. This will be subject to the weather, mainly the wind strength & direction.

 

You do not need VHF on a narrowboat between Teddington and Brentford and I doubt it would take an hour. Your times seem more like those from Teddington to Limehouse.

 

To others - yes I know this is generally thought of as the more difficult direction and I can almost guarantee a very untidy and maybe noisy entrance onto the Limehouse lock landing pontoons.

 

Hi Tony Brooks - yes, if your OK with it - I can do 12th July if that is OK with you - I'm very happy for any opportunity to get experience.

It hopefully will help you too - and like I said, I want to be a useful crew member to you.

 

 

I would also like to do the trip, upstream from Limehouse to Teddington this summer. 54' narrowboat.

 

I think I have prepared. I have got a VHF license and a hand portable set. As for boating, I have done the tidal Trent, downstream to Keadby (which was fun - crockery and glassware intact) and the Douglas/Ribble crossing, to and fro.

 

I am really looking for helpful hints, mainly what to expect regarding other traffic and suggestions as to the best tide times to plan for.

 

I was advised to contact St Pancras Cruising Club for advice, which I have, by email, but I didn't get a response. Their Thames Cruising Guide is quite useful, but any other advice would be welcome.

 

NileMI - if you think you can add another useful crew member to your boat - whilst doing this - then please contact me on vhfonthames@gmail.com and I will try and meet up and hopefully be of any help.

 

Thanks for all the replies - and pass on the word that I'm happy to be of any help.

[Tony Brooks]

I would also like to do the trip, upstream from Limehouse to Teddington this summer. 54' narrowboat.

 

I think I have prepared. I have got a VHF license and a hand portable set. As for boating, I have done the tidal Trent, downstream to Keadby (which was fun - crockery and glassware intact) and the Douglas/Ribble crossing, to and fro.

 

I am really looking for helpful hints, mainly what to expect regarding other traffic and suggestions as to the best tide times to plan for.

 

I was advised to contact St Pancras Cruising Club for advice, which I have, by email, but I didn't get a response. Their Thames Cruising Guide is quite useful, but any other advice would be welcome.

 

 

From preference I would go as early in the day as possible so you minimise the amount of water buses that are about. However the opening times for Limehouse lock rather scuppers that. Last time I went downstream I left Teddington at about 05.30 and was through before many trip boats woke up.

 

I am probably sticking my neck out here but as long as you can read the water, know about lining up on bridges in plenty of time, and expect a minimum of a 9" fall through the bridge arch and keep as good lookout ahead and astern I do not think it is any more difficult than the tidal Trent. You do need to understand the lights and signs used on bridges, the last thing you want is to meet a tug and a train of barges in a bridge hole but you will both be going with the tide so it is unlikely to happen.

 

You must consider the wash from the Clippers and other boats but you will be clear of the majority of them within maybe 3/4 of an hour of leaving Limehouse. Likewise you need to consider how likely you boat is to take on significant water. I would say "Lister" type air vents on the outside of the hull are a no-no. Narrowboats tend to go through waves rather than ride them but it will still pitch and it will roll like a pig if you catch a wash side on.

 

 

Hi Tony Brooks - yes, if your OK with it - I can do 12th July if that is OK with you - I'm very happy for any opportunity to get experience.

It hopefully will help you too - and like I said, I want to be a useful crew member to you.

 

 

In that case PM or email me around the 10th of July so we can make arrangements and to remind me. I have my crew of daughter and daughter in law so they get first dibs of steering on the safer stretches. I will no let anyone else steer once we get to frequent bridges and river traffic. To be honest there is not much to do apart from keeping a good watch for other boats and washes. You would mainly be coming so you can see what its is all about.

[Mike Todd]

 

Yes, I actually did hit it on the way in last time - and I had turned upstream. Very "interesting" eddy/rip current thereabouts. Having bounced into West Stockwith entrance last summer I am sure to try it again this time at Limehouse.

So did we earlier this spring. According to the lockies, very few non-local boaters do not hit that wall. and I thought I was doing by the book . . .

[NilesMI]

 

 

From preference I would go as early in the day as possible so you minimise the amount of water buses that are about. However the opening times for Limehouse lock rather scuppers that. Last time I went downstream I left Teddington at about 05.30 and was through before many trip boats woke up.

 

I am probably sticking my neck out here but as long as you can read the water, know about lining up on bridges in plenty of time, and expect a minimum of a 9" fall through the bridge arch and keep as good lookout ahead and astern I do not think it is any more difficult than the tidal Trent. You do need to understand the lights and signs used on bridges, the last thing you want is to meet a tug and a train of barges in a bridge hole but you will both be going with the tide so it is unlikely to happen.

 

You must consider the wash from the Clippers and other boats but you will be clear of the majority of them within maybe 3/4 of an hour of leaving Limehouse. Likewise you need to consider how likely you boat is to take on significant water. I would say "Lister" type air vents on the outside of the hull are a no-no. Narrowboats tend to go through waves rather than ride them but it will still pitch and it will roll like a pig if you catch a wash side on.

 

Thank you Tony, that's quite reassuring. The fall at bridge openings will be easier to deal with, now I know to expect it. Limehouse doesn't open until 8am, so with no way of going early enough to be out of the traffic, I am thinking of a tide time which would have me out of Limhouse around 11am.

 

Just one query; how does the other river traffic behave towards narroboats? Do the trip boats just rush up behind you or could you expect a radio call if they think you haven't seen them?

[GUMPY]

Before they put the stupid useless pontoons in, it was easy to get into Limehouse without hitting the upstream wall you just needed to approach from downstream and roll the boat round the pier head, literally touching the wood.

Used to make a habit of getting there first, mooring up and watching others not do it the easy way.

[adam1uk]

Just one query; how does the other river traffic behave towards narroboats? Do the trip boats just rush up behind you or could you expect a radio call if they think you haven't seen them?

 

They'll expect you to be looking out for them, including behind, but they'll be pretty considerate. It's very helpful to know the sound signals, so you have an idea what they're about to do. The worst ones are the ribs, whose who purpose is to throw their passengers around and get them wet. We last did the tidal Thames (Limshouse to Teddington) on a Sunday afternoon, and it was much busier than during the week, and consequently much choppier.

 

Download the guide to the Thames, which has diagrams of the bridges, with info on which arch to go through. I have it laminated, and have someone keeping an eye on which bridge is coming up, and which arch we should be aiming for.

[NilesMI]

Download the guide to the Thames, which has diagrams of the bridges, with info on which arch to go through. I have it laminated, and have someone keeping an eye on which bridge is coming up, and which arch we should be aiming for.

 

Thanks.

 

I have already downloaded and read the guide, but I'm going to go take a day out and have a look at the bridges from riverside beforehand. Just to match the theory to the practice. I'll probably take my portable VHF with me too and lsiten in, so I know what to expect there, too. (I know it's illegal to broadcast if not on or with my boat)

 

I will also have a good and attentive crew. A lumpy water sailor. He's my second set of eyes. A laminated guide is an excellent idea.

[vhfonthames]

 

In that case PM or email me around the 10th of July so we can make arrangements and to remind me. I have my crew of daughter and daughter in law so they get first dibs of steering on the safer stretches. I will no let anyone else steer once we get to frequent bridges and river traffic. To be honest there is not much to do apart from keeping a good watch for other boats and washes. You would mainly be coming so you can see what its is all about.

 

Hi Tony, your the Skipper - I'm only crew and just the ride for the experience would be fantastic. The last thing I want to be is an extra hazard to you.

[Scholar Gypsy]

NilesMI, on 15 May 2015 - 7:47 PM, said:

Just one query; how does the other river traffic behave towards narroboats? Do the trip boats just rush up behind you or could you expect a radio call if they think you haven't seen them?

 

They'll expect you to be looking out for them, including behind, but they'll be pretty considerate. It's very helpful to know the sound signals, so you have an idea what they're about to do. The worst ones are the ribs, whose who purpose is to throw their passengers around and get them wet. We last did the tidal Thames (Limshouse to Teddington) on a Sunday afternoon, and it was much busier than during the week, and consequently much choppier.

 

Download the guide to the Thames, which has diagrams of the bridges, with info on which arch to go through. I have it laminated, and have someone keeping an eye on which bridge is coming up, and which arch we should be aiming for.

 

A couple of thoughts.

 

1) If other craft don't like what you are doing (especially the tugs & barges who have limited maneuverability) they may give you five blasts on the hooter. So keeping a lookout is really important (especially behind you, which is not a commonly exercised muscle).

 

2) Don't try and manoeuvre around the RIBs, just stick to a steady course and they will then avoid you.

 

3) The other thing I would add is that it is a good idea to know where the piers are, and on which side, and what that might mean for boat movements.

 

So for example

• if you are going upstream at Tower Bridge you may come across a clipper coming towards you going from London Bridge pier (on the left/south) to Tower pier (on the right/north), so they often cut across your bows and pass you stbd to stbd ("green to green" on the VHF). They are unlikely to make any sound signals or call you on the VHF.
  
• Outward bound boats from Tower pier quite often use No 1 arch.
  
• Keep a reasonable way out from the bank at Embankment, & hold a steady course, to allow incoming boats to overtake you on the right to get to the pier - see photo below.

4) By the way, although core hours at Limehouse are 0800-1800 in the summer, they do accept out of hours bookings 0500-0800 and 1800-2200 (here).

 

Edited May 17, 2015 by Scholar Gypsy

[blackrose]

These are the guides I used:

 

https://www.waterways.org.uk/waterways/canals_rivers/river_thames_tidal/thames_tideway_guide_upstream

 

https://www.waterways.org.uk/waterways/canals_rivers/river_thames_tidal/thames_tideway_guide_2_downstream

 

They give you all the information you need including which bridge spans to take. I have someone at the helm with me reading the relevant information at the approach to each bridge. It reduces the decision-making so I can concentrate on other traffic and steering. I get the person with the guide to keep a lookout behind as well.

 

The downstream voyage is the most exciting. I've done it a few times and always managed to turn into Limehouse without hitting anything, but the adrenalin is always flowing!

 

This was going the other way on a glorious day. Even the river police smiled and waved to us outside the Houses of Parliament.

 

Edited May 17, 2015 by blackrose

[Scholar Gypsy]

These are the guides I used:

 

 

 

This was going the other way on a glorious day. Even the river police smiled and waved to us outside the Houses of Parliament.

 

 

 

Was that because - as you claimed in another post of that photo - you weren't wearing any clothes?

[blackrose]

 

Was that because - as you claimed in another post of that photo - you weren't wearing any clothes?

 

That was a joke, not a claim...

[vhfonthames]

Hi all, I've got my first mission end of next week - where I'm useful because the owner has done the Thames several times and is experienced - but does not have the VHF qualifications.

So we will both help each other - which is great.

I've printed out the upstream version and will laminate it so I can use it on the boat.

All your comments and advice is noted and appreciated - and hopefully will help a lot of other fellow narrowboaters.

 

I also have a Gopro Hero 4 camera that I will use at the front of the boat - with owners permission of course - and then I will report back here to what the experience was and also put video somewhere for all to watch and get a rough idea on how it is on the Thames.

 

The more experience I get - the more I will update you on this - and eventually there should be enough of everything on tidal Thames for anyone to give it a go.

 

Keep the comments and advice going - don't stop

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Good luck for the trip,,Enjoy Pixxes and Vid is always good to watch, Hope the weather is nicefor you, it rreally does make all the difference.

[dave.e]

Don't forget to check the current PLA Notices http://www.pla.co.uk/Safety/Regulations-and-Guidance/Notices-to-Mariners/Notices-to-Mariners

 

I think that M15 and U3 are probably the most relevant between Limehouse and Brentford at the moment.

[Scholar Gypsy]

Don't forget to check the current PLA Notices http://www.pla.co.uk/Safety/Regulations-and-Guidance/Notices-to-Mariners/Notices-to-Mariners

 

I think that M15 and U3 are probably the most relevant between Limehouse and Brentford at the moment.

 

That was certainly the case last week. Here's an annotated version of the upstream guide that we used.

 

One important.change I made is to move (page 7) the suggested course at Hammersmith Bridge (when going upstream) to the centre of the bridge, not to the right of the centre. The latter track increases the risk of hitting Dove pier.

 

The PLA/TRRC give similar advice to rowers - see pages 62/63 here. And also here, and here

 

NB the buoy above Hammersmith is now green, not yellow, and so rather harder to spot. Photo below

 

 

Edited May 19, 2015 by Scholar Gypsy

[RichardN]

I am really looking for helpful hints, mainly what to expect regarding other traffic and suggestions as to the best tide times to plan for.

 

I was advised to contact St Pancras Cruising Club for advice, which I have, by email, but I didn't get a response. Their Thames Cruising Guide is quite useful, but any other advice would be welcome.

 

http://www.thamescruising.co.uk has all the hints we could think of.

 

There is a section about the turn into LImehouse, treat it with respect but don't be too worried about it, most boats get in unscathed!

 

Hammersmith Bridge - as Simon says aim for the middle, that means aim for the gap between "Hammersmith" and "Bridge". There is a photo here if that helps.

[Paul's Nulife4-2]

Actually RichardN

That's a Brilliant link, Thanks.

 

 

(Wish I'd read that a few years back )