Has anyone tried "traction" batteries?

[Blazeaway]

Nice reading this topic, very relevant for me too, just bought 4 x T105's and about to fit them, but first need to understand why the original batteries were cooked by previous owner.

 

Looks like I need to get myself one of those clamp meters.

 

 

Also

 

As far as 'fiddling with engines' goes...........I prefer my thumping great 5 litre V8 TVR, something you can really get some serious performance from. 0-60 in 4.2 and I've done that on the clock too....although at 135 mph I must admit to backing off.....on a track in Oxfordshire I might add.

[Sea Dog]

 

 

Swerving off-topic briefly, what was the best thing before sliced bread was invented?

 

 

MtB

Bread knife?

[Nickhlx]

Bread ?

[nicknorman]

Swerving off-topic briefly, what was the best thing before sliced bread was invented?

 

 

MtB

Pegu Club (cocktail).

[The Maestro]

 

In your earlier posts you said you were using 250 a/h between charges - that's a lot! (well assuming you charge every day - which I suspect you do not....)

As others have mentioned / implied there can be a lot of wasted engine running time in putting the last % charge into the batteries - that/'s where sampling what the smartgauge says will be of use.

 

However that doesn't solve the problem, which is either to put more charge in quickly, you need a bigger alternator (because with a charge controller it's probably making it work as hard as it can (dunno if I've got that right) or more batteries - the alternator then works harder for longer

Or both more alternator and more batteries

Or charge more often

Or don't use so much power - but I'm not going down that route.

 

I recall one of the regulars said about 800 ah was a reasonable target for use for somebody with less demand than you have.

 

I have 1,000 ah battery capacity and 2 x 150 amp alternators and they never churn out 300 amps but top up the batteries in about 4 hours.

The tv - sat - lights and heating don't take that much, but it's the fridge that's the killer.

Towards the end of last year I was charging 3 times per day. This meant making sure I was moored out of earshot of boats and houses so I could run the engine at 11pm. I have mains power now, until the end of March, and intend to run in the new batteries on mains before setting off for the summer.

 

The 250ah was a quick total of what I used per 24hrs. If I could get through 8pm to 8am on one charge I could live with that. I've rechecked and this would need about 90ah, 75ah if I turn the fridge off overnight.

[OldGoat]

Towards the end of last year I was charging 3 times per day. This meant making sure I was moored out of earshot of boats and houses so I could run the engine at 11pm. I have mains power now, until the end of March, and intend to run in the new batteries on mains before setting off for the summer.

 

The 250ah was a quick total of what I used per 24hrs. If I could get through 8pm to 8am on one charge I could live with that. I've rechecked and this would need about 90ah, 75ah if I turn the fridge off overnight.

 

 

 

 

Maestro -

 

That's quite some power - I took your 250ah as a reasonable figure - given the breakdown that you gave AND I don't criticise your blanket. That's what you want. If that's the lifestyle you want - then why not.

You say you charge 3 times per day - would that be at least 2 hours each?

There's obviously a gap that has to be filled because with all your effort you're still not putting enough energy back into the battery bank.

I'm a numbers man, so some more info would help.

I'm hazarding a guess that the alternator is not running to it's full capacity and there's no ammeter in circuit to show you what current is passing (?) - the smartgauge only measures the voltage and makes predictions based on that (?)

 

I suspect that:-

You're not running the engine fast enough to get the alternator's maximum power and / or

the gearing - engine pulley to alternator isn't good enough to spin the latter fast enough

Other reason (poor cable size / worn brushes and so on not getting the best out of the alternator.

 

SO could I persuade you to tell us:-

• What is your engine (make and model)
• What is the alternator (if there's no plate rough size diameter and length)
• What's the diameter of the engine and alternator pulleys

 

If you haven't got a tape measure or rule then an average hand is 4" from the second joint of the thumb to the base of the little finger.

 

Oh - and another - what's the fridge mains or 12v; is it one of those absorption type which can be gas / 12v / mains 240V. They are very, very inefficient. Popular because they are less expensive to buy and fine for occasional use - but a pain for a liveaboard. Or is it a compressor type (hums when in use) ? These take a lot of power but nowhere as much as the former.

Edited February 26, 2015 by OldGoat

[smileypete]

What should one do, as well as watching Smartguage?

 

Well another thing is it won't tell if the charge voltage is too high or low.

 

Batts should be charged to the mfr's recommended voltage, for tractions this includes periodic 'equalisation' charging at higher than normal voltages.

 

Much more info at The Battery FAQ:

 

http://batteryfaq.org/

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited February 26, 2015 by smileypete

[The Maestro]

 

 

Maestro -

 

That's quite some power - I took your 250ah as a reasonable figure - given the breakdown that you gave AND I don't criticise your blanket. That's what you want. If that's the lifestyle you want - then why not.

You say you charge 3 times per day - would that be at least 2 hours each?

There's obviously a gap that has to be filled because with all your effort you're still not putting enough energy back into the battery bank.

I'm a numbers man, so some more info would help.

I'm hazarding a guess that the alternator is not running to it's full capacity and there's no ammeter in circuit to show you what current is passing (?) - the smartgauge only measures the voltage and makes predictions based on that (?)

 

I suspect that:-

You're not running the engine fast enough to get the alternator's maximum power and / or

the gearing - engine pulley to alternator isn't good enough to spin the latter fast enough

Other reason (poor cable size / worn brushes and so on not getting the best out of the alternator.

 

SO could I persuade you to tell us:-

• What is your engine (make and model)
• What is the alternator (if there's no plate rough size diameter and length)
• What's the diameter of the engine and alternator pulleys

 

If you haven't got a tape measure or rule then an average hand is 4" from the second joint of the thumb to the base of the little finger.

 

Oh - and another - what's the fridge mains or 12v; is it one of those absorption type which can be gas / 12v / mains 240V. They are very, very inefficient. Popular because they are less expensive to buy and fine for occasional use - but a pain for a liveaboard. Or is it a compressor type (hums when in use) ? These take a lot of power but nowhere as much as the former.

Thank you for your interest and help.

 

The engine is a Vetus 33hp. The make of alternator isn't listed in the manual but I'll try and look when the rain stops. Likewise for pulley sizes, but you may not need this info because I adjust the engine revs when charging to get 14.8 volts, for 1-1.5 hours [usually but variable, average daily total 4-5 hours] The fridge is 12v, no 240v or gas option, and it makes a very quiet buzz rather than a hum! When the smartguage was fitted all the main cables were replaced with thicker ones 13mm diameter including the rubber.

 

During seven years of boating much advice about batteries, and work, has been conflicting and/or not specific enough, so the help from yourself and other posters has been a breath of fresh air. Of all the work done, the most useful has been the fitting of the charge controller - it has clearly given me much better charging for the same amount of engine running.

 

The electric blanket consumes 10ah per hour and is rarely on for more than 1 hour. The real biggie would seem to be the fridge. A friend who is technically savvy looked for alternators on Ebay. He found an Iskra 175 which is exactly what nickhlx suggested. It didn't sell so might be what I need.

[OldGoat]

Thank you for your interest and help.

 

The engine is a Vetus 33hp. The make of alternator isn't listed in the manual but I'll try and look when the rain stops. Likewise for pulley sizes, but you may not need this info because I adjust the engine revs when charging to get 14.8 volts, for 1-1.5 hours [usually but variable, average daily total 4-5 hours] The fridge is 12v, no 240v or gas option, and it makes a very quiet buzz rather than a hum! When the smartguage was fitted all the main cables were replaced with thicker ones 13mm diameter including the rubber.

 

During seven years of boating much advice about batteries, and work, has been conflicting and/or not specific enough, so the help from yourself and other posters has been a breath of fresh air. Of all the work done, the most useful has been the fitting of the charge controller - it has clearly given me much better charging for the same amount of engine running.

 

The electric blanket consumes 10ah per hour and is rarely on for more than 1 hour. The real biggie would seem to be the fridge. A friend who is technically savvy looked for alternators on Ebay. He found an Iskra 175 which is exactly what nickhlx suggested. It didn't sell so might be what I need.

 

 

Thanks for the thanks and it's great to get one's questions answered. It helps to focus my next set of questions...

(your luxury blanket seems to be quite greedy, I thought they were around 30W - your figure looks like it 100W. No matter as you only have it on for an hour)

 

The Vetus 33hp tended to have a small alternator as standard (50amp?) with a 75 as an option so you saying 95 was a special (or a mistake). I'm not wholly knowledgeable about these - but have gleaned info: from these fora.

If you were to go for a bigger unit then mounting it might be a challenge - a "large frame" alternator (which IMHO should be the size, rather than a smaller unit physically - where trying to get loads of power leads to unreliability), may be difficult to fit. Fortunately there are folks on here who have better knowledge in this field than I. I took the decision to fit girt big commercial (bus) alternators on my boat in the first place, but that doesn't help you...

 

As well as you monitoring the smartguage I think some measurements of current are in order and if you don't mind investing some £26 in a DC clamp meter (oft mentioned on here), then you can see how much power is going into the batteries - I suspect the current (charge rate) diminishes rapidly when you charge and that's another reason why your charging regime is not good enough.

 

I hope that the experts on here will join in now to reinforce / disagree with what I'm saying - in order to get a resolution for you.

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

Thanks for the thanks and it's great to get one's questions answered. It helps to focus my next set of questions...

(your luxury blanket seems to be quite greedy, I thought they were around 30W - your figure looks like it 100W. No matter as you only have it on for an hour)

 

The Vetus 33hp tended to have a small alternator as standard (50amp?) with a 75 as an option so you saying 95 was a special (or a mistake). I'm not wholly knowledgeable about these - but have gleaned info: from these fora.

If you were to go for a bigger unit then mounting it might be a challenge - a "large frame" alternator (which IMHO should be the size, rather than a smaller unit physically - where trying to get loads of power leads to unreliability), may be difficult to fit. Fortunately there are folks on here who have better knowledge in this field than I. I took the decision to fit girt big commercial (bus) alternators on my boat in the first place, but that doesn't help you...

 

As well as you monitoring the smartguage I think some measurements of current are in order and if you don't mind investing some £26 in a DC clamp meter (oft mentioned on here), then you can see how much power is going into the batteries - I suspect the current (charge rate) diminishes rapidly when you charge and that's another reason why your charging regime is not good enough.

 

I hope that the experts on here will join in now to reinforce / disagree with what I'm saying - in order to get a resolution for you.

I was thinking that. Ours certainly doesn't use 10A, more like 5a.

[OldGoat]

I was thinking that. Ours certainly doesn't use 10A, more like 5a.

 

 

HeHe - after all the rude remarks from others - Phyllis has come to admits she likes a bit of comfort too....

I bet there are more e-blanket lovers around who won't admit to it!

[David Schweizer]

 

Well another thing is it won't tell if the charge voltage is too high or low.

 

Batts should be charged to the mfr's recommended voltage, for tractions this includes periodic 'equalisation' charging at higher than normal voltages.

 

Much more info at The Battery FAQ:

 

http://batteryfaq.org/

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

 

Which is what the literature which came with our Alternator Regulator claims it does. I certainly don't do anything special with our batteries, and they seem to last a very long time, so the regulator must be doing what it claims to do.

Edited February 26, 2015 by David Schweizer

[peterboat]

Nice reading this topic, very relevant for me too, just bought 4 x T105's and about to fit them, but first need to understand why the original batteries were cooked by previous owner.

 

Looks like I need to get myself one of those clamp meters.

 

 

Also

 

As far as 'fiddling with engines' goes...........I prefer my thumping great 5 litre V8 TVR, something you can really get some serious performance from. 0-60 in 4.2 and I've done that on the clock too....although at 135 mph I must admit to backing off.....on a track in Oxfordshire I might add.

Just a toy car 5.7 v8 chevy C4 with king of the hill engine 435 hp 172mph 0-60 faster than a blink of the eye

 

Peter

[Naughty Cal]

 

 

HeHe - after all the rude remarks from others - Phyllis has come to admits she likes a bit of comfort too....

I bet there are more e-blanket lovers around who won't admit to it!

We have a lovely cream fleece blanket as well.

 

I'm not ashamed to say we have an electric blanket onboard. I have got nothing down for getting into a cold bed. I like being warm.

[peterboat]

 

Ahh Proper cars. I ran an an S type for years along with an e type ( a proper S type not the modern crap ) I had a mk2 for a while but I didnt think it as pretty as the S type and the S type having the irs was a muchoo better beast to drive. My fave though was a 420g Mk10 to the uninitiated, a simply awesomely comfortable monster.

As my commuting car for yonks I ran a superlative Daimler double six. It did 12 to the gallon at whatever speed I drove it at!!

I must say though that this old xj8 i now run is bloody good and you need to run something that can keep in front of all these poxy tractor engined cars tight sods seem to run today which of course it does with ease.

 

Tim

I repair all these cars, I to love the old S Type, but the new S Type is such a good car the 3 litre with regular servicing will clock up 300k. The problem with the old XK engines is they are lucky to clock up 100k without a rebuild. But those V12s in 5.3 or better still 6 litre they are so smooth and free revving such a nice engine but a plumbers nightmare with pipes. Which is why I like my american engines normally very simple and neat. But as I have said before those V8 jag engines such a nice unit.

 

Peter