Batteries. Cheap a cheerful, replace often or quality and maintain?

[Groundhog]

I'm torn. I need to replace the batteries that came with the boat. Currently some generic 110ah batteries that the previous owner installed in 2007. There's currently no battery monitoring system on the boat but even if they've been well cared for they're surely past their best. I'm making a few changes to the system wiring and have a Smargauge/bank and a BMV700 which I'll be installing as part of those changes and solar.

 

What's the general consensus. I have the space to install a much bigger bank. My first thoughts initially were to go for Trojan T125s based on various recommendations but now I'm torn. I could go further and get a bank of 2v forklift batteries, it'd need to some work on boxes but could give me a 1000ah bank - way more than I need and as I won't be working them hard should last a long, long time. The other option is go cheap as chips, 4 110ah generics and not be worried if I kill them inadvertently as they can be replaced for very little.

 

Is there even a right answer?

[magnetman]

I think 3 or 4 110 leisures, easily accessible for replacement is best

 

I bought expensive Rolls batteries which I killed in 18 months. They were replaced under warranty but if the second set fail in a similar way I don't know if they'll replace them again so the cheap 110s are probably cheaper anyway, and lighter !

I have fitted the Rolls (4000 series) so I can lift them out with a cable hoist. 55kg each

 

Before these I always used 110s and did ok but thought the Rolls would be an investment. Not too sure on that to be honest.

 

 

Are you talking second hand or new forklift batteries?

 

I also think a small bank is best

[MtB]

I'm torn. I need to replace the batteries that came with the boat.

 

 

Why?

 

A detailed explanation would help The Team give you focused advice.

 

MtB

 

 

MtB

[Groundhog]

 

 

Why?

 

A detailed explanation would help The Team give you focused advice.

 

MtB

 

 

MtB

 

They're tired. Approaching 8 years old. They might well have some like left in them but as I plan to get out on the system next year I'd rather set off knowing the boat has no pending issues, at least I'm aware of. Unless I'm wrong in thinking that cheap leisure batteries no matter how well cared for have a limited life span.

[jake_crew]

To get the best out of any battery bank you need to be able to charge it fully.

 

You need to do an energy audit so that you understand how much power you need - and when.

 

Then work out how you will generate that power ; inverter / generater / engine ?

[peterboat]

I went for 2v cells 9 years ago still going strong they are expensive but if you use them hard they will normally last way longer than cheap batteries. I have solar and a wispergen I am not hooked up to mains power so wanted the very best.

 

Peter

[Groundhog]

I think 3 or 4 110 leisures, easily accessible for replacement is best

 

I bought expensive Rolls batteries which I killed in 18 months. They were replaced under warranty but if the second set fail in a similar way I don't know if they'll replace them again so the cheap 110s are probably cheaper anyway, and lighter !

I have fitted the Rolls (4000 series) so I can lift them out with a cable hoist. 55kg each

 

Before these I always used 110s and did ok but thought the Rolls would be an investment. Not too sure on that to be honest.

 

 

Are you talking second hand or new forklift batteries?

 

I also think a small bank is best

 

I'm thinking new - I've got a mate who knows a bloke who's brother... I can get 6 1000ah 2v wet cells for the right side of a grand.

I went for 2v cells 9 years ago still going strong they are expensive but if you use them hard they will normally last way longer than cheap batteries. I have solar and a wispergen I am not hooked up to mains power so wanted the very best.

 

Peter

 

Based on some pretty basic calculations I'm thinking I 220ah would get me through 3 days. My is to actually test this. When I get the BMV installed I'll measure what I actually use over the course of a few weeks. Knowing this won't help me choose what batteries to use though, just how many / size I need.

[by'eck]

 

They're tired. Approaching 8 years old. They might well have some like left in them but as I plan to get out on the system next year I'd rather set off knowing the boat has no pending issues, at least I'm aware of. Unless I'm wrong in thinking that cheap leisure batteries no matter how well cared for have a limited life span.

 

Eight years use is an excellent life for what I assume to be run of the mill leisure batteries. Why not just go for the same again and save yourself money and heartache worrying how long a more expensive set will last.

[Burgiesburnin]

After getting 8 years from your current bank I would be reluctant to buy anything different again or change the setup in any way.

It sounds as though you are not 100% convinced that your batteries are now dead.

Monitor your current bank and access from there.

[Robbo]

I'm torn. I need to replace the batteries that came with the boat. Currently some generic 110ah batteries that the previous owner installed in 2007. There's currently no battery monitoring system on the boat but even if they've been well cared for they're surely past their best. I'm making a few changes to the system wiring and have a Smargauge/bank and a BMV700 which I'll be installing as part of those changes and solar.

 

What's the general consensus. I have the space to install a much bigger bank. My first thoughts initially were to go for Trojan T125s based on various recommendations but now I'm torn. I could go further and get a bank of 2v forklift batteries, it'd need to some work on boxes but could give me a 1000ah bank - way more than I need and as I won't be working them hard should last a long, long time. The other option is go cheap as chips, 4 110ah generics and not be worried if I kill them inadvertently as they can be replaced for very little.

 

Is there even a right answer?

There are multiple right answers, but if you are discharging daily then liesure batteries will be short lived. Trojan t105's are highly recommended even over t125's due to been a better cost per ah. My neig

hbour got 6 for less than £100 each inc. delivery from Tanya batteries. Not worth looking at leisure batteries at that price.

[smileypete]

If off grid/CC full time some well pampered Trojans etc might be best long term, but possibly not worth it if part time or marina based.

 

cheers, Pete.

~smpt~

Edited January 1, 2015 by smileypete

[magnetman]

I always think its Tanya Batteries but the big supplier is actually called Tayna Batteries

 

Or is there a Tanya as well - maybe there should be as they may get a fair bit of accidental business !!

[ditchcrawler]

After getting 8 years from your current bank I would be reluctant to buy anything different again or change the setup in any way.

It sounds as though you are not 100% convinced that your batteries are now dead.

Monitor your current bank and access from there.

I bet he couldn't buy the same batteries again show much he pays. 8 years and a lot changes, how many companies make general use batteries now. We all keep hearing about the battery warehouse that is full of identical batteries and several rolls of stick on labels.

 

I'm thinking new - I've got a mate who knows a bloke who's brother... I can get 6 1000ah 2v wet cells for the right side of a grand.

 

Based on some pretty basic calculations I'm thinking I 220ah would get me through 3 days. My is to actually test this. When I get the BMV installed I'll measure what I actually use over the course of a few weeks. Knowing this won't help me choose what batteries to use though, just how many / size I need.

and how long will it take you to recharge them on day 4

[Groundhog]

After getting 8 years from your current bank I would be reluctant to buy anything different again or change the setup in any way.

It sounds as though you are not 100% convinced that your batteries are now dead.

Monitor your current bank and access from there.

 

I've not owned the boat for 8 years, the previous owner installed the batteries in 2007 when they bought the boat. I'm not certain what use they've had. The owner claimed to have cruised extensively, others have told me he left the mooring he was on no more than twice in the 6 years he owned the boat and spent more on electric cards then diesel. Possibly the batteries are like new having been on a float charge all their lives. They did need water though when I bought the boat. I do plan to monitor the bank but I suspect I need more than 3 110s anyway, 4 I think would do it. I'll know more when I've measured some actual use and removed all guesswork.

and how long will it take you to recharge them on day 4

 

A good question, there's a pair of 70amp alternators on the boat which will be paralleled when I have the smartbank fitted. I'm hoping solar will be a big help as well.

[Neil Smith]

I am toying with getting 6x 2v cells as my mate works for a large fork lift co and will get them at cost direct from manufacturer when they order their stock, will work out cheaper than Trojans but will they be any better I don't know, also trying to work out what size bank I need for cc, its hard because I might be on the move every day or 2 or could be 2 weeks.

 

Neil

[trackman]

We live aboard our 8 year old boat. Initially we had no solar and relied on the 70A alternator for battery charging.

Our 4 x 110Ah open cell batteries lasted over 6 years from new.

Since then I've replaced the split charge diode with a relay controlled by a Smartbank/Smartguage system.

We also now gave 200W of solar panels.

When the original domestic batteries started to show their age I could find no reason to spend loads extra on special replacements and just bought 4 similar 110Ah ones.

Spending lots of time off grid we can't guarantee being able to care for expensive batteries well enough to ensure that they last long enough to pay back the extra cost.

It's horses for courses. If you are on a mains hook up with a good marine charger then Trojans or similar will be worth it if you look after them properly.

I imagine that if you have good alternator(s), cruise a lot of hours most days and have a decent solar set up, it might also work. Otherwise I don't know, but for us I'm happy with cheapies.

[ditchcrawler]

I am toying with getting 6x 2v cells as my mate works for a large fork lift co and will get them at cost direct from manufacturer when they order their stock, will work out cheaper than Trojans but will they be any better I don't know, also trying to work out what size bank I need for cc, its hard because I might be on the move every day or 2 or could be 2 weeks.

 

Neil

Whether you move or not you are still going to need to recharge them somehow

[rogeriko]

I am an installer of large battery systems that run houses off grid. If you want a decent set of batteries Forklift cells is the ONLY way to go. All these leisure batteries are just rebranded car batteries. Find yourself some decent Forklift batteries with tubular cells and they are good for 10/12 years no matter what you do to them. Dont forget in a factory a forklift runs the batteries down everyday and charges them up every night and they still last for years and years.

 

This should give you something to think about http://store.bluebatt.com/suche.php?suchausdruck=refurbished-Traktionszelle-Typ-6PzS750-2V-750Ah-2

[Neil Smith]

Yes I understand that but if I only stop for a couple of days I could get away with a small bank as they would charge up fairly fast with 50a and a 140a alts linked up,

but if I stay longer a larger bank would last but take a lot longer to charge, so cant decide on 500, 600, 700, or 800 amp hours.

 

Neil

[Groundhog]

I am an installer of large battery systems that run houses off grid. If you want a decent set of batteries Forklift cells is the ONLY way to go. All these leisure batteries are just rebranded car batteries. Find yourself some decent Forklift batteries with tubular cells and they are good for 10/12 years no matter what you do to them. Dont forget in a factory a forklift runs the batteries down everyday and charges them up every night and they still last for years and years.

 

This should give you something to think about http://store.bluebatt.com/suche.php?suchausdruck=refurbished-Traktionszelle-Typ-6PzS750-2V-750Ah-2

 

Interesting. I'm not sure what they can be had for in the UK but 69 euros for a refurbed 620ah cell - around £400 for a 620ah bank is good value. Can these batteries really be used that hard with no consequences? As I said, I think with my use I need around 80ah a day, 660ah would be plenty, especially if it was all available.

[rogeriko]

If all canal boats used Forklift batteries there wouldn't be a tenth of the threads on here with people having power problems. Nobody would even dream of using leisure batteries to supply an Off Grid house with power! A canal boat is an Off Grid house. Canal boats no longer use just one lightbulb they have microwaves, washing machines TV's etc used for hours every night. After 6 months of use a leisure battery has lost a lot of its capacity whereas a Forklift battery hasn't. A 620Ah 12v Forklift battery weighs 261 Kilos, how much do 5 leisure batteries weigh? Its the lead that counts.

[nicknorman]

I think it depends a lot on how you use the batteries, ie what you expect from them. My experience with cheapo leisure batteries is that they don't stand many cycles of discharge to 50%SoC and fast recharge before losing capacity. If you don't need a lot of capacity, that your batteries now have only 50% of their original capacity may not matter, but it did for us as heavy users. Now I have Trojan T105s coming up to a year old and still at 100% of their original capacity, I would never go back to cheapo leisures. I see them as a 1/2 way step to full traction batteries. Like many other things, the middle path is the best one, especially in terms of capital outlay and value for money.

[Groundhog]

If all canal boats used Forklift batteries there wouldn't be a tenth of the threads on here with people having power problems. Nobody would even dream of using leisure batteries to supply an Off Grid house with power! A canal boat is an Off Grid house. Canal boats no longer use just one lightbulb they have microwaves, washing machines TV's etc used for hours every night. After 6 months of use a leisure battery has lost a lot of its capacity whereas a Forklift battery hasn't. A 620Ah 12v Forklift battery weighs 261 Kilos, how much do 5 leisure batteries weigh? Its the lead that counts.

Interesting stuff. You're not the first person to tell me this, hence me considering them. The only source I have though is for new and I've no way of knowing if they're a deal or not. Those refurbs you linked to are good, cheaper than using new Trojans, shame they're in Germany.

[rogeriko]

Here is a couple of houses running on forklift batteries that I have installed.

 

 

[Groundhog]

Do you have a UK source for decent refurbed batteries?