Nobody hurt thankfully

[Peter X]

As quoted in the article, the hirers were experienced, so unlikely to repeat the error. Especially as has been pointed out (1) after a scary experience like that they'll be extra careful and (2) it was a trickier than usual lock.

The downside for the hirers will be that, even after a clean-up, the boat might be rather pongy for the rest of their trip after having the bow end underwater for a while?

[bassplayer]

Probably more than private boat owners when they buy a boat?

True...

[Southern Star]

I'll remind you of this post if it ever happens to you. You might have a bit of empathy for someone on a scary and confusing situation.

 

No, hang on, silly me, it's you, you don't do empathy.

 

I'm glad you were born knowing everything.

What a strange reply. I was told when I first hired a boat that somebody should constantly monitor the boat as the lock emptied and be prepared to abort the movement. I'm asking whether this incident could have been avoided had the crew shown more vigilance. Perhaps it couldn't have been, I'm just asking.

[Sabcat]

What a strange reply. I was told when I first hired a boat that somebody should constantly monitor the boat as the lock emptied and be prepared to abort the movement. I'm asking whether this incident could have been avoided had the crew shown more vigilance. Perhaps it couldn't have been, I'm just asking.

 

It could blatantly have been avoided, like most accidents that happen everywhere. It was simple human error. Once the error has been made though, especially if it's a result of momentary lack of concentration, by the time you've sussed what's going on and and tried to do something about it it's all too late.

[phill]

What a strange reply. I was told when I first hired a boat that somebody should constantly monitor the boat as the lock emptied and be prepared to abort the movement. I'm asking whether this incident could have been avoided had the crew shown more vigilance. Perhaps it couldn't have been, I'm just asking.

What a strange reply.

 

You don't appear to be asking as much as passing judgement.

Of course it could have been avoided. That's hardly the point though.

[Mike Todd]

It is very scary when you realise the boat is stuck whist emptying or filling a lock. I'm glad it turned out Ok in the end.

 

I wonder sometimes how much 'training' people get when they hire a boat these days. If you ensure there is one person manning each open paddle some of these incidents could be avoided but in practice it isn't always possible. I prefer to use just one paddle if I'm solo for this reason but then again it does slow things down. Also if you have a very leaky gate, shutting off the paddles might not help.

In my experience (OK a few years back) the training at Wyvern is pretty good and they do at least take hirers through the first lock or two (more than those bases nowhere near a lock)

[mattlad]

What a strange reply.

 

You don't appear to be asking as much as passing judgement.

Of course it could have been avoided. That's hardly the point though.

Of course it could have been avoided, but it's too late for the boat that was cilled in the lock.

 

Learn from someone else's misfortune and make sure that it does not happen to you or anyone you know!

[ditchcrawler]

I have cilled a hire boat. I was not on the boat so was able to respond instantly I saw the boat tip. Now I always carry a windlass while boating through locks, I always watch the boat, not wonder off for a chat or pick blackberry's, walk up or down to the next lock. I also tend to watch other boaters and fave prevented several incidents.

[Southern Star]

Of course it could have been avoided, but it's too late for the boat that was cilled in the lock.

 

Learn from someone else's misfortune and make sure that it does not happen to you or anyone you know!

Well, yes, that's why I asked. If the boat does become cilled, how long approximately would you say to abort the drop before the situation becomes irrecoverable? Also, if this did happen to me, or a private boater, does CaRT bill the owner for the cost of the recovery, is it covered by insurance etc?

[Naughty Cal]

 

Probably more than private boat owners when they buy a boat?

Judging by some of the boat handling we have seen today, and I use the word handling loosely, you have been generous with the use of the word probably!

[Stephen Sugg]

There were two on board according to the article, so one would have been at the tiller, the other at the paddles, it may have taken a couple of seconds to process what was going on and by all accounts in that lock that may have been long enough for it to have gone beyond the point of no return. It was an accident. They happen.

 

I have never cilled a boat but I have had one catch on the front gate when going up. Luckily it was a slow filling Napton lock so wasn't a major scare.

[matty40s]

Judging by some of the boat handling we have seen today, and I use the word handling loosely, you have been generous with the use of the word probably!

I was out for the day yesterday showing new boat owners the ropes of their boat and locks/ tunnels ( and as it ended up, night cruising).

Luckily, we were accompanied by a set of share boaters who knew everything, so I could show them plenty of examples of how not to do things, and the consequences.

Such as letting go your boat pointy end get taken by the outflow of a double lock, and trying to pull it back in with one hand whilst chatting to gongoozlers.

[mattlad]

Well, yes, that's why I asked. If the boat does become cilled, how long approximately would you say to abort the drop before the situation becomes irrecoverable? Also, if this did happen to me, or a private boater, does CaRT bill the owner for the cost of the recovery, is it covered by insurance etc?

To be honest it is better to make sure that it does not happen in the first place because even if you managed to avoid sinking the boat there is still plenty of potential to damage the stern-gear or even just lift the rudder out of the bottom bearing.

 

If you do inadvertently cill the boat you really cannot afford to waste a single second dropping the lower gate paddles and opening the top paddles to raise the boat off the cill. It is obviously impossible to say you have X number of seconds because it depends on so many factors......

 

 

Sorry can't answer your question about who pays to recover the boat, but obviously CaRT want the canal back open asap so should imagine they will recover costs when and where they can......

[Tony Dunkley]

As quoted in the article, the hirers were experienced, so unlikely to repeat the error. Especially as has been pointed out (1) after a scary experience like that they'll be extra careful and (2) it was a trickier than usual lock.

The downside for the hirers will be that, even after a clean-up, the boat might be rather pongy for the rest of their trip after having the bow end underwater for a while?

 

I dont' buy that . . . deeper doesn't equate with "trickier" . . . the hire company has also made the similar claim that "they were caught out by the depth of the lock".

[matty40s]

I dont' buy that . . . deeper doesn't equate with "trickier" . . . the hire company has also made the similar claim that "they were caught out by the depth of the lock".

This equates to front end damage being covered by insurance, boat being a long way from base and the costs of stopping the holiday and bringing the boat directly back exceed the costs of letting the hirer's bring it back, albeit via the Leicester ring. The hirer's may be prepared to put up with damp and any loss of lucky functions at the front. The river is exceptionally clear and clean at present , so mud/silt damage will be negligible.

Edited September 28, 2014 by matty40s

[Tony Dunkley]

This equates to front end damage being coveted by insurance, boat being a long way from base and the costs of stopping the holiday and bringing the boat directly back exceed the costs of letting the hirer's bring it back, albeit via the Leicester ring.

 

I think that answer must be for another Post.

[matty40s]

I think that answer must be for another Post.

No ,, probably a damage limitation exercise by the hire Co which keeps all parties happy and no release of financial penalties.

[Tony Dunkley]

No ,, probably a damage limitation exercise by the hire Co which keeps all parties happy and no release of financial penalties.

 

Surely it would be better in every respect to establish the real cause for the accident and then do something positive to prevent a recurrence, instead of a lot of tripe in statements intended to mislead insurers or anyone else involved, or observing.

Edited September 28, 2014 by tony dunkley

[ditchcrawler]

I have always said and will keep on doing so that the cill notices are on the wrong gates and should be on the bottom gates where a majority of steerers that I see seem to be looking

[matty40s]

Surely it would be better in every respect to establish the real cause for the accident and then do something positive to prevent a recurrence, instead of a lot of tripe in statements intended to mislead insurers or anyone else involved, or observing.

Agree entirely Tony, that lock with its blocked ground paddle and crap cill fenders has been an accident waiting to happen for years. Edited September 28, 2014 by matty40s

[Tony Dunkley]

I have always said and will keep on doing so that the cill notices are on the wrong gates and should be on the bottom gates where a majority of steerers that I see seem to be looking

 

Yes, a notice smack in front of you when drawing the bottom paddles and telling you to make sure the boat's clear of the Sill and can't drift back on to it (such as when there's a strong wind blowing uphill) would certainly help. I know more notices won't improve the look of anything, but sunken boats don't look too good either.

Edited September 28, 2014 by tony dunkley

[Tony Dunkley]

Agree entirely Tony, that lock with its blocked ground paddle and crap cill fenders has been an accident waiting to happen for years.

 

I can't agree that a blocked ground paddle could have contributed in any way, but from what I've heard about the state of that lock, the poor sod drawing the bottom paddles may have been too knackered by the task to be in a fit state to get them closed again quickly.

[GoodGurl]

well they are both ok cus they passed me yesterday going through swarkestone lock.

[bizzard]

I think they should do away with cill markers, for if folk don't know the extent of the cill they would make sure they kept their boats well up or well back, just like they used to do before the markers. And if you happen to have a boat only 2ft long you could even park the whole thing the wrong side of the marker altogether. Cillings were I think a pretty rare occurence before the markers were introduced, now it seems a very popular pastime.

Another thing, many of the boaters I see doing locks are often playing about about glued to mobile phones and stuff whilst locks are filling or emptying and are oblivious of what's happening around them.

[Tony Dunkley]

I think they should do away with cill markers, for if folk don't know the extent of the cill they would make sure they kept their boats well up or well back, just like they used to do before the markers. And if you happen to have a boat only 2ft long you could even park the whole thing the wrong side of the marker altogether. Cillings were I think a pretty rare occurence before the markers were introduced, now it seems a very popular pastime.

Another thing, many of the boaters I see doing locks are often playing about about glued to mobile phones and stuff whilst locks are filling or emptying and are oblivious of what's happening around them.

 

That's right, if boats are kept up against the bottom gates there's no chance of catching the cill. I think there is a tendency nowadays to keep back from the gates for fear of the stem fender getting caught up, but if stem fenders were not chained down in place then that cannot happen either.