cotswoldsman Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Ring Fenced Account, Seperate Deposit Account or whatever else a Brooker wants to call it is meaningless unless it is set up and managed by another legal entity such as a Solicitor who then manages the account. When a company goes into receivership the Official Receiver has access to all accounts belonging to that company it does not matter a jot if you were told it is Ring Fenced it is not it is simply another account. As long as the business holding the so called Ring Fenced account it is not Ring Fenced (hope that makes sence) if when paying the deposit you receive a receipt from either a Lawyer or a Bank confirming it is an officially recognised arm length account administered by a 3rd party then you are safe otherwise it is completly meaningless Wonder why GH would use two accounts. Is not the deposit also client money! The money belongs to whoever is the person that set up the account and in all probability is also the signature for the account. I can go to my bank tomorrow and fill in the paper work and call it Cotswoldsman Client Account but it would still be my account to do with as I wish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 (edited) We shall have agree to disagree on that. A client account can quite simply be set-up as a trust account and if the terms of that account are broken it is a breach of trust and the trustees become personally liable. The trustee can be employees of the brokerage firm as there should be no conflict of interest, although I accept it would be better if there was an independed on the "trustee board". Should add, investment managers and insurance brokers have client accounts and the receiver does not have access to those funds should the unthinkable happen. Ring Fenced Account, Seperate Deposit Account or whatever else a Brooker wants to call it is meaningless unless it is set up and managed by another legal entity such as a Solicitor who then manages the account. When a company goes into receivership the Official Receiver has access to all accounts belonging to that company it does not matter a jot if you were told it is Ring Fenced it is not it is simply another account. As long as the business holding the so called Ring Fenced account it is not Ring Fenced (hope that makes sence) if when paying the deposit you receive a receipt from either a Lawyer or a Bank confirming it is an officially recognised arm length account administered by a 3rd party then you are safe otherwise it is completly meaninglessThe money belongs to whoever is the person that set up the account and in all probability is also the signature for the account. I can go to my bank tomorrow and fill in the paper work and call it Cotswoldsman Client Account but it would still be my account to do with as I wish Edited September 30, 2014 by Traveller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotswoldsman Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 We shall have agree to disagree on that. A client account can quite simply be set-up as a trust account and if the terms of that account are broken it is a breach of trust and the trustees become personally liable. The trustee can be employees of the brokerage firm as there should be no conflict of interest, although I accept it would be better if there was an independed on the "trustee board". Should add, investment managers and insurance brokers have client accounts and the receiver does not have access to those funds should the unthinkable happen. We do not disagree I was pointing out that if you are told it is going to a client account you need to ensure it is a legally set up and protected client account. Just because the account is called Client Account does not mean it is a legally set up Client Account so before paying a deposit ask to see the legal status of that account Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 We do not disagree I was pointing out that if you are told it is going to a client account you need to ensure it is a legally set up and protected client account. Just because the account is called Client Account does not mean it is a legally set up Client Account so before paying a deposit ask to see the legal status of that account Sorry misunderstood - we do agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MtB Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Ring Fenced Account, Seperate Deposit Account or whatever else a Brooker wants to call it is meaningless unless it is set up and managed by another legal entity such as a Solicitor who then manages the account. When a company goes into receivership the Official Receiver has access to all accounts belonging to that company it does not matter a jot if you were told it is Ring Fenced it is not it is simply another account. As long as the business holding the so called Ring Fenced account it is not Ring Fenced (hope that makes sence) if when paying the deposit you receive a receipt from either a Lawyer or a Bank confirming it is an officially recognised arm length account administered by a 3rd party then you are safe otherwise it is completly meaningless The money belongs to whoever is the person that set up the account and in all probability is also the signature for the account. I can go to my bank tomorrow and fill in the paper work and call it Cotswoldsman Client Account but it would still be my account to do with as I wish Bang on the money. This is my understanding too. When I had the bathroom shop we took HUGE amounts of money in client deposits and I asked the bank for a client account. They were more than happy to set one up for me but I also asked my solicitor about it, and he told me pretty much verbatim what Cotswoldman says above. Unless the client account is held by a solicitor or other responsible entity it is available for the liquidator to plunder when the business goes bust, so offers NO PROTECTION whatever to the client despite it being called 'client account'. This WAS 25 years ago though so things may have changed. But I doubt it. MtB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traveller Posted September 30, 2014 Report Share Posted September 30, 2014 Bang on the money. This is my understanding too. When I had the bathroom shop we took HUGE amounts of money in client deposits and I asked the bank for a client account. They were more than happy to set one up for me but I also asked my solicitor about it, and he told me pretty much verbatim what Cotswoldman says above. Unless the client account is held by a solicitor or other responsible entity it is available for the liquidator to plunder when the business goes bust, so offers NO PROTECTION whatever to the client despite it being called 'client account'. This WAS 25 years ago though so things may have changed. But I doubt it. MtB Client accounts that are set up properly - as trust accounts - are a lot different to adhoc accounts set up by dodgy companies or companies that adopt dodgy practices for marketing purposes. A trust account is governed by trust law and the only signatories to that account will be those of the trustees of which there should be more than one. The trustees can be employees of the company but when acting as trustee they are acting in a completely separate role on behalf of the beneficiaries (the client) and not the company. If they breach the terms of the trust and money is lost they (the trustees) become personally and severally liable and there is no limit to that liability - that is their personal assets are at stake. It all comes down to knowing who you are doing business with and asking the right questions before parting with shed-loads of cash into an account of which you know absolutely nothing. One should always ask the appropriate questions. As far as these adhoc accounts are concerned, I agree entirely, they are probably valueless except the company promoting them might well be guilty of deception/misrepresentation. Using the bank might be an option though as I believe banks will service an escrow account which should achieve the required degree of safety, but at a cost to someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
single again Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I have to say that i bought my boat last june from NBS when they was based at Castle Marina Nottingham, But all my dealings was with James Shakespear and i have to say i found dealing with him to be totally professional at all times and was highly delighted at the level of service i recieved from him and his team right up until i had some sort of idea of what i was doing being a newbie to boat life. So much so that i recomended others to NBS It wasnt until NBS moved to Meadow Lane that i actually met Findlay Shakespear , Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie_q Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I have to agree with Single again. All the dealings I've had with them have been good although that was from the new build side. Without knowing the full circumstances I don't think we can comment on why the company is in receivership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cotswoldsman Posted October 1, 2014 Report Share Posted October 1, 2014 I have to agree with Single again. All the dealings I've had with them have been good although that was from the new build side. Without knowing the full circumstances I don't think we can comment on why the company is in receivership. Most probably because they were spending more than they were earning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoatyBill34 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I've known the company for years, they have been trying to hide this for a long time. Don't trust Findlay as far as you can throw him. HMRC have been in the yard looking for him along with the CID so it looks as though he will be arrested for embezzlement soon. Such a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athy Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I've known the company for years, they have been trying to hide this for a long time. Don't trust Findlay as far as you can throw him. HMRC have been in the yard looking for him along with the CID so it looks as though he will be arrested for embezzlement soon. Such a shame. It is indeed a shame, particularly for people whose boats are caught up in this unfortunate situation. So you know that he is going to be arrested for that crime? Are you a member of the constabulary? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Suzie_q Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 I've known the company for years, they have been trying to hide this for a long time. Don't trust Findlay as far as you can throw him. HMRC have been in the yard looking for him along with the CID so it looks as though he will be arrested for embezzlement soon. Such a shame. So you joined the forum today just to tell us that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anchor man Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 To all readers of this forum, Having read most of the entries i am like many of you saddened by the news of Nottingham Boat Sales going into liquidation especially where it concerns private individuals losing either their boat or money or both. I would however like to clarify the relationship between Nottingham castle Marina (part of Castle Marinas Ltd) and Nottingham Boat sales/Findlay properties ltd. Nottingham Castle Marina (Owlpower Ltd) opened in the early 1980's and was owned by the Shakespeare family, apart from the moorings they operated the chandlery and boat brokerage developing new boat sales in the early 2000's, David Mawby ltd (GRP cruiser sales) sold his boats via the brokerage. Nottingham Castle Marina (Owlpower Ltd) was sold to the current owners, Castle Marinas Ltd in April 2006 but did not want to operate a brokerage, Nottingham Boat Sales was formed by the Shakepeare family and leased the sales yard and some water space from the marina, David Mawby Ltd also became a tennant of the marina and dealt with his own sales and associated paperwork and advertising in his own right. Nottingham Boat Sales lease at the marina expired in December 2013 at which point they moved their entire operation to the Meadow lane site. David Mawby invested a substantial amount of money in new equipment and extended the terms of his lease to expand into Narrowboat brokerage engaging the services of Chris Pallett to run that side of his business David, myself and the staff at Nottingham Castle Marina have received many phone calls and personal visits from worried customers and suppliers of Nottingham boat sales assuming there is still a connection, whilst we sympathize with all concerned all we can say is that there is no link between either Nottingham Castle Marina ltd, David Mawby Ltd and Nottingham Boat Sales ltd Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to post this response Kind regards Mike Shipman Regional Manager Castle Marinas Ltd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoatyBill34 Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Im not a copper but the pair that were in the yard about 2 oclock today were, ask James Shakespeare he saw them. My boat is back in the water now anyway so im off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace and Favour Posted October 2, 2014 Report Share Posted October 2, 2014 Anchor Man, Thank you for your post, and the clarification that it brings to some elements of the situation in Nottingham. It is always a great concern when businesses experience problems that are/partially shouldered by customers and suppliers, and we can, at this moment, only hope that this particular business closure is being handled in such a way that customers and suppliers alike are not left out of pocket, and with a minimum of inconvenience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardH Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I understand that the receivers mentioned earlier in this post are no longer the receivers. Does anyone know what is going on. The temptation is to jump in my car and drive to Nottingham but there isn't much point if I just arrive to find a locked yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboat Posted October 3, 2014 Report Share Posted October 3, 2014 I understand that the receivers mentioned earlier in this post are no longer the receivers. Does anyone know what is going on. The temptation is to jump in my car and drive to Nottingham but there isn't much point if I just arrive to find a locked yard. It's true. I phoned them up today and couldn't get much out of them. They were only in until the creditiors meeting and an official one was appointed. The meeting was going to be on the 14th and it's been cancelled! That's all I can tell you other than the yard was locked today and it's a mess with so many rumours it's hard to tell what's true and what's not so I'm not going to post what I can't confirm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan de Enfield Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 (edited) **removed** Thats a fairly strong accusation. Not quite sure what this all has to do with a brokerage based on the River Trent (and a couple of miles away from Castle Marina) Edited October 6, 2014 by Grace & Favour Possibly libellous content Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slimboat Posted October 6, 2014 Report Share Posted October 6, 2014 Thats a fairly strong accusation. Not quite sure what this all has to do with a brokerage based on the River Trent (and a couple of miles away from Castle Marina) Sounds a bit bitter to me! 10 years ago it was probably still owned by the firm that's just gone bust, but people seem to have liked those times before it all went south. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardH Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Has anyone any knowledge of the situation in Nottingham. Not surprisingly the directors are not taking calls. The original receivers are no longer the receivers and to the best of our knowledge the yard is locked up with our boat and others in it. I thought about driving down but feel it would be a fruitless experience. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickfryer Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 Has anyone any knowledge of the situation in Nottingham. Not surprisingly the directors are not taking calls. The original receivers are no longer the receivers and to the best of our knowledge the yard is locked up with our boat and others in it. I thought about driving down but feel it would be a fruitless experience. Thanks I drove past last week, yard still locked up, half a dozen boats inside and looking down from the bridge, still several boats floating. From the rumours there are several people who have lost money or boats, maybe they should all be in touch somehow and speak as one. There does not appear to be any info anywhere on the Web about them going through, no news reports or anything. If you google it all you get is the thread on here. Very odd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardH Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) My sentiments exactly Nick. The wall of silence is most bizarre. Edited October 19, 2014 by RichardH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galeomma Posted October 19, 2014 Report Share Posted October 19, 2014 If it was my boat, and in the water, I'd be over the wall in the middle of the night and sailing it out of there. The law never favours the little man in these cases. Once the banks, HMRC etc have had their cut, you can whistle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pillingslock Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 The Action Fraud Line are investigating this matter, ref - NFRC141000786146 on behalf of our client who lost his £47,000 boat. Our client has given permission to share this reference ID to anyone else who needs to report the theft of their property or funds. The telephone number is 0300 123 2040 / actionfraud.police.uk Copies of any documents that were used need to be submitted so ensure you have them handy. Hope this is of help to anyone who needs it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlt Posted October 20, 2014 Report Share Posted October 20, 2014 .... ....Hope this is of help to anyone who needs it. Rank hypocrisy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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