boatman's cabin lamp

[Derek R.]

Lockside Antiques. http://www.lockside-antiques.co.uk/Home.html

[Laurence Hogg]

The lamps used in GUCCCo boats were Lucas units "off the shelf". They were a round bakerlite surround with a shell pattern glass (frosted), The lamps mention in relation to Tycho etc are old but are seat lights from railway stock.

Albert Jagger of Walsall used to list the modern equivalent of them but no longer has them in the present catalogue.

 

None of the lockside antiques stock bears any resemblance to the back cabin lights we made, however the blue tinplate bulkhead light isn't so antique, it was manufactured into the 1980's and made in Tyseley.

Edited September 11, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[Derek R.]

The lamps used in GUCCCo boats were Lucas units "off the shelf". They were a round bakerlite surround with a shell pattern glass (frosted), The lamps mention in relation to Tycho etc are old but are seat lights from railway stock.

 

(snipped)

 

I knew there was something familiar about them. Looks like a scour of the junk shops and adaptation will be required.

[David Schweizer]

I am planning to "thin out" my collection of old oil lamps in the near future. Amongst those being sold will be several bracket lamps which are all the conventional swivel type. They are not based upon piano sconces as in the examples shown by Lawrence, however, they could be used in a Back cabin. At the moment they all operate as paraffin oil lamps, but could be modified to use a standard bayonet light bulb if required (without damaging the integrity of the original brassware)

 

As soon as I get round to it I will post some photos

Edited September 12, 2014 by David Schweizer

[David Mack]

The lamps used in GUCCCo boats were Lucas units "off the shelf". They were a round bakerlite surround with a shell pattern glass (frosted), The lamps mention in relation to Tycho etc are old but are seat lights from railway stock.

Albert Jagger of Walsall used to list the modern equivalent of them but no longer has them in the present catalogue.

Do you have a picture of one?

[magnetman]

This sort of thing?

 

http://marinestore.co.uk/Davey_Deck_Head_Light_with_Switch_Brass.html

 

I have several in one of my boats with 'jelly mould' glass on them and they do give a nice spread of light.

[magnetman]

 

The ones I think LH describes are quite often seen in older boats like wooden broads cruisers and motoryachts

The glass is white not transparent.

[magnetman]

 

 

This one?

 

http://www.svvs.org/genpics7/1951_Wickham_Railcar.jpg

 

 

A Lucas 'Dome light'

 

Not got the required bakelite surround...

[Laurence Hogg]

This sort of thing?

 

http://marinestore.co.uk/Davey_Deck_Head_Light_with_Switch_Brass.html

 

I have several in one of my boats with 'jelly mould' glass on them and they do give a nice spread of light.

That's the design but god what a price!! Best to find some antique ones and do a LED conversion for less than a £5!!!

[magnetman]

 

 

£130 does seem a bit much definitely.

Edited September 12, 2014 by magnetman

[magnetman]

.

Turns out NB "Chertsey" has them as does Bakewell, apparently.

 

BenC do you have the boat from The Bargee film? Are there any scenes showing the back cabin?

http://chertsey130.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/a-little-light-restoration.html?m=1

Edited September 12, 2014 by magnetman

[magnetman]

 

 

Et Voila

 

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&id=111460103333

[carlt]

(Boy Scouts used to boil eggs in paper bags. Yet to try Boy Scout though)

 

Tastes like chicken...

[magnetman]

 

 

Should be easy enough to make a wooden ring surround or get a man to do a steel one and paint it

 

 

And fit a small LED panel behind it.

[BenC]

.Turns out NB "Chertsey" has them as does Bakewell, apparently.

BenC do you have the boat from The Bargee film? Are there any scenes showing the back cabin?http://chertsey130.blogspot.co.uk/2013/04/a-little-light-restoration.html?m=1

Most of the shots are of the butty inside, or a film set, as I doubt the would have fit all that bulky camera equipment in a back cabin.

I'm not trying to create an exact replica of a back cabin, as the inside would need to be compleatly refit. I'm just looking to give it a bit more character. But haven't watched the film for a while so will revisit it.

Never watch a film of a boat, have s few drinks and then ring the owner and bid on the boat! That's what we did all those years ago. ( mind you I don't regret it at all)

[FadeToScarlet]

Most of the shots are of the butty inside, or a film set, as I doubt the would have fit all that bulky camera equipment in a back cabin.

I'm not trying to create an exact replica of a back cabin, as the inside would need to be compleatly refit. I'm just looking to give it a bit more character. But haven't watched the film for a while so will revisit it.

Never watch a film of a boat, have s few drinks and then ring the owner and bid on the boat! That's what we did all those years ago. ( mind you I don't regret it at all)

You've got to have a shaving mirror in the table cupboard ("don't bang 'em about!") and a handy extra door with a map on.

[David Schweizer]

I am planning to "thin out" my collection of old oil lamps in the near future. Amongst those being sold will be several bracket lamps which are all the conventional swivel type. They are not based upon piano sconces as in the examples shown by Lawrence, however, they could be used in a Back cabin. At the moment they all operate as paraffin oil lamps, but could be modified to use a standard bayonet light bulb if required (without damaging the integrity of the original brassware)

 

As soon as I get round to it I will post some photos

 

At long last I have cleaned up the lamps which could be used in a narrowbopat back cabin, Here are some photos:-

 

 

Same bracket, different Fount

 

 

This one still need polishing !!!

 

Same bracket, different fount

 

Oh, and a very retro 1930's chrome plated hanging Harp Frame lamp on almost new condition.

 

I would welcome opinions rwegarding theirsuitablity for use in a back cabin, as none of tyhem use the more traditional piano sconce bracket. They all are currently set up to burn paraffin but some could easily be converted to 12v electricity, some can also utilise either a short or long chimney as shown in the first three photos.

 

When I decide to sell them I will put and advert in the "For Sale and Wanted " thread. in the meantime observations might be helpful, particularly regarding which fount seems more appropriate where there is a choice.

Edited October 13, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Paul H]

The problem with most "bracket" oil lamps is that they are just too tall for a back cabin particularly a motor boat. They need to be hung at a height that the bottom of the swing arm clears the brass fiddle rail of the range stove and yet be far enough away from the ceiling not to scorch it whether or not a smoke deflector is fitted. The use of a duplex burner makes the danger worse as well as probably being too bright in a small space That is why I think (as well as for economy) back cabin lamps were usually made from piano candle sconces with small "peg" oil lamps inserted. Some of your lamps may well be suitable but you'd have to supply dimensions. They all look splendid though.

Paul

[Laurence Hogg]

At long last I have cleaned up the lamps which could be used in a narrowbopat back cabin, Here are some photos:-

 

 

Same bracket, different Fount

 

 

This one still need polishing !!!

 

Same bracket, different fount

 

Oh, and a very retro 1930's chrome plated hanging Harp Frame lamp on almost new condition.

 

I would welcome opinions rwegarding theirsuitablity for use in a back cabin, as none of tyhem use the more traditional piano sconce bracket. They all are currently set up to burn paraffin but some could easily be converted to 12v electricity, some can also utilise either a short or long chimney as shown in the first three photos.

 

When I decide to sell them I will put and advert in the "For Sale and Wanted " thread. in the meantime observations might be helpful, particularly regarding which fount seems more appropriate where there is a choice.

Very interesting David. The first two brackets are of the style used in Gypsey caravans and if the clear glass font was ruby red it would fetch a fortune!

The next on is of Italian origin, being die cast brass originating from a company called Italned.

The next two again look like caravan brackets from the size the smaller chimney and burner is of Dutch origin. The other burners and fonts are English and from Brum. The last hanging lamp really needs a heat shade as it will burn the ceiling, again I think this is Dutch or an Aladdin from USA.

Certainly three out of four of those would complement any back cabin to my eyes.

[David Schweizer]

An interesting assesment Laurence. I will elaborate

 

The first and second ones are the same brass bracket with different fonts, The first one is as produced with brass cradle to accomodate the inset brass font, the second one is a multi faceted cut glass font of some quality. origionally from a pedestal oil lamp, and I agree if it was cranberry it would be worth a small fortune, but even as it is with no chips or faults it ihas some value.

 

The third one is actually cast iron, originally gilded, but most of it has worn off. It may be Dutch design but I am certain it was cast in Englanfd with both components bearing UK style registratiion numbers. This lamp along with the two previous ones uses a standard 1" slip burner with bulge chimneys

 

The last two are again the same bracket, and this is where I can confuse everone, it is made up from three componets bought quite separately and assembled by myself. I do not know the original function of the wall plate, the basket would have originally have been on a standard lamp probably used in a Church, and the arm is actually part of a gas bracket!! The fount in the first one is a fairly stadard cast glass drop in fount, using a bayonet fitting Hinks twin wick burner. The second one is a bit special, it is an unused central draught fount with a Court 16''' lifting burner made by Youngs of Birmingham with an original chimney.

 

The chromed plated harp frame is also English made by Veritas with a central draught burner, which i agree is probablyb their attempt to imitate the appearance (but not performance) of the poular Nickel plated Aladdin and Famos incandescent lamps of the time.

 

I should perhaps explain that along with two friends of mine, I used to collect and restore old oil lamps, not commercially but as a hobby. When I decided to buy a boat I disposed of most of my collection, keeping the local Auction house supplied with high quality (mainly) column lamps for the best part of a year, and made a lot of money, I retained about thirty and still have seven in the house, but have decided that I have accumulated so much "stuff" over the years that I need to start clearing the loft before i get too old, rather than leave a problem for my children.

 

P.S. I was recently given a box of oil lamp parts from the estate of a friend's aunt, amongst it I found sufficient parts to make up a lovely cast iron foot lamp with a cranberry fount, the first one I have ever owned!!

The problem with most "bracket" oil lamps is that they are just too tall for a back cabin particularly a motor boat. They need to be hung at a height that the bottom of the swing arm clears the brass fiddle rail of the range stove and yet be far enough away from the ceiling not to scorch it whether or not a smoke deflector is fitted. The use of a duplex burner makes the danger worse as well as probably being too bright in a small space That is why I think (as well as for economy) back cabin lamps were usually made from piano candle sconces with small "peg" oil lamps inserted. Some of your lamps may well be suitable but you'd have to supply dimensions. They all look splendid though.
Paul

 

I will try and measure them tomorrow and post the dimensions, but the first two brackets are quite compact. the third one is a bit bigger.

Edited October 13, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Laurence Hogg]

Fasinating the third one being iron and proably UK made, Italned had a outlet / warehouse in Daventry just a short way from Hancock & Lane, we sold a few of the brass ones in the early 1980's.

I commissioned a "new" Aladdin table lamp last night and was amazed at the output from the globe!

 

Edited October 13, 2014 by Laurence Hogg

[David Schweizer]

Fasinating the third one being iron and proably UK made, Italned had a outlet / warehouse in Daventry just a short way from Hancock & Lane, we sold a few of the brass ones in the early 1980's.

I commissioned a "new" Aladdin table lamp last night and was amazed at the output from the globe!

 

 

I actually have four Aladdin lamps,. They do give an incredible light and a substantial amount of heat. My favourite is a pre 1930 No 11 which uses the old Kone Kap mantle (no longer produced but I have quite a few in stock). It is more like a converntional oil lamp shape and has a lovely fluted milk glass shade, it is regularly commissioned to light and heat the conservatory on chilly autumn and spring evenings.

Edited October 13, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Derek R.]

 

At long last I have cleaned up the lamps which could be used in a narrowboat back cabin, Here are some photos:-

 

 

 

I would welcome opinions regarding their suitability for use in a back cabin, as none of them use the more traditional piano sconce bracket. They all are currently set up to burn paraffin but some could easily be converted to 12v electricity, some can also utilise either a short or long chimney as shown in the first three photos.

 

When I decide to sell them I will put and advert in the "For Sale and Wanted " thread. in the meantime observations might be helpful, particularly regarding which fount seems more appropriate where there is a choice.

 

Please, please - do not suggest that, it's sacrilege to electrocute a good oil lamp. A convenience that kills a good lamp.

 

That image shows what I perceive as a Matador burner, it's certainly the correct shaped chimney for one. I have such a burner in one of mine - excellent light and of course heat source. A Kosmos equivalent gives less light which itself is stronger than duplex, but even so, adequate for a back cabin. Very nice collection David, though that sconce is a bit OTT - French perhaps?

 

Pressure lamps mainly, but 'wickies' are tolerated:

http://www.classicpressurelamps.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/5024/

The International Guild:

http://lampguild.org/index.php?Defaulttext.shtml&1

Aladdin details from the Guild:

http://www.lampguild.org/LIDigest/AladdinUK12_article.pdf

 

[andywatson]

Plenty here:

 

http://www.parafinalia.biz/paraffin-lamps-c-136.html

[David Schweizer]

 

Please, please - do not suggest that, it's sacrilege to electrocute a good oil lamp. A convenience that kills a good lamp.

 

That image shows what I perceive as a Matador burner, it's certainly the correct shaped chimney for one. I have such a burner in one of mine - excellent light and of course heat source. A Kosmos equivalent gives less light which itself is stronger than duplex, but even so, adequate for a back cabin. Very nice collection David, though that sconce is a bit OTT - French perhaps?

 

Pressure lamps mainly, but 'wickies' are tolerated:

http://www.classicpressurelamps.com/forum/showtopic.php?tid/5024/

The International Guild:

http://lampguild.org/index.php?Defaulttext.shtml&1

Aladdin details from the Guild:

http://www.lampguild.org/LIDigest/AladdinUK12_article.pdf

 

 

I wholeheartedly agree, and would not even consider drilling holes in founts etc to achieve electrical operation. There are, however several ways to convert an old oil lamp without causing any damage to the lamp, the commonest method is to seek out an old unrepairable burner to convert, I have two which utilise this method, to convert back to oil you simply remove the "electrified" burner and replace it with a normal oil one. At one time Christopher Wray sold a range of electric burners , but they do not seem to list them any more.

 

Another method which would work in a back cabin is to suspend a cable from the ceiling with standard bayonet brass lamp holder down into the chimney and fit a bulb into the holder, this method sometimes demands some gymnastic manouvres, as the bulb will often only enter the chimney via the wider bottom wheras the holder needs to be inserted from the top. We have a harp frame lamp in our conservatory which is electrified this way. To convert back to oil you simply remove the bulb and lamp holder. One thing you do need to remember when electrifying is to make sure that there is no oil in the font and both the fount interior and wick are dry (or remove the wick)

 

Central draught lamps lend themselves to electrificatiion, by removing the spreader and constructing some sort of wedge to hold the burner which is plugged into the round hole vacated by the spreader. the cable is then dropped down the central airway befor a plug is attached. But make sure you keep the original spreader in a safe place, better still seek out an old burner which has already lost it's spreader.

 

With regard to the lamp illustrated, the burner is a 16''' Court by Youngs of Birmingham, and it is certainly the correct chimney, I managed to aquire two from an old Ironmonger's shop (long since closed) in Dolgellau back the 1970's. The sconce was fabricated by myself from "bits" (see reply to Laurence for details)

Edited October 14, 2014 by David Schweizer