Passing on the left - visual signals

[Tam & Di]

I fully appreciate that; however if I say 'I'm going left' for instance the logical extension of that is that the other boat also goes left or we end up in the same water. Action by implication.

 

Nevertheless Howard is absolutely correct, and there is a world of difference. The trouble with arm movements is the other boater is probably as ignorant of the rules as you yourself, and has to work out if you mean you are going left or if you want him to do so.

 

The bye-laws say:

Sound signals 12. (1) Every power-driven vessel navigating on any canal shall be furnished with an efficient whistle.

(2) When vessels are in sight of one another the master of a power-driven vessel under way in taking any of the courses hereinafter referred to in this Bye-law shall indicate that course by following signals on such whistle, namely : One short blast to mean “I am altering my course to starboard”, two short blasts to mean “I am altering my course to port”, three short blasts to mean “My engines are going astern”, four short blasts to mean “I am about to turn or to turn round”. This signal shall be followed after a short interval by one short blast if turning to starboard or two short blasts if turning to port and shall be repeated to any approaching vessel, whereupon such approaching vessel shall take action to avoid collision.

[arcsyst]

 

Nevertheless Howard is absolutely correct, and there is a world of difference. The trouble with arm movements is the other boater is probably as ignorant of the rules as you yourself, and has to work out if you mean you are going left or if you want him to do so.

 

The bye-laws say:

Sound signals 12. (1) Every power-driven vessel navigating on any canal shall be furnished with an efficient whistle.

(2) When vessels are in sight of one another the master of a power-driven vessel under way in taking any of the courses hereinafter referred to in this Bye-law shall indicate that course by following signals on such whistle, namely : One short blast to mean “I am altering my course to starboard”, two short blasts to mean “I am altering my course to port”, three short blasts to mean “My engines are going astern”, four short blasts to mean “I am about to turn or to turn round”. This signal shall be followed after a short interval by one short blast if turning to starboard or two short blasts if turning to port and shall be repeated to any approaching vessel, whereupon such approaching vessel shall take action to avoid collision.

My point exactly - they don't because they don't understand sound signals.

[Aunty_Rinum]

My point exactly - they don't because they don't understand sound signals.

Worrying, isn't it? The only way to correct that situation is more regulation. Nobody allowed to take charge of a powered vessel without having passed a test. A good idea but I don't think that the hire fleets would agree to that easily.

[howardang]

My point exactly - they don't because they don't understand sound signals.

But just because you have signalled you can't assume anything about an approaching boat or the actions that he should take . All you can do is take the best action you can take to avoid a collision. Too many collisions have been caused by acting on assumptions or "taking action using scanty information".

 

Howard

[MtB]

What action did you want them to take? The purpose of sound signals is not to give instructions but to inform the other party what your intentions are.

 

 

The action I usually want them to take is to stop gesticulating or shouting at me for hooting at them.

 

MtB

[arcsyst]

Worrying, isn't it? The only way to correct that situation is more regulation. Nobody allowed to take charge of a powered vessel without having passed a test. A good idea but I don't think that the hire fleets would agree to that easily.

I except hire boaters, others should know the rules of the road. "I'm sorry officer, I was unaware a red light meant I had to stop - I expected other road users would just get out of my way"

But just because you have signalled you can't assume anything about an approaching boat or the actions that he should take . All you can do is take the best action you can take to avoid a collision. Too many collisions have been caused by acting on assumptions or "taking action using scanty information".

 

Howard

And even more by people not understanding simple signals.

[ditchcrawler]

If you are going down the right hand side of the canal surly all the boats you meet are on your left, and you theirs.

[NickF]

You have no right to tell another craft what to do. The purpose of the sound signals is to tel them what you intend to do. I suggest that if another boat followed your instructions and this resulted in an accident/collision etc you would be given a hard time legally and by your insurance company.

 

Howard

I agree that I have no right to tell them where to go, but bearing in mind that power gives way to sail it is often helpful to indicate to the power boat which tack it would be easiest to pass them on, It can be pretty confusing for a cruiser approaching a sailing boat tacking up a river to know which side of the river to go. If everyone is working towards the same plan it works much better!

What action did you want them to take? The purpose of sound signals is not to give instructions but to inform the other party what your intentions are.

I have before received a load of abuse for aggressively using my horn at a bridge hole when actually I had given three blasts to let them know my engine was going astern.

[Tam & Di]

If you are going down the right hand side of the canal surly all the boats you meet are on your left, and you theirs.

 

It's certainly best to keep out of the way of surly boaters

[Dharl]

Worrying, isn't it? The only way to correct that situation is more regulation. Nobody allowed to take charge of a powered vessel without having passed a test. A good idea but I don't think that the hire fleets would agree to that easily.

 

One of the Hire boats that I have been on recently had a simple card printed by the horn advising of the different meanings, but it is also printed in he boaters book. Like all things it does mean that someone has to read the instructions of course!

[howardang]

 

One of the Hire boats that I have been on recently had a simple card printed by the horn advising of the different meanings, but it is also printed in he boaters book. Like all things it does mean that someone has to read the instructions of course!

The need for strict adherence to sound signals doesn't take into account the numerous boaters who are deaf! For example I know someone who is a very experienced skipper who is profoundly deaf, and my wife tells me that I also suffer from selective deafness - especially when she tells me it is my turn to make the tea.

 

Howard

[Tam & Di]

The need for strict adherence to sound signals doesn't take into account the numerous boaters who are deaf! For example I know someone who is a very experienced skipper who is profoundly deaf, and my wife tells me that I also suffer from selective deafness - especially when she tells me it is my turn to make the tea.

 

Obviously continental inland waterways are by and large busier with giant commercials ships than the UK, certainly than UK canals, but vessels over 20m are supposed to have an all-round yellow light synchronised with the horn button. I am fairly deaf too, but even for non-deaf people it is useful to know not only what is signalled but who is signalling when confronted with a dozen or more other vessels all going about their business.

[howardang]

 

Obviously continental inland waterways are by and large busier with giant commercials ships than the UK, certainly than UK canals, but vessels over 20m are supposed to have an all-round yellow light synchronised with the horn button. I am fairly deaf too, but even for non-deaf people it is useful to know not only what is signalled but who is signalling when confronted with a dozen or more other vessels all going about their business.

Yes and as you know a white light is allowed for under the Col Regs to supplement the appropriate sound signals (not compulsory). However, we're then faced with the problem of where to fit an all round light on a narrow boat.

 

Howard

Edited December 24, 2014 by howardang

[bargemast]

 

Obviously continental inland waterways are by and large busier with giant commercials ships than the UK, certainly than UK canals, but vessels over 20m are supposed to have an all-round yellow light synchronised with the horn button. I am fairly deaf too, but even for non-deaf people it is useful to know not only what is signalled but who is signalling when confronted with a dozen or more other vessels all going about their business.

 

You're right Tam (of course), they'll have that yellow light, but nowadays it's really rare if you hear these giant commercial ships using their horns, as they're all equipped with the AIS and they can see the names, tonnages, speed etc of all the other barges around, and 9 times out of 10, or probably even 99 times out of 100, they will just inform the others about what they're going to do by VHF instead of using their horns.

 

They may use it (maybe) to blow a pleasure boater into a safer position with the force of their horn.

 

Peter.

[ditchcrawler]

 

It's certainly best to keep out of the way of surly boaters

[ditchcrawler]

Yes and as you know a white light is allowed for under the Col Regs to supplement the appropriate sound signals (not compulsory). However, we're then faced with the problem of where to fit an all round light on a narrow boat.

 

Howard

I have one in the toilet

[Aunty_Rinum]

.....but bearing in mind that power gives way to sail it is often helpful to indicate to the power boat which tack it would be easiest to pass them on, It can be pretty confusing for a cruiser approaching a sailing boat tacking up a river to know which side of the river to go....

I've sailed all my life: dinghies, small sloops, ketches, yawls, large sloops all over the world. I also have a great big steel boat on the Thames.

If you think that power always gives way to sail then you are deluded. True, that is what is supposed to happen according to the ColRegs, but it only happens if a) it's possible, and the other party knows the rule. In the situation that you describe it is likely that the other party doesn't know what you mean and doesn't know the rules.

You would be safer if you stop directing the traffic and just keep out of their way. Anyone who understands what is happening will know where your tacking will take you and will be annoyed by your assumption that they don't know what they and you are doing.

You also have the option to heave to if you need to.

[howardang]

Here lies the body of Michael O'Day

Who died maintaining his right of way.

He was right, dead right, as he sailed along,

but he's just as dead as if he were wrong.

 

Howard

[Tam & Di]

I've sailed all my life: dinghies, small sloops, ketches, yawls, large sloops all over the world. I also have a great big steel boat on the Thames.

If you think that power always gives way to sail then you are deluded. True, that is what is supposed to happen according to the ColRegs, but it only happens if a) it's possible, and the other party knows the rule. In the situation that you describe it is likely that the other party doesn't know what you mean and doesn't know the rules.

You would be safer if you stop directing the traffic and just keep out of their way. Anyone who understands what is happening will know where your tacking will take you and will be annoyed by your assumption that they don't know what they and you are doing.

You also have the option to heave to if you need to.

 

Another difference within the CEVNI rules. ALL vessels under 20m give way to those over 20m. It is very improbable that you will meet a sailing boat over 20m on the inland waterways, but the general rule "Motor gives way to Sail" does not appy in CEVNI rules - it is little boats all give way to big ones. There may be local rules saying commercial craft have preference, but otherwise they come under the rule determined by length. It is absolutely essential to know the "highway code" on continentlal waterways.

 

It is no good there saying I've not bothered to read and learn the rules. The consequences are potentially more severe however than bouncing off another little boat on UK canals.

 

Tam

Edited December 25, 2014 by Tam & Di

[eggnostriva]

Why would you want to pass on the left anyway?

If I seen any one of you lot waving and pointing and tapping on your chests I'd probably just pull over as I would instantly interpretate your reckless body language as a medical emergency or life in danger.

Really why would you want to pass on the left?

You'd get no change from me, I'd just hold my course.

My pumpout fittings are on the port side of my boat. To get to the pump out station I need to go to the left hand side of the river. I have been doing this every fortnight for 3 years now. I use horn signals when neccessary and most people are fine with that, but I have been shouted at a few times by helpful boaters telling me that I am on the wrong side.

[dccruiser]

I have alays used a combination of hand signals and manouvering my boat in such a way to clearly show my intentions if i have had to pass on the "wrong side" to get to a water point, lock landing etc.

As for bridge holes inn the main i am happy to give way to opposing traffic and if i am passing a working style boat or pair i give them the chanel and hold to whichever side is necessary for them to pass.

I have been boating for 30+ years and can only ever remember one collission, that was caused when my gear linkage broke on a plastic cruiser and i rear ended a narrowboat that stopped ahead of me at a bridgehole and i had a choice of aiming for his rear fender or facing an oncoming boat head onm thankfully he saw what was happening and found it all very amusing.

I boat for pleasure and relaxation and am never in such a hurry that giving way or passing or being passed on the wrong side when necessary is going to be the end of the world, to my mind it comes down to common sense, when exiting a lock for example, if you are facing a boat chances are they are heading for the lock landing to drop off crew so should they aim that way i just pass the other side.

One point i must also make is the continual mention in threads of all these inexperienced hire boaters .... if there was a poll i am sure many hirers are not first time hirers and as these people get on a boat and in many cases cruise a complete ring in their first fortnight of hire, by the second time they are far more experienced than someone who owns a boat and lives aboard but only travels to the nearest pump out or fuel outlet once every few weeks.

 

Rick