Gas regulator - OPSO or not?

[MoominPapa]

I'm seriously considering a new gas regulator. I just checked the pigtails and they're over 10 years old. The regulator looks older, so I suspect it is an original fitment from when the the boat was built in 1991.

 

Most, but not all, of the regulator/changeover/pigtail sets I've seen online have OPSO, which I guess stands for Over Pressure Shut Off? Is this necessary or desirable? Isn't over pressure what the regulator protects against anyway? There's a significant difference in cost to get OPSO at eg Midland Chandlers.

 

Any recommendations as to suppliers and/or brands to buy? I want to replace the whole unit, manual changeover preferred.

 

 

MP.

[MoominPapa]

If I reply to myself will this get pushed up to the top of the "new content" page again? There must be peeps out there wot know.

 

MP.

[KevMc]

Yes I think you are right about what OPSO means .... the one I have caused me a few problems because I assumed you needed to push it to reset when it had activated .... leading me to a drawn out exerise in getting a replacement regulator ... however when I read the instructions for the new regulator it became clear that I needed to pull the button out to reset the OPSO - expensive lesson

[MtB]

As an LPG and boat qualified Gas Safe Register technician I can see barely any benefit in having an over pressure shut off device in a boat, and plenty of drawbacks. The main drawback being nuisance tripping; others being the unnecessary expense and the additional gas joints involved, all with the ability to leak.

 

OPSOs are neither desirable or necessary in my personal opinion. Nor are they required for BSS or PD5482-2005 Part III compliance as far as I am aware.

 

They are to protect the appliances (and the user!) from the extremely rare regulator failure when it passes full bottle pressure through to the gas appliance and the kettle boils too fast I've never seen this fault in the field, regulators usually failing in other ways. OPSOs are only mandatory when the gas supply is a bulk storage tank.

 

The other device you might encounter is an UPSO, for protection against under pressure in the event of major failure of a gas pipe. A crude leak protection device, also option on boats. Don't confuse the two.

 

MtB

Edited April 24, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[frangar]

I thought it helped if the regulator failed...it stops HP gas flowing and possibly causing a leak due to fittings etc not being rated for HP gas. I have heard of a few regulators failing so it might be a worthwhile idea to have....I'm not a gas person though so someone else might have a better idea.

 

Have you checked BES for a new regulator? They seem to do both sorts. Their prices and service are very good....no connection other than a satisfied customer.

 

 

Edited to add...

 

MtB beat me! Was thinking of you as I typed!

 

I thought someone on this forum had a regulator fail open and cause gas to escape from a cooker?

 

I also know of another boat that had the same thing in our marina...unless something else can cause the same symptoms??....or were these people very unlucky?

 

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

Edited April 24, 2014 by frangar

[Nine of Hearts]

Any recommendations as to suppliers and/or brands to buy? I want to replace the whole unit, manual changeover preferred.

 

Not sure how much help this will be, but I got one of these:

 

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Manual_Changeover_Propane_Gas_Regulator_Kit_POL.html

 

They were a pleasant company to deal with, and most helpful on getting me an odd 3/8 -> 5/16 T connector. It's not OPSO, though, so like you I wait with bated breath for an answer to that one.

[MtB]

Edited to add...

 

MtB beat me! Was thinking of you as I typed!

 

I thought someone on this forum had a regulator fail open and cause gas to escape from a cooker?

 

I also know of another boat that had the same thing in our marina...unless something else can cause the same symptoms??....or were these people very unlucky?

Gareth

 

I don't remember that thread, but yes I imagine it is possible. I still consider them the product of a bloke at a desk with too much time on his hands dreaming up scenarios the public need 'protection' from.

 

Most normal people (as opposed to the stupid ones ) I would expect to recognise that gas flames from the cooker a foot high are not normal, and have the initiative to get it fixed. Did either of the gas regulator failures you mention result in disaster?

 

On a related note, there is a new LPG pig tail on the market which can be connected to the LPG gas bottle without a spanner or tools. It has a neoprene sealing ring in the POL connector and a larger knurled nut for hand tightening. I have them on my boat and so far, they are very good and could be used with that neat and simple changeover kit from Hamilton. BES sell them if Hamilton don't.

 

MtB

Edited April 24, 2014 by Mike the Boilerman

[Alan de Enfield]

 

On a related note, there is a new LPG pig tail on the market which can be fitted without a spanner or tools. It has a neoprene sealing ring in the POL connector and a larger knurled nut for hand tightening. I have them on my boat and so far, they are very good! BES sell them.

 

MtB

 

We have had those in the beer cellar ( on the cellar gas) for some years - where a big 'plastic' nut slides over the brass nut and you can then hand tighten them.

If some gorrilla has tightened then you can slide off the 'plastic nut' and still use a spanner.

 

Are these LPG 'new ones' the same ?

[frangar]

I don't remember that thread, but yes I imagine it is possible. I still consider them the product of a bloke at a desk with too much time on his hands dreaming up scenarios the public need 'protection' from.

 

Most normal people (as opposed to the stupid ones ) and boaters especially I would expect to be able to recognise gas flames from the cooker a foot high are not normal, and have the initiative to get it fixed.

 

On a related note, there is a new LPG pig tail on the market which can be fitted without a spanner or tools. It has a neoprene sealing ring in the POL connector and a larger knurled nut for hand tightening. I have them on my boat and so far, they are very good! BES sell them.

 

MtB

A very fair point!....I take it they won't stop the gas if the reg failed with nothing being switched on? I was thinking of the very small chance of a reg failing when the gas was on at the bottle and then having HP gas leaking out past the cooker valves?...I'm not picking holes but just interested in how they work!

 

Oh and I agree about those pigtails....I have the same thing fitted as part of a "Gaslow" gauge which screws on the end of normal pigtails. They work really well...although they did cause my BSC examiner a bit of head scratching as he hadn't seen them before...had mine fitted for a couple of years now and they are really good....very handy for connecting the spare bottles where it's tricky to get to with a spanner.....the seals seem to be lasting well although I keep meaning to get a couple of spares just in case.

 

Cheers

 

Gareth

[MtB]

 

We have had those in the beer cellar ( on the cellar gas) for some years - where a big 'plastic' nut slides over the brass nut and you can then hand tighten them.

If some gorrilla has tightened then you can slide off the 'plastic nut' and still use a spanner.

 

Are these LPG 'new ones' the same ?

 

No mine have the plastic hand rings permanently fixed to the brass nuts. Yours sound better!

 

 

 

A very fair point!....I take it they won't stop the gas if the reg failed with nothing being switched on?

 

Well yes an OPSO would still trip. Whether is is well made enough to totally isolate the higher gas pressure after sitting there unused (except for the weekly nuisance trips) for ten years is anyone's guess

 

MtB

[YamYam]

Not sure how much help this will be, but I got one of these:

 

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/Manual_Changeover_Propane_Gas_Regulator_Kit_POL.html

 

They were a pleasant company to deal with, and most helpful on getting me an odd 3/8 -> 5/16 T connector. It's not OPSO, though, so like you I wait with bated breath for an answer to that one.

think ive been unlucky. I've had two of these units over the years, one leaked and the other failed. Took them out in the end and just use a regulator screwed into the gas bottle. Only round about a fiver so no big deal if it fails again but been going a couple of years without problems

[MoominPapa]

Thanks for the info everyone. Looks like sans-OPSO it is. The link Nine-of-Hearts gave is good, and much cheaper than the swindlers, but currently out-of-stock. I shall investigate BES. Have used them before and been very happy.

 

 

Cheers,

 

MP.

[Radiomariner]

BES OK. I ordered an automatic bottle change over device a year or so ago. Discovered it was too large to fit in my gas locker. No problem with BES changing over for a smaller manual change over and the refund was rapid.

 

With regard to the OP There was reports on this forum where some regulators failed allowing High Pressure being applied to appliances. One resulted in an explosion that blew the boat's cabin doors off. The owner I believe suffered only from singed eyebrows and lashes. The gas had been shut off at the bottles over winter. The time taken from opening the bottles to reach the hob and press the ignition button was enough to allow sufficient gas to leak, for this to happen. An over pressure device would have prevented this

[trackman]

I've had a regulator fail on camping equipment. 2ft high flames in a tent kitchen is very scary. Also the flames round the stove gas taps.

Fortunately the cylinder and regulator were only a few feet away and I was able to turn off the isolator on the regulator in time to save the tent etc.

This would not be so easy in a boat where a sprint outside to open the gas locker, reach in and turn things off might take a lot longer.

An OPSO doesn't sound so silly to me. Are there any failure stats for regulators? They would perhaps allow proper assessment of the real risks here.

[Ray T]

Lots available on eBay:

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksid=p2050601.m570.l1313&_nkw=Manual+Changeover+Propane+Gas+Regulator+Kit+POL&_sacat=0&_from=R40

[Rob@BSSOffice]

I've had a regulator fail on camping equipment. 2ft high flames in a tent kitchen is very scary. Also the flames round the stove gas taps.

Fortunately the cylinder and regulator were only a few feet away and I was able to turn off the isolator on the regulator in time to save the tent etc.

This would not be so easy in a boat where a sprint outside to open the gas locker, reach in and turn things off might take a lot longer.

An OPSO doesn't sound so silly to me. Are there any failure stats for regulators? They would perhaps allow proper assessment of the real risks here.

 

We are interested in this topic. there have been a couple of regulator failures last year resulting in fire/explosion incidents. So as Trackman says we would be keen to get a grip on the stats. If you know of any incidents and have details of the regulator and the symptoms of the failure, please contact us via the BSS website contact page (see web address in my sig below).

Edited April 29, 2014 by Rob@BSSOffice

[MtB]

I've had a regulator fail on camping equipment. 2ft high flames in a tent kitchen is very scary. Also the flames round the stove gas taps.

Fortunately the cylinder and regulator were only a few feet away and I was able to turn off the isolator on the regulator in time to save the tent etc.

This would not be so easy in a boat where a sprint outside to open the gas locker, reach in and turn things off might take a lot longer.

An OPSO doesn't sound so silly to me. Are there any failure stats for regulators? They would perhaps allow proper assessment of the real risks here.

 

Scary indeed. But you might modify your views after a couple of instances of coming home from the pub to find the roast dinner you put in the oven before going is cold, uncooked and raw because the OPSO has nuisance-tripped!

 

Failure stats on anything related to gas seem to be a closely guarded secret. It's hard to understand why, but stats and the results of post-accident investigations are never published or even distributed within the gas industry.

 

MtB

[nicknorman]

As MTB said, if the normal regulator which is constantly exercised, fails, what are the chances of the never-exercised OPSO working?

 

My only experience of a failed reg was on a caravan where the reg lived on a bottle outside. For years it was mounted with the vent hole uppermost and used to fill with water when it rained. If I arrived at the caravan when freezing I had to heat the reg before any gas would come out (Mmm, no hot water so I wonder how I heated the reg!). Eventually it started to stick open with big flames so I replaced it and by then had the sense to put it hole-down. So my point is, reg reliability is surely closely linked to environment, and cosy in a gas locker has to be much better than outside exposed to the elements.