Pigeon Boxes.

[Southern Star]

I understand that the painted protuberance in the foreground of this photo is called a "pigeon box", but can anybody tell me what it is actually for? Does it have any functional purpose or is it just imitating something once found on working boats? And if so, was that actually to keep a pigeon in or what?

 

[MtB]

It's to ventilate and illuminate the engine 'ole.

 

Yours appears to have its portholes missing though, so isn't a proper pigeon box.

 

 

MtB

[mark99]

oh err........ black clubs motiff on side hatch roof ........... very untrad!

[David Schweizer]

Surely the pigeon box was originally intended to be the air intake for Air cooled engines, I am sure I have seen canvas trunking between the pigeon box and the air intake on some old boats.

 

 

 

oh err........ black clubs motiff on side hatch roof ........... very untrad!

 

Supposedly unlucky!

Edited March 17, 2014 by David Schweizer

[Southern Star]

It's to ventilate and illuminate the engine 'ole.

 

Yours appears to have its portholes missing though, so isn't a proper pigeon box.

 

 

MtB

 

It's to ventilate and illuminate the engine 'ole.

 

Yours appears to have its portholes missing though, so isn't a proper pigeon box.

 

 

MtB

Many thanks... not mine alas! June 2015 is my target date for handing over the spondulicks....

 

It is a rather pretty boat though, all of my favourite boaty colours!

 

[Ex- Member]

It's to ventilate and illuminate the engine 'ole.

 

Yours appears to have its portholes missing though, so isn't a proper pigeon box.

 

 

MtB

 

Hi Mike

 

I never realised they were specifically for engine rooms. When we had our boat built we had a pigeon hatch for the saloon/galley, at least that's what it was described as. It's 5 f/t x 3 f/t Can I ask and also if anyone else knows, is this really a pigeon hatch or box. Some time ago someone commented it was a dog box, I wasn't sure if it was a joke. So is there a separate name for the type we have.

 

Best external photos I have.

 

 

 

ETA found this one.

 

Edited March 17, 2014 by Julynian

[furnessvale]

Surely the pigeon box was originally intended to be the air intake for Air cooled engines, I am sure I have seen canvas trunking between the pigeon box and the air intake on some old boats.

 

 

 

 

 

The air intake for air cooled engines is a separate square box normally offset from the centreline.

 

The pigeonbox is always on the centreline and the flaps can be opened or closed to allow hot air to escape from an air or water cooled engine as necessary.

 

George ex nb Alton retired

[Ray T]

 

Edited March 17, 2014 by Ray T

[alan_fincher]

Surely the pigeon box was originally intended to be the air intake for Air cooled engines, I am sure I have seen canvas trunking between the pigeon box and the air intake on some old boats.

 

In which case why were the GUCCCo fleet all originally equipped with them, given that they all had water cooled engines?

 

When the air-cooled Petters went in the 1960s, the air ducting was through a separate covered hole on the roof, completely separate to the pigeon box.

 

EDIT:

 

This picture of "Birmingham", (which has an air cooled Lister), clearly shows the outlet for the ducting for the air cooling, (having a raised rounded "lid" over it).

 

Edited March 17, 2014 by alan_fincher

[FadeToScarlet]

 

Cassiopeia in the centre has a "biscuit tin", as I've heard them referred to.

Hi Mike

 

I never realised they were specifically for engine rooms. When we had our boat built we had a pigeon hatch for the saloon/galley, at least that's what it was described as. It's 5 f/t x 3 f/t Can I ask and also if anyone else knows, is this really a pigeon hatch or box. Some time ago someone commented it was a dog box, I wasn't sure if it was a joke. So is there a separate name for the type we have.

I think that a dog box is a more seagoing nautical term for this kind of roof light.

[Ex- Member]

Cassiopeia in the centre has a "biscuit tin", as I've heard them referred to.

 

I think that a dog box is a more seagoing nautical term for this kind of roof light.

 

Ok cheers, maybe the past comment was referring to that.

 

 

I quite like the term dog box

[David Mack]

My understanding is that on the earliest motors, with single cylinder semi diesel engines, the pigeon box was fitted directly above the cylinder, so that the piston could be drawn straight out without needing to unbolt the steelwork.

I never realised they were specifically for engine rooms. When we had our boat built we had a pigeon hatch for the saloon/galley, at least that's what it was described as. It's 5 f/t x 3 f/t Can I ask and also if anyone else knows, is this really a pigeon hatch or box. Some time ago someone commented it was a dog box, I wasn't sure if it was a joke. So is there a separate name for the type we have.

Pigeon box refers to the small sized one traditionally fitted to engine rooms, but also more recently used over the living accommodation, whereas dog box describes the altogether larger version, sometimes fully glazed rather than just with portholes.

[David Schweizer]

 

In which case why were the GUCCCo fleet all originally equipped with them, given that they all had water cooled engines?

 

When the air-cooled Petters went in the 1960s, the air ducting was through a separate covered hole on the roof, completely separate to the pigeon box.

 

EDIT:

 

This picture of "Birmingham", (which has an air cooled Lister), clearly shows the outlet for the ducting for the air cooling, (having a raised rounded "lid" over it).

 

 

 

 

 

Right! I feel suitably admonished for knowing nothing. In my defence all I can say is that, when I worked her in the 1960's, Pisces had neither (photographic evidence is a vailable).

Edited March 18, 2014 by David Schweizer

[FadeToScarlet]

Right! I feel suitably admonished for knowing nothing. In my defence all I can say is that Pisces had neither (photographic evidence is a vailable)

Did it have a biscuit tin, like Cassiopeia in the photo above, with them both being "small" motors?

[David Schweizer]

Did it have a biscuit tin, like Cassiopeia in the photo above, with them both being "small" motors?

 

No, by that time she had been converted into a BW waterbus and had a huge funnel on the roof (containg a Gas bottle) but nothing else, and no sign of anything having been removed.

[Ex- Member]

My understanding is that on the earliest motors, with single cylinder semi diesel engines, the pigeon box was fitted directly above the cylinder, so that the piston could be drawn straight out without needing to unbolt the steelwork.

 

Pigeon box refers to the small sized one traditionally fitted to engine rooms, but also more recently used over the living accommodation, whereas dog box describes the altogether larger version, sometimes fully glazed rather than just with portholes.

 

I think that probably puts ours in the dog box category, although we have portholes they are big and the hatch it's self 5 f/t x 3. I haven't seen many like ours on our travels either. Being directly over the galley though they're a brilliant source of light and more so ventilation when cooking, they can open quite wide too.

[FadeToScarlet]

No, by that time she had been converted into a BW waterbus and had a huge funnel on the roof (containg a Gas bottle) but nothing else, and no sign of anything having been removed.

Thinking back to pictures of it with the funnel, it was probably under where the funnel is!

[David Schweizer]

Thinking back to pictures of it with the funnel, it was probably under where the funnel is!

 

We eventually cut the funnel off, and I have no recollection of a Pigeon box frame or hole underneath, but I could be mistaken. The funnel was forward of the removeable engine room roof plate:-

 

Edited March 18, 2014 by David Schweizer

[alan_fincher]

It actually seems quite hard to find many images on the Internet of GUCCCo boats before nationalisation that are sufficiently well reproduced to see good detail of what was on top of typical engine rooms.

 

A reminder of some pictures Laurence Hogg has previously posted

 

This one clearly shows the original "liner style" exhaust in addition to a pigeon box, but I'm not sure what boat.

 

 

Here's an example of a pigeon box on an approaching boat, (although the thread from whgich it is borrowed failed to reach consensus on exactly which type of GUCCCo boat it is!)

 

 

I can find pictures of both Yarwoods and H&W stars straight off the dock after their original build, but not on the Internet. You can see there are pigeon boxes there, but not in any detail, really.

[Ray T]

Best I can find:

 

 

 

Not sure if this boat is GUCCCo

 

Edited March 18, 2014 by Ray T

[alan_fincher]

Interesting that the boxes on both those first two boats are taller, (and hence have more sloping lids), than I'm used to.

 

Maybe Yarwoods ones were "shallower" than those fitted to a Woolwich?

 

The third picture looks to me like Ted Ward steering a Willow Wren CTS boat.

 

Ted Ward worked a number of ex GUCCCo boats for Willow Wren, and delivered the very last load of coal to Croxley Mills using "Redshank", (GUCCCo "Reading") & "Ara".