National User Forum 25th February - Sharing Towpaths

[RLWP]

The second subject that was handled as group discussions was the new Sharing towpaths strategies. There is a document which I have put up on my website here:

 

http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Sharing-Towpaths.pdf

 

and two sets of questions. This is the first set that we were given as group work:

 

 

Consider the ‘Principles’ in the policy and identify the 3 most important by rank order. Additionally, consider any issues not

fully covered.

The Trust has summarised the things it can do for towpath sharing as being – ‘better infrastructure, better signage and encouraging better behaviours’. Do you agree with these and what else can we or others do.

The draft ‘Towpath Code’ supported by the ‘Share the Space’ campaign are based on those agreed with stakeholders and now being used on the London Waterway. Please consider the Code, including any improvements or omissions that may be required for local use.

 

The second set may have been in the presentation:

 

 

Discussion Questions

 

1.Do you experience problems on your local towpath?

2.What additional priorities should we address in our code of conduct?

3.What behaviours should we seek to encourage?

4.How should we encourage better sharing of towpaths?

5.Should we adopt the same approach in all areas, urban and rural?

6.How should we balance the needs of busy communities with capacity of the towpaths in those areas?

 

So, as with the short term mooring thread, I'm looking for ideas and contributions from anyone. Personally, I'd like to hear from anyone involved with or living with the 'Share the Space' campaign. I had the briefest experience of this with the new signs and speed bumps near City Road basin

 

Richard

[DaveC]

RLWP, on 04 Mar 2014 - 1:41 PM, said:

The second subject that was handled as group discussions was the new Sharing towpaths strategies. There is a document which I have put up on my website here:

 

http://www.primrose-engineering.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/Sharing-Towpaths.pdf

 

 

 

The link to your web site seemed to crash IE, got this:

 

 

Internet Explorer has closed this webpage to help protect your computer

A malfunctioning or malicious add-on has caused Internet Explorer to close this webpage. What you can do: Go to your home page<id id="goHomeNoscript">Go to your home page</id> Try to return to primrose-engineering.co.uk<id id="retryNoscript">Try to return to the page you were viewing</id> More information<ID id="moreInformation">More information</ID>

Windows Data Execution Prevention detected an add-on trying to use system memory incorrectly. This can be caused by a malfunction or a malicious add-on.

Other things you can do:

Go online to learn about the Data Execution Prevention (DEP) security feature

 

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Dave

[carlt]

Any ideas?

 

 

Dave

Opened fine in Chrome with no bells or whistles from my anti-malware software.

[Guest]

Opened fine in Chrome with no bells or whistles from my anti-malware software.

 

Opened fine here in both chrome and IE 10 just fine.

[DaveC]

I'm using IE 9 at the moment.

 

 

Dave

[tree]

opened okie dokies here on my nexus tablet thingy. On chrome Edited March 4, 2014 by tree

[churchward]

I have read the PDF in the link. I am all for improving the towpaths in some areas particularly in towns for access by as many people who wish to use it. I have two concerns. It is also good to look for additional funding from other sources to improve and maintain the towpaths.

 

A lot of the canal network is out in the country away from towns etc. so I am concerned that these areas retain a more naturalised look and not be over developed. It woudl spoil the thing we go there to enjoy.

 

Secondly where cycling is likely to be popular there must be means physical or otherwise to prevent cyclists from going too fast for other users of the towpath. I know the document states that it is a requirement to respect all users and slow down but that is true now and some cyclists ignore this. Any development needs to include the costs to make provision to calm/limit the cyclists speed. I also suggest that the towpath needs to be wide enough for people to comfortably to step aside safely.

Edited March 4, 2014 by churchward

[RLWP]

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Dave

 

Sorry Dave, I haven't. I'll have a check on the CRT site for it

 

Richard

[KevMc]

I have read the PDF in the link. I am all for improving the towpaths in some areas particularly in towns for access by as many people who wish to use it. I have two concerns. It is also good to look for additional funding from other sources to improve and maintain the towpaths.

 

A lot of the canal network is out in the country away from towns etc. so I am concerned that these areas retain a more naturalised look and not be over developed. It woudl spoil the thing we go there to enjoy.

 

Secondly where cycling is likely to be popular there must be means physical or otherwise to prevent cyclists from going too fast for other users of the towpath. I know the document states that it is a requirement to respect all users and slow down but that is true now and some cyclists ignore this. Any development needs to include the costs to make provision to calm/limit the cyclists speed. I also suggest that the towpath needs to be wide enough for people to comfortably to step aside safely.

 

Cobblestones?

[churchward]

 

Cobblestones?

I think you may need to expand on that point.

[john6767]

To me the biggest issue for CRT to overcome it to get over to the general public what the towpaths are in the first place. There is little point in CRT putting documents of their web site promoting codes of practice, when most of the public would not have a clue who CRT are and that these paths are anything other than a public footpaths.

 

Now don't get me started on irresponsible cyclists.....

[Pete & Helen]

Every area of the network is going to have its own unique issues/needs but the overwhelming issue always seems to be the differential in speed by users (not going to specifically pick on cyclists).

The policy also seems to indicate that funding comes from many different sources that have their own groups interest at heart this (if correct) needs to have strong control otherwise the "use for all" will not be realistic.

[KevMc]

I think you may need to expand on that point.

They might slow cyclists down :-P

[churchward]

They might slow cyclists down :-P

Ah yes sorry I was being a bit slow there! Certainly a rough surface may help.

[kris88]

i think it needs to be made clear that cyclists need to give way to pedestrians.even on the parts of the towpath that are now part of the national cycleways.

I dont know if signage is the best way to do this but something needs to happen

[churchward]

i think it needs to be made clear that cyclists need to give way to pedestrians.even on the parts of the towpath that are now part of the national cycleways.

I dont know if signage is the best way to do this but something needs to happen

Yes I agree Pedestrians need to have right of way.

[kris88]

im not shure if more sinage is the way . I dont want the towpath to be like the high street. But ive seen more and more instances of cyclist getting irate with pedestrians, because they are being made to slow down from there racing speed

[Starcoaster]

Consider the ‘Principles’ in the policy and identify the 3 most important by rank order. Additionally, consider any issues not

fully covered.

 

6,4,2 in that order with the caveat on 2 that "priorities" like fender growth and "save the vole by overgrowing the canal" do not come at the expense of boaters' own needs.

Discussion Questions

1.Do you experience problems on your local towpath?

Sometimes, but only usually in the summer.

Dogs out of control

Unlicenced anglers sitting right next to the boat drinking, effing and blinding if you run the engine, staying overnight drinking and generally being dicks, then leaving litter

Cyclists going too fast

2.What additional priorities should we address in our code of conduct?

Raise awareness among non-boating towapth users that the towpaths are shared spaces, boats are a given on them, not an inconvenience. Ergo, smoke will come out of chimneys, you might have to wait 30 effing seconds to get past while someone is pulling a boat in without swearing about it, etc. etc.

3.What behaviours should we seek to encourage?

Slowing down (bikers). Dogs under control and within sight of their owner at all times.

4.How should we encourage better sharing of towpaths?

No idea. What incentive is there for non-boaters to not be dick if they want to be one?

5.Should we adopt the same approach in all areas, urban and rural?

That depends on whether all areas face the same issues and concerns really, innit.

6.How should we balance the needs of busy communities with capacity of the towpaths in those areas?

Again,back to the fact that it might be a shared space, but boats and the immediate needs of boaters (like, to moor up, to get on and off their boats etc), ultimately have to take priority.

[matty40s]

 

6,4,2 in that order with the caveat on 2 that "priorities" like fender growth and "save the vole by overgrowing the canal" do not come at the expense of boaters' own needs.

Discussion Questions

1.Do you experience problems on your local towpath?

Sometimes, but only usually in the summer.

Dogs out of control

Unlicenced anglers sitting right next to the boat drinking, effing and blinding if you run the engine, staying overnight drinking and generally being dicks, then leaving litter

Cyclists going too fast

2.What additional priorities should we address in our code of conduct?

Raise awareness among non-boating towapth users that the towpaths are shared spaces, boats are a given on them, not an inconvenience. Ergo, smoke will come out of chimneys, you might have to wait 30 effing seconds to get past while someone is pulling a boat in without swearing about it, etc. etc.

3.What behaviours should we seek to encourage?

Slowing down (bikers). Dogs under control and within sight of their owner at all times.

4.How should we encourage better sharing of towpaths?

No idea. What incentive is there for non-boaters to not be dick if they want to be one?

5.Should we adopt the same approach in all areas, urban and rural?

That depends on whether all areas face the same issues and concerns really, innit.

6.How should we balance the needs of busy communities with capacity of the towpaths in those areas?

Again,back to the fact that it might be a shared space, but boats and the immediate needs of boaters (like, to moor up, to get on and off their boats etc), ultimately have to take priority.

 

Perhaps if you left your mooring more often, all year round, you may experience more variety of issues, and come up with more solutions.

 

The towpaths in you local area are a disgrace at the moment,some were improved for all users several years ago, and then semi-turfed over afterwards for some ludicrous reason. This has resulted in quagmire towpaths with a walkable in wellies stone underpath in the middle. There are also areas near the golf course between Hillmorton and Rugby Retail Park which are dangerously close to breach, the soil is so waterlogged and towpath so eroded in stretches that the golf club is pumping out bunkers 24 hours a day to keep open.

[Starcoaster]

Perhaps if you left your mooring more often, all year round, you may experience more variety of issues, and come up with more solutions.

 

You know literally nothing about when and where I boat, what boats I boat on, and what issues I feel that I face along the way. In the last two months I have boated in areas including London, Hemel Hempsted and the K&A, not that I need to justify myself or my opinions/observations.

 

If I was looking at answering the questions from the point of view of being on a privately owned offside mooring such as the one that is my own boat's current home mooring only and never leaving it, none of the answers I gave would be relevant at all, would they, as I would never have need to set foot on a towpath, nor share one with anyone.

 

I'm not seeing any ideas from you in this thread so far either, so feel free to share your wisdom too, and hopefully you can do so without being shot down by someone with no knowledge of where you boat, or how you do it, and have your opinions heard without being told that they are not valid, or wide enough reaching, or innovative enough.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Starcoaster

[MtB]

It could be argued that boaters should not be expected to share the towpath with anyone at all. They are the only users who contribute directly to their maintenance.

 

It could be argued that all taxpayers help fund CRT but the vast majority of the other users (except possibly fishermen) make no direct contribution at all. I can't see it being much loss to CRT if they made all the towpaths private other than to licence holders and their guests!

 

MtB

[kris88]

the problem with that mike is the 8 million cart have already taken from sustrans

[churchward]

It could be argued that boaters should not be expected to share the towpath with anyone at all. They are the only users who contribute directly to their maintenance.

 

It could be argued that all taxpayers help fund CRT but the vast majority of the other users (except possibly fishermen) make no direct contribution at all. I can't see it being much loss to CRT if they made all the towpaths private other than to licence holders and their guests!

 

MtB

Oh come on let's not open that old chestnut. It is clear to anyone who looks at the facts that CRT is funded only up to a third by boating licences. So by your reasoning we as boaters should be asking nicely to use it from all those who contribute the other two thirds.

 

The premise in the OP is talking about other sources of direct funding for towpath maintenance in any case.

[MtB]

Oh come on let's not open that old chestnut. It is clear to anyone who looks at the facts that CRT is funded only up to a third by boating licences. So by your reasoning we as boaters should be asking nicely to use it from all those who contribute the other two thirds.

 

 

Not really. As I pointed out, boaters also contribute to the other two thirds through general taxation, just like non boaters.

 

Anyway I was just doing a bit of light trolling. I thought this was obvious!

 

 

MtB

[casper ghost]

I hate that horrible grey dust they keep putting onto towpaths, it just turns to muddy slop when wet and gets all over everything, so less of that please... and DOG POO........less of that too. The lovely Monty is ruined at the end by the local dog walkers who leave their dog's mess all over the path, disgusting, and shows how little some local people care about the canals.

Casp'