buyers survey,why?

[RichardH]

It is an interesting debate and my advice to any buyer would always be to have a survey.

 

We have a boat for sale which we commissioned a survey on last year for the insurance company. I show this openly to potential buyers but caveat with a recommendation to have their own survey as this is now a year old and certainly is not an avenue of redress upon me should something go wrong.

[Phil Ambrose]

i can understand all of your views ,you all obviously have forgotten more than i will ever know about narrowboating and what goes with it,my main concern is that from what i can see,you could buy a boat privately for let's just say £30000,trust the seller when he says the boat is his,then find out that it isn't because there is no certificate of ownership to prove otherwise.does anyone have any experience of this happening? and where do you stand if it does in regard to the law and proceedures of reimbursment because i would have thought a court of law would think anyone parting with such an amount of money without a bonafide reciept of ownership would be lacking in the grey matter.

Well this does happen because it happened to me when I had my previous boat up for sale on the Duck. Somebody lifted my whole advert including photos and substituted their details for mine and stuck it on Zoopla or some such. Pure fluke that a chap who was about to spend his readies saw my ad on the Duck and contacted me.

I advice? Get a survey and exercise caution because there are bad people out there.

Phil

[Machpoint005]

 

T'other side of the coin (from personal experience) - pay £1000 for a survey (Engine & Hull), gets clean bill of health, buy boat, 1 week later find it needs £20,000 spending on it, approach surveyor who says "I canot comment on anything I cannot see, I do not lift carpet or look behind cupboards, do not unscrew oil filler, etc etc - the survey is valid for the one day only, contacted a "Marine Solicitor" to be told no case as surveyor has all the 'outs' and no case to answer.

 

Not happy.

 

Point taken, but did you lift any carpets or look in cupboards? 'Engine and hull' doesn't seem to cover any internal fittings or equipment.

[luctor et emergo]

 

Point taken, but did you lift any carpets or look in cupboards? 'Engine and hull' doesn't seem to cover any internal fittings or equipment.

For a thousand pounds, I'd expect the surveyor to get naked, and do the job with a feather up his bottom....

[Naughty Cal]

For a thousand pounds, I'd expect the surveyor to get naked, and do the job with a feather up his bottom....

 

Same here.

 

Ours was £500 including the lift out and chock ashore at £100 and he was very thorough.

[Alastair]

As for the 'legal document of ownership', it is normal to ask the seller to sign a document stating that they've sold the boat to you for £x, then you both countersign it.

[Machpoint005]

...and if you can see the bill of sale for when the vendor first bought the boat, it all adds versimilitude.

[OldGoat]

What a strange thread -

Would "you" buy a house without a survey? (I think not - unless you are serial house buyer and know what to look for)

 

So what's the grizzle with a boat - rather than say "I want a survey, please" why not be specific about points that you consider important.

 

As far as I can see folks coming onto this forum seem to be more concerned with the fit out and ignore the pitfalls of a badly maintained engine, poorly sited cookers, stoves and the like. If you were buying a car wouldn't most folk examine the vehicle in detail?

 

Perhaps it's a generation problem......

 

 

[Alan de Enfield]

 

Point taken, but did you lift any carpets or look in cupboards? 'Engine and hull' doesn't seem to cover any internal fittings or equipment.

 

It was 15 years ago as well.

 

A plastic 33 foot sea going boat with twin 6 cylinder Volvo engines - £1000 to include lift out (and back in) and full engine report as hull / interior can be repaired fairly cheaply but the engines are expensive.

 

It transpired the drive legs were full of emulsified oil and both gear box's (about to sieze) were in very poor condition) and engine both Turbo's blown.

 

When questioned why was the drive leg oil not checked - answer - Did not check the oil in the drive legs as it needed a spanner to undo the dip-sick.

[nebulae]

There is a way of registering ownership .It is called registration as a British Ship.It does not matter if it is a dingy or the Queen Mary it is a British Ship so far as the law is concerned This is an absolute statement of ownership..At one time,if you needed a marine mortgage,the boat had to be registered as a British Ship.There is another scheme called the Small Ships Register.,administered by the M.C.A.You may see some boats with the index SSR and a number clearly displayed(displaying this number is a legal requirement for registered vessels).I dont know why these registration options are so rare among inland waterway boats .Otherwise,you have to rely on a paper trail of recieps etc.Unless these reciepts include one from the builder,they can only be a guide.

[Phil Ambrose]

There is a way of registering ownership .It is called registration as a British Ship.It does not matter if it is a dingy or the Queen Mary it is a British Ship so far as the law is concerned This is an absolute statement of ownership..At one time,if you needed a marine mortgage,the boat had to be registered as a British Ship.There is another scheme called the Small Ships Register.,administered by the M.C.A.You may see some boats with the index SSR and a number clearly displayed(displaying this number is a legal requirement for registered vessels).I dont know why these registration options are so rare among inland waterway boats .Otherwise,you have to rely on a paper trail of recieps etc.Unless these reciepts include one from the builder,they can only be a guide.

You can register your boat on the Small Ship Register (SSR) simply by going online. When I registered my previous boat (about 5 years ago) it cost £25-00 last for 5 years then you renew.

Phil

[Grace and Favour]

 

It was 15 years ago as well.

 

A plastic 33 foot sea going boat with twin 6 cylinder Volvo engines - £1000 to include lift out (and back in) and full engine report as hull / interior can be repaired fairly cheaply but the engines are expensive.

 

It transpired the drive legs were full of emulsified oil and both gear box's (about to sieze) were in very poor condition) and engine both Turbo's blown.

 

When questioned why was the drive leg oil not checked - answer - Did not check the oil in the drive legs as it needed a spanner to undo the dip-sick.

I think you'll find the Surveyor WAS that spanner!

[paneuro]

after reading the latest threads,i would have thought the small ship register would be a compulsory thing to have ,like a sort of log book for boats no?

[Paul C]

after reading the latest threads,i would have thought the small ship register would be a compulsory thing to have ,like a sort of log book for boats no?

 

Why?

 

There isn't a compulsory register for car ownership. DVLA registrations are merely for the registered KEEPER, not the OWNER which can be different (eg lease cars). Neither is there a compulsory register for trailers, watches, jewellery, welders, tractors, fish tanks, etc etc

[paneuro]

yes ,but when you purchase motor vehicles etc,you wouldn't accept it without the log book,just the same as you wouldn't buy a property without the deeds,it's not 100% proof of ownership but these are pretty much accepted as such when you've took the usuall finance checks etc,it's just that there is no such compulsory type of form in the boat world it seems.

[eightpot]

yes ,but when you purchase motor vehicles etc,you wouldn't accept it without the log book

I have.

 

As mentioned before, the logbook is about 0% proof of ownership. I made enquiries about the vehicle in question and undertook a "survey" ( looked it over to gauge its condition). Once satisfied I wasn't going to get burned, I handed over the readies and applied to the DVLA for a new V5.

 

About the only difference between me buying this vehicle and me buying my boat was I employed the services of a boatyard to crane the thing out of the water to allow my appointed surveyor to do his thing.

[Graham Davis]

yes ,but when you purchase motor vehicles etc,you wouldn't accept it without the log book,just the same as you wouldn't buy a property without the deeds,it's not 100% proof of ownership but these are pretty much accepted as such when you've took the usuall finance checks etc,it's just that there is no such compulsory type of form in the boat world it seems.

 

Have you looked at a V5 lately?

In BIG letters it says "THIS IS NOT PROOF OF OWNERSHIP"!!

Lots of people buy cars without sight of the V5 and get them later, also lots of people end up buying cars that the "owner" had no right to sell because they were on finance. Therefore people are advised to do a credit search on the reg number first.

 

Sorry, but you are looking for problems where they generally don't exist.

Edited February 25, 2014 by Graham Davis

[Paul C]

Plenty of people buy cars without doing an HPI check on them.

[Machpoint005]

Caveat emptor!

[paneuro]

from what i can see most of you are trying to justify the fact that there is no sort of "log book" or similar in the boat world,that's fair enough i never wanted to get into any fors or against on the issue,nobody has to explain the does or don'ts regarding buying or selling items to me,being new to this world of narrowboating when i found out there wasn't a sort of form like a "log book"or why the buyer should pay for a survey etc i asked questions regarding same and a lot of positive remarks were forthcoming,but some of you seem of the opinion that i'm having a go at the boating system,this is not the case at all,on the contarary i've found this a real eye opener to a world of friendly helpfull people,i just ask questions,the answers may seem obvious to some of you and indeed after reading the replies,i sometimes think oh yeah why didn't i realise that or whatever,just finding out things that's all.

[nebulae]

You seem to have recieved some rather mixed messages from members of the forum .Although some people will argue that a surveyor is not necesary,if you are new to boating,what are you to do .Bearing in mind that the cost of plating the hull fitting a new skin to the bottom or even replacing the engine could exeed the value of the boat,in some cases, buying without a survey must be a high risk strategy .Using a proper surveyor(plenty of recomendations on this site) and being present at the survey,seems to be the safest route,while using your own eyes of course .As to proof of ownership,if the vendor cant prove ownership,dont touch it. There are fortunately ,few cases of fraudulent sale of a narrow boat,but it is to much money to risk in the hope that it will be O.K .Paper trail,old bills reciepts,letters from B.W.builders reciepts are good.as is registration on the Small Ships Register Full.registration as a British Ship, where all pecuniary interest in the vessel has to be declared,is the only absolute guarantee of ownership.This process costs time and money,but may be worthwhile for high value boats.