Gas Hob help

[bluebug73]

Hi I am new here, I hope someone can help me a little.

 

I have just had BSS test and the examiner failed the gas hob due to no flame failure device.

 

It is a two burner Smev. I went online and bought this to replace it as it is exactly the same size.

 

 

http://www.socal.co.uk/smev-pi2232m-2-burner-hob-marine-cooker.html

 

The new unit arrived today.

 

 

I cannot visably see any difference between my old unit (4 years old) and the new unit apart from piezo ignition. What are the signs that my new unit has FFD?

 

any advice would be appricated.

 

Thanks Chris

[alan_fincher]

The FFDs, can usually be seen as a kind of vertical "spike" near the burner, that the flame plays on when it is alight.

 

It's hard to see them in that published picture, but look to be behind the burners, party obscured in the picture by part of the "wire" pan support.

 

(My assumption is FFDs at about 12 O'clock at the back on each burner, whereas the Piezo electric based igniters are at about "quarter to nine" on the left and "quarter past three" on the right).

 

If your FFDs are working, you will normally need to activate some kind of override device, (like holding down the gas knob), for a few seconds after ignition, or I would expect the flames to go straight out again.

[Rebotco]

Odd. The link you included definitely says it has flame failure device!

[philjw]

There will be a thermocouple looking like a closed tube in the region of the flame. When heated by the flame it will create a voltage and keep the gas on.

Without the flame there is no voltage and the gas shuts off. I see that the description says there is flame failure protection.

[nicknorman]

Yes, what Alan says. To précis, you would expect to see two small probes around each burner, one thin one for the ignition and one slightly fatter one (a thermocouple) for the flame failure function. Also, as Alan says, just rotating the knob shouldn't cause gas to come out. You have to press the knob in as well, whilst you light it and for a couple of seconds afterwards.

 

 

As a complication (so I wasnt going to mention it!) it is possible to have flame failure function using just the ignition electrode, relying on the fact that a burning plasma (gas flame) conducts electricity whereas air or unburnt gas doesn't, but I doubt you find hobs like this.

Edited February 21, 2014 by nicknorman

[Phil Ambrose]

OK chaps, my hob is 25 ears old, original equipment and does not have a FFD but I do have a BSC so what's this all about?

Phil

[Puddlejumper]

OK chaps, my hob is 25 ears old, original equipment and does not have a FFD but I do have a BSC so what's this all about?

Phil

That just what I was thinking

[nicknorman]

OK chaps, my hob is 25 ears old, original equipment and does not have a FFD but I do have a BSC so what's this all about?

Phil

If it really doesn't have an FFD you shouldn't have a BSC. UNLESS it was installed prior to 2000 which yours obviously was. Might be worth thinking about getting one with FFD though.

 

 

"For LPG appliances:

All the burners and pilot lights of LPG appliances installed on or after 3 January 2000 must be fitted with a device that automatically shuts off the LPG supply if the burner flame fails.

LPG appliances installed before 3 January 2000 must be fitted with a device that automatically shuts off the LPG supply if the burner flame fails on:

· the burners on catalytic appliances; and,

· appliances with continuously-burning flames; and,

· pilot light burners.

For liquid-fuelled appliances:

Flame supervision devices must be fitted to all liquid-fuelled appliances where the appliance manufacture requires such a device to be fitted."

Edited February 21, 2014 by nicknorman

[bluebug73]

Very strange as the original unit has the 'spikes' on each burner. Obviously didnt like to question the examiner as I know very little on the subject. Thanks for the help.

[Phil Ambrose]

Thanks for that Nick.

Phil

[nicknorman]

Very strange as the original unit has the 'spikes' on each burner. Obviously didnt like to question the examiner as I know very little on the subject. Thanks for the help.

The acid test would have been whether gas came out when you turned the knob on (no FFD) or whether you had to push the knob in as well (FFD fitted). If the latter, you were conned - although I suppose it is possible, though unlikely, that an extant FFD was malfunctioning.

[Alan de Enfield]

Things that passed the BSS 4 years ago can fail this year - either because the examiner interperates the 'rules' differently, or the 'rules' have changed within the new 2013 issue BSS.

 

I had things that would have failed the previous version now 'pass' and things that passed previously failed this time.

[b0atman]

checking on other sites your hob should definitely have flame failure what does it say in manual ? Is there a phone number for you to call

[bluebug73]

On the hob that failed the bss (smev 2212)I need to push in the knob for gas, light with a match but if I blow out the flame the gas still flows through. Hope I dont have the same issue with the new one.

[MtB]

On the hob that failed the bss (smev 2212)I need to push in the knob for gas, light with a match but if I blow out the flame the gas still flows through. Hope I dont have the same issue with the new one.

 

This is why the BSS bod failed it. If your hob has 'flame supervision' (as we call it nowadays), then it isn't working.

 

The gas must stop when the flame goes out even with the control know in the ON position, unless you manually override it by pressing the control know down. This is one of the BSS tests.

 

If your old one has flame supervision that has failed, it is probably repairable as the hob is still a current model and parts will be available. But given you have the new one now, it is probably just as well to fit it. The flame supervision reliability may well have been improved since you bought the past one and fitting the new one will take far less gas technician time than repairing to old one.

 

MtB

[bluebug73]

Thank you to everyone that replied for your help.

[bluebug73]

New hob now works!you cant be too safe.Thanks everyone.

[Androo]

Just a thought, A free standing gas cooker with FFD is set up for natural gas.

 

Can they all be converted to LPG? and do all natural gas cookers come with the LPG jets for swop over?

 

Also, if the cooker is to be run on LPG does, any modification have to be carried out on the oven and grill also.

 

I know that, in the Chandlers cookers already set up for LPG are much more expensive than shop bought, Currys..etc....

[Lampyrichard]

Just a thought, A free standing gas cooker with FFD is set up for natural gas.

 

Can they all be converted to LPG? and do all natural gas cookers come with the LPG jets for swop over?

 

Also, if the cooker is to be run on LPG does, any modification have to be carried out on the oven and grill also.

 

I know that, in the Chandlers cookers already set up for LPG are much more expensive than shop bought, Currys..etc....

See this recent thread for more comments on free standing cookers:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=64292

 

To answer your questions:

 

1. No. Not all household cookers can be converted because:

1A.. Not all manufacturers produce LPG nozzle kits (though many / most do)

1B. Very few domestic cookers in the UK ship with the LPG kit. Indesit are the only manufacturer I can find who reliably do this, for most you need to buy the jets as a separate kit.

2. oven and grill jets will also need changing for LPG compatible jets. How complicated this is also varies wildly between manufacturers, so checking the manual before buying is highly recommended!

[deckhand]

I learnt from this thread, ) thanks

[the grinch]

not all oven /grill need the injectors replacing to convert to LP Gas some rely on a simple alteration to the air intake although this is not common, also a hob fitted with FFD / FSD does not extinguish immediately if the gas flame is extinguished it may take 30 seconds or more to turn the gas off this is acceptable but the maximum time is 90 seconds I would be looking at replacing the thermocouple if over a minute to turn off!!

[Androo]

See this recent thread for more comments on free standing cookers:

 

http://www.canalworld.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=64292

 

To answer your questions:

 

1. No. Not all household cookers can be converted because:

1A.. Not all manufacturers produce LPG nozzle kits (though many / most do)

1B. Very few domestic cookers in the UK ship with the LPG kit. Indesit are the only manufacturer I can find who reliably do this, for most you need to buy the jets as a separate kit.

2. oven and grill jets will also need changing for LPG compatible jets. How complicated this is also varies wildly between manufacturers, so checking the manual before buying is highly recommended!

Many Thanks for the thread

[Keeping Up]

Cannon also supply LPG versions of most of their cookers; our boat cooker and house cooker are identical apart from the gas type but they go under different names which is confusing because Cannon will correctly tell you that the named domestic gas version doesn't have an LPG version. They have flame failure sensors as do any domestic cookers that are sold as suitable for use in flats.