Another eviction

[Alan de Enfield]

Many thanks Alan,

 

was going to ask for definition of the 'grades' of moorings...now I know where to look!

From the letter I received last week here will be "going forward", only 3 grades of moorings (as of 1st April 2014) these will be

 

Ashore

Leisure

Residential

[Machpoint005]

Can there be different grades of moorings within the same marina/length of canal?

[Alan de Enfield]

Can there be different grades of moorings within the same marina/length of canal?

Certainly - yes

[ctb]

Why?

I dont need to pay for upkeep to the building. Just live.

I can live hassle free and still choose a suitable location, move when I like and yes the landlord could put the price up although market value is the key. Bedroom numbers and location make the pricing structure to rentable value.

I got a boat to live sustainably. Not work more to pay for other marinas. If every penny went to a good farmer I wouldn't begrudge. But 20 marinas and 6 managers to run 1 just doesn't seem right.

When you pay70k for a house you dont pay ground rent for the land it's on, to the tune of rentable properties in the locality. You pay a maintenance fee for upkeep.

I got a house because there is something wrong with how things are being run by the waterways.

[MtB]

Really!!? You've never seen the demands for a supplimentary licence fee for CC'ing. The insistance that a CC'er should not reverse the direction of their journey, the calls for CC'ers to be prohibited from using visitor moorings, the suggestion that CC'ers should have to have GPS trackers, or any of the other rabid nonsense....astonishing!

My post was not directed at anyone in particular, it was prompted by a general feeling that there is a lack of empathy by some and a feeling of intolerance towards those getting the shitty end of the stick, while those same commentators often point out the injustice of other things that effect them personally.

Why would you assume that it was aimed at you personally? Remember Mike assumption is the mother of all cock ups.

 

 

Bloody hell, I pressed a raw nerve there didn't I?

 

Frankly I suppose yes I have seen some (but not all) of those things proposed once in a blue moon, always by the fringe nutters and they generally get dismissed by sane and sensible people.

 

And I assumed you meant me because you quoted my post at the top of yours. How stupid I am, duhhhh....!

 

 

MtB

[Alan de Enfield]

I dont need to pay for upkeep to the building. Just live.

I can live hassle free and still choose a suitable location, move when I like and yes the landlord could put the price up although market value is the key. Bedroom numbers and location make the pricing structure to rentable value.

I got a boat to live sustainably. Not work more to pay for other marinas. If every penny went to a good farmer I wouldn't begrudge. But 20 marinas and 6 managers to run 1 just doesn't seem right.

When you pay70k for a house you dont pay ground rent for the land it's on, to the tune of rentable properties in the locality. You pay a maintenance fee for upkeep.

I got a house because there is something wrong with how things are being run by the waterways.

 

Can you please explain again the above post - I cannot follow your thinking or sentances.

For example what do these mean ?

 

Bedroom numbers and location make the pricing structure to rentable value

Not work more to pay for other marinas

When you pay70k for a house you dont pay ground rent for the land it's on, to the tune of rentable properties in the locality

[Arthur Marshall]

Unfortunately, just beacuse you want to live "sustainably" it doesn't mean that everyone else owes you a favour. (Actualy, I'm not sure how anyone lives unsustainably, but there you go, it's a nice word and we'll pretend it means something for the moment). You had the luxury of living on a boat near your work, I gather cheaply, and then it ended up like the rest of us, struggling a bit to pay your bills because the guy who owned the land you sat on thought you should be paying a bit more, presumably so he could sustain himself a bit more nicely, if you see what I mean.

Perhaps you could have sold you boat and moved to a smaller one? Found a cheaper mooring? Changed your job? You obviously looked at your options and picked the best one for yourself and your family, which is good, but I still can't see where your situation is different from 90% of the working age population of this country.

[ctb]

Can you please explain again the above post - I cannot follow your thinking or sentances.

For example what do these mean ?

 

Bedroom numbers and location make the pricing structure to rentable value

Not work more to pay for other marinas

When you pay70k for a house you dont pay ground rent for the land it's on, to the tune of rentable properties in the locality

Sorry.

1. Estate agents have a criteria for how much you could achieve financially per month.

2.ripon marina had little money put forward for maintenance and repair.

3.thought that was clear enough, but, when you buy a boat you expect to pay for moorings yet I can't understand how they work the figures out. BWML stated to me it's based on the land value and facilities. Ripon had a toilet block.

York marina is cheaper and boasts all sorts of stuff.

 

I chose to get back on to land because my money was lining fat wallets. Very little went to look after the local waters and all I got for my questions was "that's just how it is"

Big companies don't care for anything more than profits.

I looked hard for somewhere else but didn't have an address anymore as the business closed down. Catch 22.

[John Williamson 1955]

In Britain, to be properly sustainable needs a good few acres of good quality land for a family, otherwise you need to use fossil fuels for heating and power.

 

The only steps towards this you can make on a boat is to burn only found or sustainable farmed wood for heating and use bio diesel in the engine. Apart from hat you should be using less energy overall because the space you are heating and lighting is smaller than most buildings. My maximum lighting power draw is about the same as the normal draw in my house living room, and in most weather, a 2 kilowatt fan heater on my boat does the job of a 32 kilowatt boiler in the house..

[ctb]

Unfortunately, just beacuse you want to live "sustainably" it doesn't mean that everyone else owes you a favour. (Actualy, I'm not sure how anyone lives unsustainably, but there you go, it's a nice word and we'll pretend it means something for the moment). You had the luxury of living on a boat near your work, I gather cheaply, and then it ended up like the rest of us, struggling a bit to pay your bills because the guy who owned the land you sat on thought you should be paying a bit more, presumably so he could sustain himself a bit more nicely, if you see what I mean.Perhaps you could have sold you boat and moved to a smaller one? Found a cheaper mooring? Changed your job? You obviously looked at your options and picked the best one for yourself and your family, which is good, but I still can't see where your situation is different from 90% of the working age population of this country.

I don't believe people owe me a favour. The majority of people at Ripon disliked the attitude of the company and the over inflated increases. Some just saw they had no choice but to pay. I chose to question their decisions.

And yes I believe I have made the right decision for me.

[John Williamson 1955]

Sorry.

1. Estate agents have a criteria for how much you could achieve financially per month.

2.ripon marina had little money put forward for maintenance and repair.

3.thought that was clear enough, but, when you buy a boat you expect to pay for moorings yet I can't understand how they work the figures out. BWML stated to me it's based on the land value and facilities. Ripon had a toilet block.

York marina is cheaper and boasts all sorts of stuff.

 

I chose to get back on to land because my money was lining fat wallets. Very little went to look after the local waters and all I got for my questions was "that's just how it is"

Big companies don't care for anything more than profits.

I looked hard for somewhere else but didn't have an address anymore as the business closed down. Catch 22.

1 Depending strongly on location. If my house was in Greater London, the rent would be at least five times what I get in the Potteries.

 

3 Land values vary wildly from place to place, and according to possible alternative uses, and allowable uses depend on the local council's planning rules. It's possible that the land at Ripon is worth much more than the land at York, so the formula used could easily give the result seen.

 

Getting back on to land and paying rent there is just as likely to be lining the wallet of a fatcat company or individual as staying on the water.

[ctb]

 

 

Getting back on to land and paying rent there is just as likely to be lining the wallet of a fatcat company or individual as staying on the water.

You are able to choose your landlord if you look around.

Here in the sticks it is easier anyway.

[Naughty Cal]

I dont need to pay for upkeep to the building. Just live.

I can live hassle free and still choose a suitable location, move when I like and yes the landlord could put the price up although market value is the key. Bedroom numbers and location make the pricing structure to rentable value.

I got a boat to live sustainably. Not work more to pay for other marinas. If every penny went to a good farmer I wouldn't begrudge. But 20 marinas and 6 managers to run 1 just doesn't seem right.

When you pay70k for a house you dont pay ground rent for the land it's on, to the tune of rentable properties in the locality. You pay a maintenance fee for upkeep.

I got a house because there is something wrong with how things are being run by the waterways.

You do if its leasehold

[Alan de Enfield]

If you want to live in a particular street you probably dont have much choice in the house or the Landlord - you pay the going rate.

If you want to live in a particular town you have a bit more choice in both houses and Landlord

If you want to live anywhere in a region / county you have plenty of choice in both Landlord and houses.

 

You have a boat - the boat is (presumably) "the house you want" so why limit yourself to living in a certain 'street', boats move, so take it where you want, or where you can afford.

 

Move to one of the other 'streets' that do appeal and meet your needs financially- maybe York ?

 

All businesses (unless a charity) are in the 'business' of making money, they will price their goods or services at a price the market wil pay - that price varies around the country and around he world - just look at the thread for 'Gas' - priced at Euro 4 in Morrocco compared to £30 here.

Look at the price of 'new' houses in the 'South' compared to the 'North'

 

Maybe I'm a bit old-school but if you cannot afford something, you dont have it, you either 'save up' or accept an alternative.

The world owes you, me or anyone else - nothing.

[MtB]

 

Getting back on to land and paying rent there is just as likely to be lining the wallet of a fatcat company or individual as staying on the water.

You are able to choose your landlord if you look around.

Here in the sticks it is easier anyway.

 

There's nothing stopping you starting your own 'fat cat company' if you don't like the ways other fat cat companies are doing it.

 

 

MtB

[John Williamson 1955]

 

There's nothing stopping you starting your own 'fat cat company' if you don't like the ways other fat cat companies are doing it.

 

 

MtB

I'm not a "Fat cat", and I've got a significant proportion of my life's income invested in the house that I'm renting out. The rental market isn't all about fat cats, nor is the moorings market. There seem to be many offside farmers' moorings about if you look hard enough.

[Arthur Marshall]

Actually, ctb comes over as pretty reasonable, so I'm sorry if the tone of my original reply caused any offence. It's all down to choice, really, and I imagine it's certainly harder to live on water with a family if you haven't got a settled mooring with all the facilities you need, including access to schools, doctors and so on, and it's therefore harder to up sticks and move. Houses generally come with these things close by. They're just not so nice to live in, and I can see why it's upsetting to have to make a decision to move on financial grounds. but it's still something that thousands of people are having to do now (especially with the bedroom tax and benefit cuts - and before you start, remember that ninety pecent of these benefits go to those in work!).

[gary955]

You do if its leasehold

In which case the mechanism for rent increases will be fixed for the entire pereod of the lease which will rarely be for less than 99 years. The ground rent will almost always be minimal, often just a peppercorn rent.

Very very much unlike the subject of this thread.

If you're using that as a justification for your argument Phylis, you really are clutching at straws

[Graham Davis]

In which case the mechanism for rent increases will be fixed for the entire pereod of the lease which will rarely be for less than 99 years. The ground rent will almost always be minimal, often just a peppercorn rent.

Very very much unlike the subject of this thread.

If you're using that as a justification for your argument Phylis, you really are clutching at straws

 

Really!

I don't know what you call "peppercorn" but I have seen Ground Rent figures in excess of £500 a year in Bristol and Cardiff, on private houses.

[mayalld]

 

Really!

I don't know what you call "peppercorn" but I have seen Ground Rent figures in excess of £500 a year in Bristol and Cardiff, on private houses.

 

We pay £15 a year on a lease that has around 950 years remaining.

 

The management company keeps offering us the freehold for a mere £1,500

[John Williamson 1955]

 

Really!

I don't know what you call "peppercorn" but I have seen Ground Rent figures in excess of £500 a year in Bristol and Cardiff, on private houses.

A`"peppercorn" rent used to be exactly that. A peppercorn had to be given to the landowner each year. As peppercorns had to be imported from very foreign parts by sailing ship, they weren't cheap... As shipping and communications improved, they became cheaper, but the rent was fixed in the lease agreement with no allowance for increases.

 

£500 per year fixed ground rent on a long lease is roughly the modern equivalent.

 

Wiki reveals that a building in Bermuda is still rented from its owner by the literal delivery of one peppercorn per year to said owner.

 

"

The Masonic Lodge of St. George's, Bermuda, rents the Old State House as their lodge for the annual sum of a single peppercorn, presented to the Governor of Bermuda on a velvet cushion atop a silver platter, in an annual ceremony performed since 1816 on or about April 23.

 

The Sevenoaks Vine Cricket Club in Sevenoaks, England, rent the Vine Cricket Ground from Sevenoaks Town Council at a yearly rent of one peppercorn. It is many years since the club paid only one peppercorn for the rent of the pavilion. The council in return, if requested, gives a new cricket ball to Baron Sackville every year"

Edited March 6, 2014 by John Williamson 1955

[gary955]

 

Really!

I don't know what you call "peppercorn" but I have seen Ground Rent figures in excess of £500 a year in Bristol and Cardiff, on private houses.

I did say OFTEN peppercorn, nevertheless your not inconsiderable £500 is still worlds away from the many thousands demanded from the subject of this thread, so therefore not a valid comparison as Phylis was asserting.

Jeez! what makes people so entrenched and combative on these type of forums?

[luctor et emergo]

 

Can you nominate a market economy that gets regulation about right, in your opinion?

 

 

 

MtB

Germany? The Netherlands? Possibly France?

 

Off the top of my head.

[Naughty Cal]

I did say OFTEN peppercorn, nevertheless your not inconsiderable £500 is still worlds away from the many thousands demanded from the subject of this thread, so therefore not a valid comparison as Phylis was asserting.

Jeez! what makes people so entrenched and combative on these type of forums?

I think you should re read my post. I didn't elude to anything!

[gary955]

I think you should re read my post. I didn't elude to anything!

Thank you Phylis I knew you'd be along with a rebuttal soon.

I did re read your post. You miss quoted ctb leaving out the qualification in his statement which was "to the tune of rentable properties in the locality" and therefore eluded to a similarity between property ground rent and marina mooring fees. You even included a banging you head on a brick wall smiley, as if to say, how could ctb be so stupid. There is no such valid similarity, ctb is quite right and I think you know that.

I accused you of "asserting" that which was possibly a bit strong, your word "aluded" is more accurate so thanks for the correction