Another eviction

[gary955]

Done properly, a boat is not a cheap way to live. It is. however, easier to cut corners and be "on the edge" in a boat, but each liveaboard needs to decide for themselves if doing so is worthwhile. In the '70s, when I was young (And foolish. Yes, I admit it.), I cut many corners on the boat. Now, I don't want to.

 

In my case, for what the boat is costing me in total per month, I could rent similar sized accommodation on land..

Are you comparing like for like though? I assume that you own your boat but are comparing the monthly cost to rented accommodation. You give your location as London. How does the cost of buying housing in London compare to the cost of your boat? maybe you have a very expensive boat. In any event I dont think this thread was originally about the cost of mooring as such, rather the impact of that cost suddenly doubling and about the unfairness of following a published complaints procedure and being asked to leave because of that. I think it was pointed out that the person concerned (sorry dont remember the name) paid the increased mooring fee in full.

[Naughty Cal]

Are you comparing like for like though? I assume that you own your boat but are comparing the monthly cost to rented accommodation. You give your location as London. How does the cost of buying housing in London compare to the cost of your boat? maybe you have a very expensive boat. In any event I dont think this thread was originally about the cost of mooring as such, rather the impact of that cost suddenly doubling and about the unfairness of following a published complaints procedure and being asked to leave because of that. I think it was pointed out that the person concerned (sorry dont remember the name) paid the increased mooring fee in full.

The original complainant was also found to be in breach of his contract with a bit of further digging. Hence his eviction. Which some seemingly still think was wrong!

[MtB]

Wasn't the person concerned also running a boat brokerage business from their boat (in blatant contravention of the T&Cs of their mooring) as well as making a general pain in the arse of themselves?

 

Or was that someone else?

 

 

MtB

[John Williamson 1955]

I bought the boat using a bank loan at the same time as I started renting the mooring. Add the two payments together, and I could rent a flat with about the same floor area. If I could get a mortgage on a small flat, the payments on that flat would be roughly the same until the mortgage rate goes up. In a few years, the boat will be be paid for, though, while the flat would take 20 years to buy.

 

If I were to be renting a mooring where I own a house, the payments on a shared ownership house, which is the nearest equivalent, would be about 20% to 30% more than the rent and loan payments added together. As it happens, the boat is costing me about three times the mortgage payment on my house, but there is no valid comparison as the house is in the Potteries, and I am currently working and living in London. (Edit to add) I also put down a 50% deposit when I bought the house.

Edited March 7, 2014 by John Williamson 1955

[Naughty Cal]

Wasn't the person concerned also running a boat brokerage business from their boat (in blatant contravention of the T&Cs of their mooring) as well as making a general pain in the arse of themselves?

 

Or was that someone else?

 

 

MtB

That's the one:)

[John Williamson 1955]

Wasn't the person concerned also running a boat brokerage business from their boat (in blatant contravention of the T&Cs of their mooring) as well as making a general pain in the arse of themselves?

 

Or was that someone else?

 

 

MtB

The London guy was. The Ripon guy wasn't

[Graham Davis]

Are you comparing like for like though? I assume that you own your boat but are comparing the monthly cost to rented accommodation. You give your location as London. How does the cost of buying housing in London compare to the cost of your boat? maybe you have a very expensive boat. In any event I dont think this thread was originally about the cost of mooring as such, rather the impact of that cost suddenly doubling and about the unfairness of following a published complaints procedure and being asked to leave because of that. I think it was pointed out that the person concerned (sorry dont remember the name) paid the increased mooring fee in full.

 

But hasn't it since been found that the London couple were not abiding by the Terms & Conditions of their mooring?

 

And how many of us does it need to be said, and have proved in the past, that overall boating anywhere is NOT cheap.

You seem to have a blinkered view of the matter!!

 

I suppose that make me a part of the nasty clan too.

Edited March 7, 2014 by Graham Davis

[Naughty Cal]

The London guy was. The Ripon guy wasn't

There will no doubt be more to that story as well. There usually is!

[MtB]

 

I suppose that make me a part of the nasty clan too.

 

Definitely. It's fine for boaters to try to ignore the terms of their contracts with CRT, but evil if CRT try to do the same.

 

Obviously...

 

 

MtB

 

.

[Naughty Cal]

We need some terms and conditions for the new Nasty Clan !

[jelunga]

From the letter I received last week here will be "going forward", only 3 grades of moorings (as of 1st April 2014) these will be

 

Ashore

Leisure

Residential

I hate that pathetic phrase "going forward". What is wrong with "in the future"?

[Naughty Cal]

I hate that pathetic phrase "going forward". What is wrong with "in the future"?

How's about, going forward into the future?

[gary955]

 

The problem comes where people, despite the prophets of doom telling them that having a boat is NOT a cheap form of housing, decide that it actually is a cheap form of housing.

 

They have missed the point that whilst it may well be relatively cheap at a particular moment in time, it is also remarkably volatile, and can easily become very expensive.

 

They also miss the point that it lacks security in terms of whether what is available this year will be available next year.

 

Unfortunately, people get into living on a boat thinking that they know better, and that the naysayers were wrong. Then they find that some way down the line, things change.

 

That is unfortunate, but it is also what could have been predicted from day one, and whilst I feel for their plight I can't see that the responsibility for that plight lies anywhere other than with them for making the choice for a risky strategy.

I think all those points have been made before and are not in dispute. Perhaps affordable housing would be a better term than cheap. Affordable housing is a very real need and all forms of accomodation legitimitly used as housing should offer the tenant some security. Knowing you have no security of tenure but choosing that option because you cant afford a mortgage doesn't make you foolish, just unfortunate. You could pour scorn on those who chose to live in the Somerset Levels for the same reasons, (after all the risk was well known and the EA is under no obligation to dredge the rivers) But few would argue that they deserve no help....Well Phylis might!

It would be a shame if boating became so elitest that no one could afford to live on boats. live aboards add colour and interest to the waterways, (the people in the recent short film elswhere on the forum seemed lovely) and in my experience the niceness of people and how interesting they are is often in reverse proportion to their wealth. It would be a shame to see all but the wealthy priced off the waterways.

[carlt]

 

Mine too. That's probably because housing is astonishingly cheap nowadays.

 

Is it?

 

The house I bought in 1983 for £4000 would be worth £11,446.40 today if house prices had matched inflation (according to the Daily Telegraph's historic inflation indicator).

 

I've just looked it up on Zoopla and it is actually worth, according to them, £115,000.

 

I've just checked it out on Streetview too and I reckon they've still got my old curtains up.

[Naughty Cal]

Is it?

 

The house I bought in 1983 for £4000 would be worth £11,446.40 today if house prices had matched inflation (according to the Daily Telegraph's historic inflation indicator).

 

I've just looked it up on Zoopla and it is actually worth, according to them, £115,000.

 

I've just checked it out on Streetview too and I reckon they've still got my old curtains up.

What did you earn in 1983 though compared to what you earn now?

[gary955]

I bought the boat using a bank loan at the same time as I started renting the mooring. Add the two payments together, and I could rent a flat with about the same floor area. If I could get a mortgage on a small flat, the payments on that flat would be roughly the same until the mortgage rate goes up. In a few years, the boat will be be paid for, though, while the flat would take 20 years to buy.

 

If I were to be renting a mooring where I own a house, the payments on a shared ownership house, which is the nearest equivalent, would be about 20% to 30% more than the rent and loan payments added together. As it happens, the boat is costing me about three times the mortgage payment on my house, but there is no valid comparison as the house is in the Potteries, and I am currently working and living in London. (Edit to add) I also put down a 50% deposit when I bought the house.

So not really like for like then. In all the scenarios you offer, the boat is actually cheaper although the monthly outgoings may be very similar. is that a fair conclusion? i never was very good at maths

[carlt]

What did you earn in 1983 though compared to what you earn now?

More than the value of the house which I bought with an unsecured 5 year bank loan rather than a mortgage.

 

Now I barely earn enough to get a 25 year mortgage for the same house.

Edited March 7, 2014 by carlt

[Arthur Marshall]

There's a theory that you can test the daftness of any phrase by inverting it. If the inverse is nonsense, so is the original. As no-one ever builds unaffordable housing, the alternative phrase is meaningless. What they mean is that any private firm will make more profit building a mansion for a rich person than a street of terraces for yer actual workers, so they will. That's the uncontrolled market economy for you, and that's what this country has voted for consistently for donkey's years (especially yer actual workers), so that's what it's got.

(Edited to add, It'll be different after the revolution...)

Edited March 7, 2014 by Arthur Marshall

[Naughty Cal]

So not really like for like then. In all the scenarios you offer, the boat is actually cheaper although the monthly outgoings may be very similar. is that a fair conclusion? i never was very good at maths

Can I come and join Gary World where boat ownership is cheap please?

 

I think my bank balance would appreciate it!

[MtB]

Is it?

 

The house I bought in 1983 for £4000 would be worth £11,446.40 today if house prices had matched inflation (according to the Daily Telegraph's historic inflation indicator).

 

I've just looked it up on Zoopla and it is actually worth, according to them, £115,000.

 

I've just checked it out on Streetview too and I reckon they've still got my old curtains up.

 

Interest rates have plummeted to one twentieth of 1983 rates since then though, and asset prices are inversely proportional to interest rates, as any fule kno. So your old house is currently undervalued.

 

Cue the property price boom just beginning if you check the stats.

 

MtB

[John Williamson 1955]

So not really like for like then. In all the scenarios you offer, the boat is actually cheaper although the monthly outgoings may be very similar. is that a fair conclusion? i never was very good at maths

No true like for like comparison is possible.

 

I *could* buy a freehold mooring and boat for about the same price as a small house or flat in a given area, if such were available, and the costs would be roughly equivalent. Also, if I buy a house, the odds are it will last a century or more, so it's unlikely I'll ever *need* to buy a new one to replace the old one as it falls apart. If I buy a boat, 30 or 40 years seems to be the average life, so if I were young and buying my first boat, I'd need to buy one or two more during my life as the old ones became unrepairable. As you say, though, the monthly outgoings are similar, and that's what most people count as the cost of their living accommodation.

 

You could also look at the situation as me hiring the boat off the bank for a few years, while renting the mooring for the same period, and in that case, renting a flat comes to roughly the same cost, depending on the cost of the boat loan, of course. The bonus in this case is that at the end of the loan period, I own the boat. Look up the Sharia law on loans to get an idea of how this could be considered to work.

[gary955]

Wasn't the person concerned also running a boat brokerage business from their boat (in blatant contravention of the T&Cs of their mooring) as well as making a general pain in the arse of themselves?

 

Or was that someone else?

 

 

MtB

I think he may of been selling a boat or boats from a laptop. Hardly running a brokeridge from the marina...unless the boats he was selling were moored in the marina. In any event I dont think that was given as a reason for his eviction was it?

As for all you little scamps revelling about being in my "nasty clan" it's a little silly but I conceed much easier than reasoned argument. For the record I just pointed out that NC made a comment that had no value other than to antagonise another poster who's own posts were a model of patience and restraint, in a word...nasty. Another word might be futile which is pretty much what all threads become once they go beyond about three pages.

[carlt]

and asset prices are inversely proportional to interest rates, as any fule kno. So your old house is currently undervalued.

 

Only if you own the asset rather than looking to buy it.

 

If housing is so cheap how come young people cannot afford to get on the property market?

 

I'm sure folk would accept a higher interest rate if house prices dropped to the point where a school leaver just going to college can afford to buy a house rather than go into student digs (and then pay the loan off by renting rooms out to his less financially canny mates).

[Naughty Cal]

I think he may of been selling a boat or boats from a laptop. Hardly running a brokeridge from the marina...unless the boats he was selling were moored in the marina. In any event I dont think that was given as a reason for his eviction was it?

As for all you little scamps revelling about being in my "nasty clan" it's a little silly but I conceed much easier than reasoned argument. For the record I just pointed out that NC made a comment that had no value other than to antagonise another poster who's own posts were a model of patience and restraint, in a word...nasty. Another word might be futile which is pretty much what all threads become once they go beyond about three pages.

Didums!

 

Would you like your teddy bear back oh and the dummy now?

 

Surely most brokers sell boats from their laptops. So yes he was running a brokerage from his mooring which is against the terms and conditions he signed up for.

 

I'm not sure how much more black and white you would like it to be. Then again I'm sure you would probably argue black was white!

[MtB]

 

If housing is so cheap how come young people cannot afford to get on the property market?

 

Err... this is the exact reason I bought a boat to live on in 1977. Nothing changes.

 

Anyway if base rates returned to 15% then house prices would fall to peanuts again. But youngsters would still not be able to buy them because mortgage rates would once again be sky high and lenders would refuse to lend at sensible multiples, because house prices are falling. Been there, got the tee shirt too.

 

The main problem seems to me that youngsters seem unable to climb the income ladder so easily and quickly these days.

 

MtB